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XP Adjustment for NPC's you have met before in the game feels like Cheating.

Hi there

I just realised that if you had , for instance, a level 2 NPC in your party and then dropped him for another npc , it turns out that if you come back for the first one his XP level adjusts to yours. To me it feels like cheating, or metagaming.

The npc in question was Garrick, I was level 2 with approximately 4000 xp when I left him for branwen and went to nashkel mines. When I came back and picked Garrick once again, at level 3 and about 8000 xp , garrick turns out to have reached the same by standing in the tavern!

I know that "ToB-like" npc leveling is cool, but this adjustment for npc's you had met before in the game (the game itself, not expansions) feels very artificial.

semiticgoddess

Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    Do you think he spent all that time sitting around in a tavern, hoping for the almighty Kid to return and bless him with activity?

    No.

    He's out getting stuff done every day. He just happens to check back in at that same tavern every now and then. Pure coincidence you met him there again when you did.

    Pteranmf2112semiticgoddess
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,280
    edited June 2016

    Do you think he spent all that time sitting around in a tavern, hoping for the almighty Kid to return and bless him with activity?

    No.

    He's out getting stuff done every day. He just happens to check back in at that same tavern every now and then. Pure coincidence you met him there again when you did.

    That is a possibility, but rpwise I don't believe that everyone gains 2 or 3 levels easily in a week or two . If I met garrick back in SoD and he were level 10, I would be okay. I just believe that in the same chapter it feels too EASY and spoils the atmosphere of BG.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    DJKajuru said:

    That is a possibility, but rpwise I don't believe that everyone gains 2 or 3 levels easily in a week or two .

    Be thankful he didn't gain more than you did. Wouldn't that be embarrassing?

    Pteransemiticgoddess
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    To be honest, there's very little about how experience works that I can justify from a roleplaying perspective. The fact that NPCs level up when not in your party seems pretty reasonable in comparison to, say, the fact that Khalid starts at level 1 despite being an experienced adventurer, or a fighter levelling up because a thief they happened to know picked a lock.

    From a gameplay perspective... it's a change, certainly. But personally, I think I like it. It lets you be a bit freer with swapping around party members.

    Pteranronaldomf2112
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    So you had Garrick in your party kicked him out and he leveled up when you added again - thats odd I though npcs that left the party did not adjust levels anymore if you added them later.

    If you think about it for a moment some things about npc leveling is a bit odd. Jaheria and Khalid are supposed to be experienced adventurers they should not be level 1 NPCs.

    Imagine for a moment you lost a npc and needed a new one - here you are at lets say level 5+ or so and you want a mage - you run over to the Friendly Arms where you left a level 1 Neera and viola she is still level 1 but you are all at level 5+ so how is this level 1 mage going to do to help you in your time of need, with only 1 spell (well 2 spells for Neera) and 4 hit points.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,280
    Guys, although I have negative feelings towards this change, I'm open to all opinions and since this is a forum I might reply with a disagreement because this is a discussion after all. There are no correct ways of playing the game, and if I dont like this change I can indeed use the console and set the npc's XP back to what it used to be.
    However, I stand by my principles that it doesn't feel dynamic .

    @Jarrakul , @magisensei. , I'm a bit out of my comfort zone with it because that has never really bothered me - take level 1 neera to durlag's tower with your 7th level party and she'll level up fast enough tp become useful ( not to mention the use of wands).
    I've always felt that khalid and jaheira were supposed to be more experienced, but to me wasnt much of a problem either since they acted as if they were better than their original levels. Same for level 1 edwin, maybe he simply didn't use all his powers at the time. If it bothered the majority of players I suppose I can keep using the console to fix it for myself.

    JuliusBorisov
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,773
    Ultimately the rationale is simply to let people switch around characters without feeling like they're weakening the party by letting in underleveled characters. I think that's sufficient justification.

    JuliusBorisov
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Also, NPCs will never go over 32,000 XP when recruited. This is less than 25% of BG's XP cap, so when it comes to late game recruiting, NPCs can actually be *less* experienced than they used to be at that point.

    mf2112JuliusBorisov
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,198
    It's amusing how 10 years later people still complain over the same game vs. RP issues.

    BG (or DnD) is nothing but a representation. More than that, it's a representation that's meant to be PLAYED. With GAME MECHANICS in it. Compromises have to be made.

    You like some, you hate some. You just hated some.

    semiticgoddess
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    No its just a playing style and its yours, bringing it to our attention and having a discussion about it is part of forum and its enjoyable to read different ideas about the game and how it is played. If you don't like it adjust it thats what makes BG great to play everyone has a slightly different style.

    So if you add a NPC and kick them out they still level up? They shouldn't. Going to have to check that out. If you enjoy playing in your way the easiest way to do it is meet everyone, have them join you for a moment before releasing them and they will stay at their level. Of course this is much easier to do in the earlier chapters before reaching chapter 3 or later chapters where NPC are automatically adjusted when they meet you but you don't have to take those NPCs with you and just stick with those you meet in the earlier chapters or use a mod to bring those NPCs that are in later chapters into chapter 2 so you an meet them all of course you can use console to do this as well without modding as you said.

    Of course I would wonder about the sanity (of the PC do you have a low WIS and INT ;) ) of anyone that would bring a level 1 Neera (or any level 1 NPC) into Durlags tower. We don't usually get there until there is a natural break in the story usually after revisiting Candlekeep and running from the flaming fists in order to clear our names. A little jaunt out of the city is just what the party needs to refocus and plan not realizing that they would get into the mess at the tower.

    Of course I think having a level 1 NPC going with you to the tower instead of slowly and painstakingly suffer from gathering xp from smaller encounters almost a cheesy way to level a low level NPC. You have to do it the hard way to really appreciate leveling. ;) Before anyone says "but Durlags is hard to do" yes it is somewhat but all the xp is sort of concentrated in the tower so leveling in this way is almost cheesy.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769
    For my RP style, this is a convenience. Before, if I picked up a level 2 character, and my party was level 5, I'd immediately save and quit. Then I'd pull up 'Keeper and set his XP to match the party, restart the game and level him up.

    We used to do the same in PnP. If someone couldn't play for a while, when he came back, his character would be on par with the party. We'd pass it off as "off killing orcs" or something. We'd found that mixing levels in a party was more annoying than fun, so we corrected for it.

    mf2112JuliusBorisov
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