Paladin kits question (and limitations)

Mornmagor

1) Is it possible to create paladin kits that allow evil alignment upon creation, or is it hard coded to lawful good, like druids that cannot be elves even if you try to mod it?

2) Fallen Paladins - Can you create a paladin kit that doesn't fall on 6 rep, or you need to delete the whole fallen paladin associated files or info from the game? And how do you do either of those?

I'm trying to find the file associated with paladin fall but i'm having trouble at the moment, any info would be appreciated.

Was trying to recreate something like the variable paladin kits of different alignments from dragon magazine, but i'm kinda new to this.

Is it possible however with paladin kits, or you can only do so with fighter ones?

Grammarsalad

1. I think so. Asaik you just need to enable other alignment options while creating the kit. (btw with tobex you can create elven druids, halfling paladins, etc.)

2. I think this is hardcoded but I wonder if that will change in bgee as it seems that the blackguard might be a paladin kit.

I could be wrong though. for a really ugly workaround you could set the kits reputation at some level above the limit. (I think that would work). you could also try asking on gibberlings or spellhold for other options

Tanthalas

It won't be hardcoded anymore.

Whatever solution that was used to prevent Blackguards from falling will be available to modders too.

Mornmagor

@Grammarsalad @Tanthalas I think it is indeed impossible to prevent paladins from falling in the current edition, but you can change the number of reputation that causes them to fall, if i'm not mistaken. So, technically, you could set a Blackguard or Despot as a paladin kit that falls at 1 or 2 reputation.

The thing, who knows how to tweak that? i can't find anything regarding the file associated with it, no matter where i look. Maybe a .cre one?

Bah :<

Grammarsalad

Hm my guess would be a 2da. I'll check the iesdp when I get a chance

Avenger_teambg

Tanthalas said:

It won't be hardcoded anymore.

Whatever solution that was used to prevent Blackguards from falling will be available to modders too.

Lol, leaking info! Now you just decided a lengthy debate about what class Blackguards are in

Tanthalas

@Avenger_teambg

That was revealed already in the AMAA reddit thing.

Grammarsalad

I checked. Couldn't find it...

Mornmagor

Yeah me neither. Oh well

Cheers anyway.

Mornmagor

Alright, the paladin kits can be modded to be evil with no problem. They don't fall because of alignment. The only alignment switch that causes them to fall is the Hell Trials, and it's not the alignment switch that is causing the fall, but probably a script(?), for taking an evil route.

You can even mod them to have extra spells or different ones in their spellbook, creating various types of paladins.

But i still haven't found what the game uses to make them fall at reputation 6, and what needs to be changed in order to either tweak that or avoid it.

An info would be appreciated from whoever knows.

P.S. We are talking about the vanilla game, not enhanced one

Mornmagor

I found the action causing the fall, it's action 281 RemovePaladinHood() and action 283 is RegainPaladinHood()

I didn't find the trigger that causes action 281 though.

So now, i don't know if i should just make a script that gives back paladinhood as soon as it is lost, or find and change the script/trigger that enforces paladinhood loss.

I consider doing the first, i think it puts reputation at 10 again? Not sure. Maybe i'll need something to put rep back at a higher than 6 value (since you fall at 6), if it doesn't do automatically.

@Avenger_teambg, do you think you could help me a bit with scripting that pwease?

I can figure out so far :

IF
FallenPaladin(Myself)
ReputationLT(Myself,??) // or should it be ReputationGT and what number? or is it not needed at all?
THEN
RESPONSE #???
ActionOverride(Myself,RegainPaladinHood())

do i need to put anything else under the reputation lines? I don't know what values to put either is it response 100?

Any help would be appreciated :x

Edit : Or maybe if i have a paladin kit, and want the script to work only for that kit, and the code name for it is AAA then should it be :

IF
Kit(Myself,AAA)
FallenPaladin(Myself) // or maybe this won't work because i can't be both the kit and the fallen paladin?
ReputationLT(Myself,7(?)) // or some other value?
THEN
RESPONSE #100 // (??) maybe not 100? Not sure of this
ActionOverride(Myself,RegainPaladinHood()) or maybe ActionOverride(Myself,AddKit (AAA) )

END

I'm really confused

The first would work for any paladin i guess, but how do i do it to work only if the character is the specific kit AAA? ;x

Edit 2: No, it doesn't work, with or without the rep, although i stuctured it with the proper blanks and whatever. And although the Action.ids is in the override folder. Maybe some more files are needed there?

/hopelessly confused.

Avenger_teambg

You won't be able to regain paladinhood without raising reputation back to the normal level.
RegainPaladinGood just removes the 'fallen paladin' flag and reapplies the kit. But if the reputation is low, it will fall again.

Mornmagor

@Avenger_teambg

It didn't even give the status back to lose it again, but i think i understand what you say.

The thing is, how do i set rep at acceptable levels again? With ReputationGT and myself,number) in the IF section, or the THEN section?

Hm, nothing works o_O

I thought RegainPaladinHood() raised rep back to 10 by default.

Can't understand what i'm doing wrong, or probably i don't know how to script :x

Avenger_teambg

It is weird. As far as i see, now:
if rep is < 10 then it sets rep back to 10.
if rep>=10 then it gives back the abilities.

And i'm not sure it will ever fix the fallen paladin flag.


Probably try using it twice

Mornmagor

Does trigger.ids need to be in override as well?

I ever tried putting the script to baldur.bcs, but still it won't work.

Maybe i should put it to baldur25.bcs?

Oh well, i give up.

P.S. The thing is, i can't even get it to work.

I make the script, and then test to see it with a paladin for instance. He falls, that's it, nothing happens, he's a fallen paladin. I can't get the script to give back anything. The rep stays as low as it was before.

I am probably doing something wrong in the execution, like what files are needed, where do i write the script, what file, i don't know what else there is to blame.

People on the internet say this script works, by applying it to BALDUR.BCS :

IF
FallenPaladin(Player1)
OR(3)
Alignment(Player1,LAWFUL_EVIL)
Alignment(Player1,NEUTRAL_EVIL)
Alignment(Player1,CHAOTIC_EVIL)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
ActionOverride(Player1,RegainPaladinHood())
END

This supposedly works, but i can't get it to work.

Yeah, and it doesn't matter if trigger.ids is in the override or not.

Also a question, because where i fail is probably the basics: How does the game read scripts? Just by putting a script file in the override folder? Or by writing it to Baldur.bcs? Or i need to do something else for the script to apply to the game actually?

Something to note: When i apply the script to the BALDUR.BCS file, then when i open to read it, instead of Player1, it has [INANIMATE.21] and if instead of player1 i put Myself it corrects it with [INANIMATE.HUMANOID] instead, does this indicate anything?