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Best Mod for Combing BG1, 2, and expansions?

ArbitraryNerdArbitraryNerd Member Posts: 14
edited October 2012 in New Players (NO SPOILERS!)
Hi all,

I've never played any of the original BG games (played Dark Alliance and didn't like it, never looked back -- wish I had). I've recently picked up both games and expansions (actually waiting for Throne of Bhaal to come in) and am planning on playing through.

I've been looking at some mods and don't know if I plan on using too many. What really interests me is combing the games as a seamless unit/uploading characters.

Usually, I see TuTu mentioned, though I've also heard of something referring to a "Trilogy" as another option.

Which is the best way to combine all the experiences together in your opinions? Also, are there any other must-have mods while I'm waiting?

Thank you!

Comments

  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    edited October 2012
    BGT (Trilogy) is the one that lets you play BG1 and BG2 as one game. Tutu lets you play BG1 using the BG2 engine, but doesn't combine the games.
  • ArbitraryNerdArbitraryNerd Member Posts: 14
    Does trilogy allow you to play BGI using the BG2 engine as well? If so, is there any reason to NOT use Trilogy?

    I'm just not sure why anyone would go Tutu if Trilogy is so seamless, but I really want to make the best decision overall.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited October 2012
    If you want seamless integration, use BGT. Your NPCs will make the transitions exactly as you left them in BG1 as long as they are in your party. If you add NPCs in BG2 that were not in your party during transition in BG1 then you find the default version of them, according to your average party level.

    Also you'll be able to play the entire game using TOB engine.

    You'll need both games installed with their expansions before installing BGT.

    Also you'll need BG2 Fixpack and I recommend you use TobEx and Widescreen mod as well.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited October 2012
    They both steamroll over some of the more specific, finer details of the BG1 engine. BG1 should stay in BG1 engine, BGII should stay in BGII engine. The games are more attractive that way (fitting their respective art style, instead of inter-mingling) and more importantly the gameplay is as it is originally intended for both. There's my two bits, but I'm sure everyone will tell me I'm being too sensitive or some such.
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Quartz said:

    They both steamroll over some of the more specific, finer details of the BG1 engine. BG1 should stay in BG1 engine, BGII should stay in BGII engine. The games are more attractive that way (fitting their respective art style, instead of inter-mingling) and more importantly the gameplay is as it is originally intended for both. There's my two bits, but I'm sure everyone will tell me I'm being too sensitive or some such.

    Nah, I can relate. Although I appreciate a lot of the stuff BG2 changed or added, I prefer BG1 aesthetics, not to mention cool features like charmed dialogue and the ability to dual class into specialist mages. :)
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    edited November 2012
    But both can be done in a bg2 engine as TobEx proves... And 1pp helps a lot with the character styles :)
    Post edited by mlnevese on
  • rattenfleischrattenfleisch Member Posts: 6
    Baldur's Gate Trilogy (BGT) is the only way to combine everything, so BGTuTu isn't an option. Another (very important) thing that speaks against TuTu is the fact that it changes the game in too many ways. The weapon proficiencies assigned to the NPCs are ridiculous and a lot of the "fixes" are questionable changes, distorting the gaming experience even more than the different engine does.
    Despite the fact that BGT introduces content compared to TuTu (the transition between BG1 and BG2), it's way more faithful to the original game. TuTu is a complete disaster in this regard.

    The "BiG World" makes installing BGT incredibly easy, allowing you to choose from many different mods and even recommends some depending on your preferences.
    http://kerzenburg.baldurs-gate.eu/downloads.php?id=2

    I would advise against a combination on the first playthrough, however. Leave the game as it was originally intended.
    If you can't stand the low resolution (I personally really can't play it in 640x480 anymore), try the Widescreen Mod (http://www.gibberlings3.net/widescreen/).
    The broken GUI can be fixed with this: http://athkatla.cob-bg.pl/viewtopic.php?t=3257
    Quartz said:

    They both steamroll over some of the more specific, finer details of the BG1 engine. BG1 should stay in BG1 engine, BGII should stay in BGII engine. The games are more attractive that way (fitting their respective art style, instead of inter-mingling) and more importantly the gameplay is as it is originally intended for both. There's my two bits, but I'm sure everyone will tell me I'm being too sensitive or some such.

    No, you're right. The only reason for a conversion to the BG2 engine would be the group behaviour in tight places (especially considering the fact that BG1 has >two< *annoying* mines!) and the availability of half-orcs, barbarians, monks, sorcerers and wild mages (not the other kits, see below). But the rest, from small things like the dialogue style to more drastic game changers like the summoning limit or the proficiencies, is so different that the gaming experience is noticeably changed.
    The fact that you can grow familiar with your class and *then* decide to specialise in a kit, basing your decision on your experience and preferences (the same with weapon proficiencies by the way) just feels more right and "as intended" than forcing those decisions on you at the beginning.

    So, to sum it up, the only mod I'd recommend is the Widescreen Mod. It makes the game less ugly and doesn't change the gameplay.
    I only consider BGT if I want to play a barbarian, sorcerer, wild mage or monk. Kits are for BG2.


  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    Having played both BGT and Tutu, I also prefer the former. The main advantage with Tutu could be said to be that it keeps the two installs separate, and if you run a game with a lot of mods this will help spare your override folder and prevent extensive load times. Also, the transition between BG1 and BG2 as it's handled in BGT is very non-canon and may not appeal to purists.

    Having said that, I generally like having my install as one game. If you modify files on your own, this also means that you just have to do it once rather than for both games. And where BGT combines the world maps of both games, Tutu obviously has one for each. As @rattenfleisch mentions, Tutu also changes some details in the game - for one thing the BG1 soundsets are lost, which is a shame.
  • FishFish Member Posts: 38
    Quartz said:

    They both steamroll over some of the more specific, finer details of the BG1 engine. BG1 should stay in BG1 engine, BGII should stay in BGII engine. The games are more attractive that way (fitting their respective art style, instead of inter-mingling) and more importantly the gameplay is as it is originally intended for both. There's my two bits, but I'm sure everyone will tell me I'm being too sensitive or some such.

    @Quartz you are so right. It is unnatural to play BG1 in BG2 Engine, but I find that I can't part with the TAB key. Everything else, I'm ok with but gameplay without the "blue light" is frustrating. I'm playing through my second round in BG1 loaded in BGT and I'm afraid I've sold out and can't SHFT+TAB my way back.
  • bigdogchrisbigdogchris Member Posts: 1,336
    Quartz said:

    They both steamroll over some of the more specific, finer details of the BG1 engine. BG1 should stay in BG1 engine, BGII should stay in BGII engine. The games are more attractive that way (fitting their respective art style, instead of inter-mingling) and more importantly the gameplay is as it is originally intended for both. There's my two bits, but I'm sure everyone will tell me I'm being too sensitive or some such.

    How do you feel about BG:EE then, since it uses some of the same techniques at BGT and Tutu?

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited November 2012

    How do you feel about BG:EE then, since it uses some of the same techniques at BGT and Tutu?

    Good question. I have a few doubts about BG:EE, and a few fears, but for the most part I'm pretty satisfied with what I've seen thus far. There are a few people on the team, and the beta testing team (notably @AndreaColombo) who have respect for the original, vanilla Baldur's Gate however, and from what I've heard they have done a good job cracking the whip.

    For instance, take the BGII walk speeds. In TuTu, wolves were slow, and bears couldn't catch you worth a damn, for instance. These are just a few monsters that were severely, sloppily handicapped. However, in BG:EE they tweaked all of the walk speeds in the game so that characters/monsters move relative to our characters. Wolves are fast again, etc.

    This is just one of the things they have nitpicked at to try and make it as true to the vanilla game as possible given that they are using the BGII engine. They have a fudged a few things up, such as character animations, spellcasting voices, and the HUD. With the character animations however, they have made the shields proper in their BG1 form, and I believe the helmets as well. They have implemented a mod that makes the paperdolls their BG1 form (1PP), which is a huge blessing. They fixed the dual-wielding bug or whatever, so people will be able to fairly easily mod the BG1 sprites right back in.

    Another prominent issue in my mind is dealing with the weapon proficiencies being different, more thorough. I'm really hoping that they decide to make it like Icewind Dale; more specific than vanilla BG1, but not as painfully specific as BGII. Because seriously, long swords bastard swords scimitars katanas short swords two-handed swords? Awful, it's painful, and given that there are less equipment options in BG1, and far, far less level ups, it could potentially be a huge problem where a character was previously (in BG1) able to proficiently handle a great weapon, but with their adjusted proficiencies in BG:EE they will be stuck with crappy weapons. (For example take Kivan. In BG1 he is proficient in Pole-Arms; Spears and Halberds. If they separate those two weapons, are they going to stick him with a Spear because he is originally found with a Spear? Likely. The only magical Spear in BG1 is +1, and a Cursed +3. That's potentially a huge nerf to Kivan.) This is why I say IWD would be good: Great Swords (Two-Handed and Bastard), Long Swords (Katana, Long Sword, Scimitar), Short Swords. That's much better, but not as ridiculous as BG1 where "Long Swords" meant you could use practically half of the best weapons in the game. So it will be interesting to see how they re-calculate things ... Now I'm sure the devs have more sense than TuTu where every other fighter was dual-wielding, so I think they'll do well. We shall see, however...

    Honestly, the only things I'm seeing thus far that are really fudged in my opinion: The spellcasting voices and HUD. The spellcasting voices is sloppy and "oops, oh well too bad don't care" a la TuTu. Fortunately, it's not a huge detail and so it isn't the end of the world. The HUD is pretty bizarre, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I think it's very pretty, but not necessarily fitting to the BG1 environment. Still, I was expecting them to be super lazy and just touch up the BGII HUD, so upon seeing a replacement I was overcome with joy, even if it is a touch out of place.

    Another thing to be nervous about is kit balancing. Potentially, Totemic Druid can rape everything in BG1 from very early levels. (Summons are immune to Normal Weapons) But somehow, I'm sure they will be fixing that, and various other kits that are broken in a similar manner.

    So overall? Been very nervous about the BG:EE project, admittedly. But upon stalking these forums I have discovered they are putting in 90% of the effort required to keep it feeling like BG1, so I'm pretty excited. There's gonna be a thing here and there I'll be pissed about, but otherwise it will be a fantastic upgrade to BG1 Vanilla. Compare that 90% effort to the 20% or so from TuTu, and maybe 35% from BGT; Overhaul is doing pretty good.
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