An ideal cleric

Winterisle

So I'm thinking of going through the whole trilogy of BG with a cleric (no dual-class), but I am very unsure of how to make him. I want him to go well with the whole Bhaalspaw storyline and be effective enough too, without overpowering. I'm sure a lot of people have done or are currently doing runthroughs with clerics, so I would be grateful for any advice:

1. Race: I made a dwarven cleric not long ago and the combination went well. I'm not sure if there's a better option or if it simply doesn't matter. What race do you recommend?

2. Kit: I've tried out the Priest of Helm and it's quite useful. Specially the +3 sword. What kit do you find more useful or/and more fit por the protagonist?

3. Stats: Appart from the obvious, I think I should give him an acceptable amount of charisma (something like +15) because of shops and because it fits a charismatical spiritual leader. I think from there it depends on personal playing style, if I'm going to be up front (high strength and constitution) or in the back (probably a higher dexterity).

4. Weapon proficiencies: I haven't got a lot of problems with this point. I think I'll stick to maces and hammers, sword and shield style.

So, any advice or experiences?

JumboWheat01

1) Well, Dwarves do have those tasty shorty saving throws, but their main benefit, 19 Constitution, is wasted on a pure cleric, who only gains benefit from 16 Constitution, no more. Plus if you want Charisma, Dwarves loose out on 2 points here, making it harder to get the 15 Charisma, much less 16. Elves are probably the best choice, with 19 Dexterity (which improves AC no matter the armor you are wearing, and their 17 max Constitution won't affect you much at all, since, as said above, 16 Constitution is all you need. Unless you go Fighter/Cleric, of course. Avoid Humans unless you're planning to dual, and Half-elves. Gnomes should be considered pretty much only if you plan on being a Cleric/Mage, for the free Illusionist specialization. Half-orcs can be Cleric/Thieves, so I would recommend them over Gnomes, despite the shorty saving throws of gnomes.

2) I've grown fond of the Priest of Tyr for its debuff cleansing ability. It's very handy to pull something out like that when you absolutely need to. Really, though, any kit would work for the Cleric, while Oghma is the most worshiped at Candlekeep, for obvious reasons, the Sword Coast has a large amount of gods worshiped. You don't need to conform 100% to what Candlekeep has. Obviously, it should be one that fits your alignment. Remember, you don't HAVE to be evil to be a Priest of Talos, they've fixed it to "proper" Faerun alignment restrictions for clerics, you could be a Chaotic Neutral cleric and worship Talos. In fact, it's the only kit you could be if you wanted to be Chaotic Neutral.

Tyr - Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Neutral Good
Lathander - Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, True Neutral
Helm - Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral
Talos - Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil, Chaotic Neutral.

Due note, that the temples you get as bases in the second game are still based on alignment, not who you worship.

Good - Lathander
Neutral - Helm
Evil - Talos

The only reason to not use a kit is for a multi-class combo.

3) You want enough STR to hold onto your heaviest armor and shield, which I think is about 15 or 16. Dexterity should always be as high as you can physically make it, Constitution as high as needed, and Wisdom should be fairly high as well. You need at least 9 Intelligence I think in order to use scrolls and wands, even if they're priest scrolls and wands. Such a stat requirement usually means that Charisma needs to eat it.

4) Yeah, by the time you get through a lot of the series, you'll have all your points filled out. At the start, I recommend maces and slings, maces because you can get the Stupifier extremely easy, and slings because it's your only ranged weapon option of serious note in the first game. Start filling out your points as you feel like from that point on. Do note, that if you use your sling more, Sword and Shield style DOES NOT give you any benefit while you're slinging, but will if you use a melee weapon.

jackjack

Just as an aside, while 19 CON on a Dwarven Cleric doesn't get you more than the +2HP/level that 16 gets you, it will still give you another point to the shorty saving throw bonus (actually only need 18 CON).

JumboWheat01

Jack's got a point, and of course, there is the tasty factor of hitting 20 Constitution for the built-in regeneration. Not wasting spell slots on yourself for healing can be a good thing to go through. Half-orcs can go for this as well, though they of course don't have the Shorty Saving Throws.

Winterisle

And would you be ok with a shorty bhaalspawn? I mean, i'm just finishing SoD with a gnome illusionist/thief. I'm a gnome and dwarf fan.
Thanks for mentioning the priest alignment fixes, I had no idea! I'll probably go for Talos then.

JumboWheat01

Nothin' wrong with bein' a shorty. Heck, Halflings are probably my favorite race to be. I'm just a nutter for Halflings.

...I should totally do a Halfling Cleric now. I avoided them because of their -1 Wisdom, but really, the three Wisdom books you can get in the game should make up for it. Curse you restartitis! I just made a Necromancer!

jackjack

Yeah considering the tomes and that >18 Wisdom is useless on anyone except Bards (barely perceptible Lore bonus), I never worry about that particular drawback.

JumboWheat01

18+ Wisdom isn't ENTIRELY useless on a priest class, it gives them more spell slots. I just have to get out of the 3e+ spell dc thing.

jackjack

JumboWheat01 said:

18+ Wisdom isn't ENTIRELY useless on a priest class, it gives them more spell slots. I just have to get out of the 3e+ spell dc thing.

I thought bonus spell slots capped at 18 Wisdom. Huh.

catsarekacamp

Also note, that there's no AC difference between 18 and 19 Dex, just another +1 to ranged.

ReadingRambo

I humbly urge you to reconsider multi classing as a dwarf fighter/cleric.

Winterisle

ReadingRambo said:

I humbly urge you to reconsider multi classing as a dwarf fighter/cleric.

That would be my obvious powergaming choice: the classic dwarven fighter/cleric. It a great idea, but what I plan is to use a pure cleric so I can really use that role without simply hammering my way through.

JumboWheat01

catsarekacamp said:

Also note, that there's no AC difference between 18 and 19 Dex, just another +1 to ranged.

True, but with the Dex book, you can shove that 19 to 20, and that machine thingy can boost it to 21, to give you more AC than any other race. Quite tasty that.

jackjack said:

JumboWheat01 said:

18+ Wisdom isn't ENTIRELY useless on a priest class, it gives them more spell slots. I just have to get out of the 3e+ spell dc thing.

I thought bonus spell slots capped at 18 Wisdom. Huh.

I'm basing my info off of Playithardcore's "guide." Possibly wrong, but it's where I learned a lot of the in-and-out bits of information for the series.

PK2748

Actually you can get the same 21 dex with a Halfling, who also gets shorty saving throw bonuses and a +1 with slings instead of swords and bows that a cleric is not permitted.

jackjack

If you got it off of Playithardcore, I'm inclined to believe it. That place is pretty on the ball.
Also, hey, thanks for the archive link! I've been missing that site since it went down.

JumboWheat01

PK2748 said:

Actually you can get the same 21 dex with a Halfling, who also gets shorty saving throw bonuses and a +1 with slings instead of swords and bows that a cleric is not permitted.

Which is why I suddenly have the urge for a halfling cleric. Maybe one of Talos, like Winter is planning. I've always done the "goody-goody" clerics and gods. Sure, I'd go Chaotic Neutral, but a follower of a Chaotic Evil God of Storms would be a very interesting switch.

ReadingRambo

Dwarves are so cool though!!

Winterisle

Ok, I've nearly made up my mind:


Race: Dwarf OR Halfling, though I've never been mad for the second.

Kit: Priest of Talos.

Stats: STR: 14/15 (+1 with the tome)
DEX: 15 (+1 again)
CON: 19 (20 with the tome. Great saving throws and a load of hitpoints
WIS: 17 sounds right. With the three tomes in BG I can get to 20. 16 would probably be fine too.
INT: 10/11, to use wands, as Jumbowheat01 suggests.
CHA: 15

So I basically need a 90 roll. Not the best of news...

Weapon proficiencies: idc

JumboWheat01

Low 90s aren't TOO hard, just require a bit of patience.

You do dwarf, I'll do halfling. That way we're not twinsing it.

ReadingRambo

Dwarf gets access to the returning throwing hammer sold in Trademeet, which would help keep a cleric in the back slinging spells. It's easy to edit the items enchantment level to match the sling of everard, which I do for flavor purposes. On a cleric they do comparable damage without fighter APR.

But a halfling with a sling is pretty cool too.

Winterisle

JumboWheat01 said:

Due note, that the temples you get as bases in the second game are still based on alignment, not who you worship.

Good - Lathander
Neutral - Helm
Evil - Talos

The only reason to not use a kit is for a multi-class combo.

So if I make a chaotic neutral Priest of Talos I'm stuck with the Temple of Helm?? That really makes no sense at all . I hope they fix that or something.

userunfriendly

archer cleric. all spells, and slings grandmastery. (I turned jaheira into one)

and i turned aerie into a priest of talos mage. no problem...

elminster

Winterisle said:

JumboWheat01 said:

Due note, that the temples you get as bases in the second game are still based on alignment, not who you worship.

Good - Lathander
Neutral - Helm
Evil - Talos

The only reason to not use a kit is for a multi-class combo.

So if I make a chaotic neutral Priest of Talos I'm stuck with the Temple of Helm??

If you make a Priest of Talos you would be approached by Stormherald Nallabir (from the Talos temple). Same goes for the Helm and Lathander kits (who would have a representative of Helm/Lathander's temples approach accordingly). Tyr clerics would be treated like any general cleric (which is based on alignment).

Winterisle

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. This is my cleric

Wowo

Priest of Lathander is far and away the most useful kit as the kit abilities are useful throughout the saga.

Race doesn't matter too much, go with whatever fits for you. Human probably fits a Bhaalspawn the best.

Stats don't even matter too much though I'd recommend 18 str, 18 dex, 9 con, 10 int, 18 wisdom and the rest in charisma.

Mace and sling to start, go find the Stupifier for BG1.

magisensei

Has anyone tried the new kit cleric of Tyr - its kit spells look quiet powerful if you are a more melee type cleric (adds bonuses to hit and damage) - combined with cleric buffs to make him into a fighter you could potentially have a very powerful melee cleric; plus its other spell removes confusion, berserker, fear etc and other mind enchantments and in addition provides protection for 1 turn - haven't seen a spell like that since IWD unless you use spell mods.

Now we just need a temple of Tyr in the temple district.

JumboWheat01

The debuff purge is great on Tyr's kit, but it's divine might-like ability is... well... 2 rounds is just not long enough. Plus adding attacks, like what Lathander and Helm do, is a bit better of a boost.

kensai

In my opinion there are two IDEAL\CHEESY clerics and both are duals.

First is Archer>Cleric dual with focus on slings. Clerics on high difficulty and/or with SCS are quite fragile to be honest and should avoid melee. So he can support allies and deal damage from range.
If you want a cheesy build just make a multi Archer\Cleric with Shadow Keeper amd install Item Revisions mod, he has a component "remove weapon restrictions from multi classes".
I just so love my archer\cleric with longbow and arrows, best cleric ever.

Second build is pure cheese. It's a Wild Mage > Cleric dual. In BG2 wild mage can always cast their Sequencers\Chain Contingency from their Reckless Dweomers. They always casts without wild surge! (But your next spell is 100% wild surge)
So all you need is 1 lvl spell Reckless Dweomer (which is added to your spellbook automatically) and to memorise every Sequencer\Contingency spell you met!
Just imagine - Chain Contingency with 3 Devas\Storm of Vengeance.
Want more cheese? You can memorise Wondrous Recall...

Zilber

Half-orc clerics can start with 19 Str, which is all types of giddy in a solo run, also faster than shorties. Dwarves get to regenerate and a lot of shorty saves, Elves' drawback is only a drawback for fighters, don't know if the charm/sleep resistance was already fixed, Halflings get a bonus to slings, and bonus to fear as well as shorty saves.

The rest make less sense for single class clerics.

gorgonzola

kensai said:

In my opinion there are two IDEAL\CHEESY clerics and both are duals.

First is Archer>Cleric dual with focus on slings.
...............................

Second build is pure cheese. It's a Wild Mage > Cleric dual.
................................

I will add Priest of Lathander11->Mage.

All the relevant clerical spells, up to 1 lev7 slot and the Boon twice a day with it's +1APR on top of DW with 25STR, maxed DMG roll and IH. 6 good APR for 22 rounds.
When is not casting or using the Boon he can do some real damage with a sling and an oil of speed, like 50-60DPR.
In a character that level up Just a little behind a single class mage, has almost all the clerical spells that an Aerie can put in her sequencers and contingiences, only few combinations involving lev7 spells are prevented.

Fardragon

Wild mages aren't permitted to dual class under unmodded rules.