Fair enough, I agree we need a bloodthirsty, and preferably extremely promiscuous female character. Basically a more sadistic version of Safana. That would be totally awesome. They have heavily implied that they will have an evil, female thief in BGII:EE so hopefully she'll be naughty too :P
Jeez, @Quartz, did Shar-teel kill your dog and beat up your sister?
Surely, as gentleman of the Realms, we can find a better word to describe women we don't like other than 'whore.' That's an ugly word with too many implications.
Monty and Shar-teel both have their strengths and weakness (although I agree that Monty's voice set is far superior to Shar-teel's).
But I'm wondering why @HaHaCharade is packing his group with so many heavy-armor melee based fighters? If your PC is a fighter AND you're taking Dorn, then surely taking both Shar-teel AND Monty is overkill? It gives your group a very narrow focus.
The point isn't power balance or better functional party, it's different playthrough for fun, i have to say, i'm very inclined now to play a dual-class Xzar.
@Brude - Yes. Yes she did. She killed all the War Dogs, despite the fact that they were already afflicted with Sleep, how unnecessary is that? And she got hit with Chaos and started slashing away at Imoen. This has scarred me for life.
On a serious note, what insult do you want me to use? Why does it bloody matter? Where I come from (California, US), we use random insults to insult randomly. I mean nothing by it, don't read so far into it.
However, she does legitimately piss me off because she is a sexist pig. Which means her character is well played; if she bothers me, and she is meant to be a non-charismatic character (which is true, her Charisma score is low), then BioWare did a good job. Is my opinion explained enough now? I don't like her. To everyone who CAN stand her, good for them, although I don't understand how, considering a third of the time I click her she feels the need to remind me that "men are pathetic."
@Brude nothing personal but maybe you're in need of some therapy.
By the way, does anyone know why all the insightful, like, agree and promote points have been removed from everyone? even the name calls have been erased.
@Quartz Fair enough. I think it's an ugly word, sends a bad message, and makes you seem angrier than you probably are. And even if you're using "random" insults "randomly," I have a hard time believing you'd use the word 'whore' to describe women you don't like while in mixed company. (Also, I'm from California too, so there's that).
@kamuizin This will work better if you don't get personal so quickly.
@Brude - Done it a few times, but only in front of mixed company of *friends,* not strangers, it's true. My friends understand that I have a colorful vocabulary.
Also I agree kamuizin's post was, in fact, personal. The "nothing personal" clause was kind of a joke to me. I do agree with what I think he was TRYING to say though, that you shouldn't try to get all offended so fast when someone insults a fictional character.
@Quartz At the risk of beating the horse here, I wasn't getting offended on Shar-teel's behalf. I was surprised that you seemed to spew that much vitriol toward a fairly innocuous video game character.
More than that, though, I think freely using such 'colorful vocabulary' sets an uglier tone for the forum. I think it's off putting and might -- although I can't pretend to speak for them -- it might just make the women who post here wince inwardly, if nothing else.
I mentioned this because we've always been on friendly terms, and I enjoy reading your insights. It wasn't meant as a personal criticism or attack, more of a "Dude, WTH? Not cool" sort of thing.
@kamuizin I'm seeing everyone's insightful, agree, like points, but the quote button is now gone. I wonder if they're updating the site, because now there are Facebook and Twitter buttons.
@Quartz Oh, come now. While they're both chauvinists, Eldoth is far more of a whore than Shar-Teel.
I never followed the path to "redeem" Viconia in the romance. I always roleplayed her as an evil Drow who saw the pettiness and pointless bloodshed of Chaotic Evil Lolth, as well as her tyrannical hold on the majority of Drow societies. I know they wrote her as a conflicted anti-villain, but I managed to resist following that path in the romance dialogues. I wouldn't describe her as exceptionally evil, but she is evil in the sense that she despises weakness, has a cynical disdain for goodness, and enjoys inflicting suffering upon those she deems deserving. I found her story about taking revenge upon Roran Midfallow and his low-life brothers as a satisfying confirmation of her evilness. Then again, it's all based on your perspective and how you roleplay her.
@Brude Sigh. Look, I'm 18, the rest of this forum is like 25-40. I've been doing my best to act mature because I enjoy that these forums are mature, and for once people can say things to spark passionate debate rather than a flame war. First good-sized forum I've ever seen that's like that.
And please, yes, do not speak "on the behalf of women." They don't need to be spoken for. If a woman wants to get mad at me for it she can go ahead, she can do that herself. They are not weak. And I know that's not what you were saying, or even implying, at all. But the same way that me calling someone a "whore" as a half-joke half-insult can be taken as looking down on women, so can your "defenses" be taken the wrong way as looking down on women. I hope no one takes issue with this paragraph, I'm merely making a point with examples, not actually trying to start a gender-oriented flame war, apologies.
Besides, I hear people throw around "dick" and similar male-oriented insults all the time and I don't take it personally. There's no point in that ... if people want to get offended, they will get offended, and that's their fault, and they can enjoy being miserable. I don't see the issue here. The point is, my comment wasn't meant as sexist at all, and if anyone wishes to take it that way, that is their perogative. In the end I don't care, because it wasn't my intent and my conscience is clear.
On top of that, I don't even see whore as a female-oriented insult. It seems to be directed at women more often for some stupid reason, but I've thrown it at men too. As @Mortianna (quite aptly) points out, Eldoth is a total whore ... and so are his real-world parallels.
Thank you for the compliment, I enjoy your existence on these boards greatly as well. Now, if you could kindly dial back the needless whining, I will attempt to dial back the unnecessary, unwise roughness.
Also @Mortianna, I think your post is totally interesting and a legitimate point. The "frowning on weakness" and not being foolishly Chaotic Evil like the rest of Viconia's kin is a great point, and a true one at that. Just look at her stats ... 15 Intelligence 18 Wisdom? Yeah, she isn't exactly stupid. She saw that the worship of Lolth encouraged foolish bloodshed and rebelled because she was insightful enough to know it was all pointless. That's definitely part of her story, and you can choose to emphasize that she still be evil but not foolishly so.
Wow, this thread is full of interesting ideas. I never thought of turning Xzar into a Cleric, but it opens up a lot of possibilities. Currently, my party was going to be:
PC Assassin Dorn Viconia Montaron Xzar Edwin
But now I'm wondering whether to switch Viconia out for someone else, maybe Shar-Teel or Eldoth. I kinda liked the idea of running two mages, though, since I hardly ever did that (because my outstanding play style always sucked).
@Quartz I'm a bit late in the game here but Montys HP bonus is irrelivant when you compare him to a dual classed Shar-Teel. She still ends up with more HP & can reach x4 backstab. She doesn't need the gauntlets of ogre power either so they're freed up for another character.
If you don't get her because of her personality alone then that's fine but she is the better fighter/thief.
I plan to have her in my BGEE party (hopefully the cap will be raised so she can reach 7/9) & have her use a short sword single weapon style. She'll outclass Monty by a mile. I've always thought of her as a fighter/thief, the kind who powerstabs her foes into chunks while laughing madly away. She's chaotic evil so I can't picture her having any issue with doing something underhanded to win. I'm also going to have Xzar & hope to dual him at/to 7/9.
@HaHaCharade Will Shar-Teel have pips in Scimitar in EE? I assumed she'd be either longsword/short sword or bastard sword/short sword.
More HP depends on whether or not you save/reload your level ups. I do, but plenty of people resist that temptation. In which case, Monty could easily end up with more sadly. Depends on the player there though. He has far better saving throws. He isn't standing around being awkwardly bad for 7 levels (hooray for dual-classing!). I dunno, people put too much emphasis on the end result over how they do the whole game ... I feel like Montaron is great the whole game. The "better at level cap" trend irks me because it ignores how well a character fairs for a large portion of the game.
That said, yes, Shar-Teel is pretty much a better fighter/thief in the end, tally everything up. If meta-gaming means everything to you, and it's totally cool to be crap for 70k EXP, then okay. Enjoy. I think you have good points mind you but your attitude that Montaron is total crap ("she'll outclass Monty by a mile") just because he's slightly outclassed from metagaming that isn't apparent to the average player is quite silly. And before anyone says "how is it not apparent?" How many newbies seriously want to dual-class? It's confusing and intimidating.
@Brude - Too many fighter types is never overkill my friend! Fighter types are where kick ass parties are at. IMO your party should consist of as many fighters as possible and by dual-classing Xzar here as @Quartz and I have discussed, you eliminate another purely utility character (single classed cleric) enabling you to add another fighter while maintaining two mages for some ridiculous firepower.
@Quartz - So Halberds for my main a good idea in ur opinion or u think something else?
@Eudaemonium - Kagain is a must for evil parties, give him Gaunts of Dex and he's a moving wall with his ridiculous health. Kagain has 100% find traps too... As in... You just run him through the dungeon triggering everything and then let him regenerate -- lol.
@Quartz - @HaHaCharade - I used Kagain on my last playthrough, and he *was* pretty indespensable. My party was Kagain, Shar-Teel, Eldoth, Viconia and Edwin. I think Shar-Teel and Eldoth would have killed each other eventually, but I never got that far. I think I was on Chapter 5 when I got distracted and never went back.
Regardless, Kagain is pretty amazing. I was just looking for something a bit different this time. Of course, I have to take Edwin, because he's my favourite character.
This will be completely offtopic and yes, I'm aware of that but this thread is the first time I've seen the idea of using the Helm of Opposite Alignment on an Npc. I think kamuizin suggested using it on Dorn for good aligned parties. This has me wondering: will an alignment switched Npc still leave at opposite rep? Because I have more than one evil candidate whom I'd like with me @ 20rep. Dorn, Xzar and Tiax would each of them make lovely additions to my end-game good party. in regards to the OP, good quarterstaves are easier to come by all throughout the saga. If you want a bit of freedom in deciding your quests and not rush to that one weapon available at X spot just pick staves. the range means you still hit a char from one square away and you literally stumble upon good staves every couple of hours ingame Now if I were to make a full evil(no neutral) party, I'd go for xzar monty dorn viconia and tiax. edwin is just too arrogant and despite his special money-making ability, Eldoth's misogynist comments rub me as wrong as Shar-Teel's do Quartz.
@Mortianna, in fact viconia never did that, she never take revenge in Roran Midfallow and his sons, cos those events never happened, later in the romance she assumes that she set up the whole history to impress the Char Name, she says that she just trade sexual favors for the post part of the places she has gone to survive, and even then, some of her caled true stories are still pretty hard to believe.
@neleothesze, i believe that the alignment/reputation banters are triggered by a mechanic in the game that take in account the alignment and the reputation, the banter will be the same probally (an viconia with the helmet of opposite alignment leaving a 1 rep party sayin they're to soft (a bit uncoherence but passable). I'm not sure, so if someone with the right tools could open an NPC file to evaluate this that would be better.
@neleothesze, I have never used Tiax in a party. Though he is... rather amazing in terms of personality. I just find that he comes too late in the game (though mods can fix that, to be sure). I understand that he has exceptionally low wisdom for a cleric, and this hampers him somewhat. What's your experience with Tiax?
@kamuizin I wouldn't mind the fact that the banters don't match as long as I get to keep at least one of the NPCs I mentioned in a mostly good-aligned party (the main thing is that while I really want to go through the first BG:EE playthrough with all the 3 new characters and see their comments all the way to the end... I'd rather not kill peasants to lower the rep It feels so cheap.)
I don't know how it would play out with Dorn, but with Xzar (if mages could use it... so this is mostly a theoretical thing) and Tiax it feels plausible - if not morally right - that you'd force them to wear it. Monty is (imo) the only thing standing between Xzar happily turning a whole village into zombies when he's in one of his less lucid moods and Tiax could summon a ghast and decimate a small town if Cyric demanded it.
@Eudaemonium With BG1NPC you can pick him up in Beregost which makes it incredibly useful in shaping his thieving skills. Not to go all fangirl but despite having low wisdom he's one of the most useful characters ingame... And I'll explain. The smaller number of cleric spells can be rectified with the Ring of Holiness (and I never end up using all the spells at every level anyway so that is a no-issue for me) and if you're like me and want to try all sorts of party setups he's 2 must-have characters in one: Healer/Buffer and Thief. That leaves a lot more room for party setups. Want 4 mages? Sure, why not? Go for it, you still have a fighter slot and Tiax. Want 4 fighters? Sure why not? Go for it, you still have a mage slot and Tiax. Is your mage missing a Wand of Paralyzation? Have Tiax call a ghast. Nobody to tank basilisks (and I think sirines)? Have Tiax call a ghast. Mages Dimension Dooring all over the place. Tiax helps with some traps. I especially like him in 'all types of rogues' parties: PC some-kind-of-thief/ Coran(Fighter/Thief)/ Imoen(Thief/Mage)/ Tiax(Cleric/Thief)/ Monty(Fighter/Thief)/ Safana(Thief or Thief/Mage with Tome)
A trap? I got a trap. He got a trap. He got a trap... Everybody got traps!
He's all the utility spells and abilities you need wrapped in one (admittedly insane) package. But similarly to Xzar, his dialogue is just incredibly funny (as opposed to other evil characters). His character selection sound bits are not annoying even after a full playthrough and that's saying something I think I guess it also comes down with how often you've found yourself struggling to make room for another character you wanted in your party but couldn't fit in due to the must have utility classes. If the answer is 'often' then you might see his appeal. If the answer is rarely, then yes, he's average. Yes, his weapon selection is small... and you probably won't go all Rambo and have him backstab with a staff even if that is a legitimate (and extremely painful option).
@kamuizin Actually, I think it's the other way around. She made up the part about trading/selling sexual favors, but the incident with Roran was true. She fled south to Amn after taking her revenge on Roran and his sons in Beregost, soon after finding herself tied to a stake by the followers of Beshaba. Here's a Forgotten Realms Wiki that gives a summary of her history.
@neleothesze, Wow! Thanks! I'm definitely going to have to try Tiax soon. Sadly, my next playthrough will be on iPad, so I'm not sure how viable he's going to be (unless someone starts being able to mod it). I'm really hoping that Dorn can be picked up early-ish.
I kind of like the idea of Tiax as a utility thief (though backstabbing with a quarterstaff is amusingly appealing), since my PC will be an Assassin and the woeful number of thief points they get means I'll have to really specialise (probably Hide in Shadows + Move Silently, and then Detect Illusion). The reason Cleric!Xzar appeals to me is because of the whole utility class aspect, since it would mean doing a playthrough without needing Viconia. Tiax now also seems viable too as a thief surrogate. Plus, as you rightly say, his personality is fantastic, much like Xzar's (I love his "Montaron! I... I never loved you!" The intonation is wonderful).
I really hope BGII:EE adds more interesting evil characters, having to do every run with Korgan, Viconia and Edwin gets a bit old, as awesome as they are. Dorn will be there, which is someone, but that still leaves an empty slot until ToB, and even then makes the team super fighter-heavy.
"Longsword is what she'll have, which covers scimitars, I just called it scimitar in my party breakdown since she'll be using Drizzt's one"
I thought BG:EE will be using BG2 proficiencies i.e. Longsword Proficiency gives proficiency in Longswords and only longswords, Scimitars is a separate proficiency...
"Longsword is what she'll have, which covers scimitars, I just called it scimitar in my party breakdown since she'll be using Drizzt's one"
I thought BG:EE will be using BG2 proficiencies i.e. Longsword Proficiency gives proficiency in Longswords and only longswords, Scimitars is a separate proficiency...
@Quartz - So Halberds for my main a good idea in ur opinion or u think something else?
Yeah, I think Halberds would do pretty nicely. You can't argue too much with 1D10 weapons. You could, however, still go for Two-Handed Swords. I know you have Dorn, but there is a Two-Handed Sword +3 and Spider's Bane both. They are both fantastic weapons, so ...
Alright so @neleothesze, I loved your post, and I think it is good that you came in and elaborated on the use of Tiax, 'cuz a lot of people have a hard time with that. But I'm going to go all opinion (rather than fact) on you now:
But similarly to Xzar, his dialogue is just incredibly funny (as opposed to other evil characters). His character selection sound bits are not annoying even after a full playthrough and that's saying something I think
Similarly to Xzar? They are both insane Chaotic Evil but that's the only connection I see. Xzar is sporadic and random, Tiax is self-obsessed. I just don't see them on the same level ... Tiax' sound bits are almost all the same: In third person, something about how Tiax is going to rule the world. Xzar on the other hand, legitimately sounds like an entirely insane person, the way very, very few sound bits actually go together. I dunno, they both have cool voice files but I don't think they're on the same level, at all. Also, his character selection sound bits got old for me about 10 minutes in. The only one of the main six (selected, action) that I enjoy to this day is "Tiax moves! Make way!" the rest of them get old soooooo fast for me. >.<; I really like his selected rares though, and a lot of his remarks in locations such as forests.
Oh, and about his actual usefulness ... I pretty well agree with you, except what really bothers me about him is his 16 Dexterity. That's pretty low for a Thief. Best way to take care of it is give him a Tome and equip Kiel's Buckler, thus putting him at 18. Then give him Staff Mace so that he can constantly wield that buckler. But that's a pretty big hassle. That said, Tiax is an excellent target for Drizzt's Armor.
@Quartz I don't think Monty is crap, if he & Shar-Teel were in BG2 I'd choose Monty. Shar-Teel is just the better fighter/thief in the context of BG1. I've used both of them in different parties alot.
Monty is a powerful fighter/thief for the reasons you mentioned & an easier choice, Shar-Teel just makes a better fighter/thief if you're willing to put in the effort. In standard BG I dual her at level 6 fighter so she can obtain x4 backstab, that makes it only 40,000 XP to surpass her first class & regain her abilities. Which isn't hard (with the same amount of XP had she remained a single class fighter she'd only be level 7).
The tome, buckler & Drizzt's armor are all well spent on Tiax, regarding the staff mace - you may no longer need to bother since it's very likely they'll be adding some clubs. Drizzt's armor is an ideal choice for any thief dual or multi (bar thief/mage naturally).
@HaHaCharade as @Oxford_Guy said it's a seperate proficiency. Short swords are great on Shar-Teel though, lower speed factor which works well with backstabing. Halberd is probably a good choice for your PC but you never know what they might add.
Comments
Surely, as gentleman of the Realms, we can find a better word to describe women we don't like other than 'whore.' That's an ugly word with too many implications.
Monty and Shar-teel both have their strengths and weakness (although I agree that Monty's voice set is far superior to Shar-teel's).
But I'm wondering why @HaHaCharade is packing his group with so many heavy-armor melee based fighters? If your PC is a fighter AND you're taking Dorn, then surely taking both Shar-teel AND Monty is overkill? It gives your group a very narrow focus.
For my own biases, I have to say: Eldoth > Xzar.
On a serious note, what insult do you want me to use? Why does it bloody matter? Where I come from (California, US), we use random insults to insult randomly. I mean nothing by it, don't read so far into it.
However, she does legitimately piss me off because she is a sexist pig. Which means her character is well played; if she bothers me, and she is meant to be a non-charismatic character (which is true, her Charisma score is low), then BioWare did a good job. Is my opinion explained enough now? I don't like her. To everyone who CAN stand her, good for them, although I don't understand how, considering a third of the time I click her she feels the need to remind me that "men are pathetic."
By the way, does anyone know why all the insightful, like, agree and promote points have been removed from everyone? even the name calls have been erased.
@kamuizin This will work better if you don't get personal so quickly.
Also I agree kamuizin's post was, in fact, personal. The "nothing personal" clause was kind of a joke to me. I do agree with what I think he was TRYING to say though, that you shouldn't try to get all offended so fast when someone insults a fictional character.
More than that, though, I think freely using such 'colorful vocabulary' sets an uglier tone for the forum. I think it's off putting and might -- although I can't pretend to speak for them -- it might just make the women who post here wince inwardly, if nothing else.
I mentioned this because we've always been on friendly terms, and I enjoy reading your insights. It wasn't meant as a personal criticism or attack, more of a "Dude, WTH? Not cool" sort of thing.
@Quartz Oh, come now. While they're both chauvinists, Eldoth is far more of a whore than Shar-Teel.
I never followed the path to "redeem" Viconia in the romance. I always roleplayed her as an evil Drow who saw the pettiness and pointless bloodshed of Chaotic Evil Lolth, as well as her tyrannical hold on the majority of Drow societies. I know they wrote her as a conflicted anti-villain, but I managed to resist following that path in the romance dialogues. I wouldn't describe her as exceptionally evil, but she is evil in the sense that she despises weakness, has a cynical disdain for goodness, and enjoys inflicting suffering upon those she deems deserving. I found her story about taking revenge upon Roran Midfallow and his low-life brothers as a satisfying confirmation of her evilness. Then again, it's all based on your perspective and how you roleplay her.
And please, yes, do not speak "on the behalf of women." They don't need to be spoken for. If a woman wants to get mad at me for it she can go ahead, she can do that herself. They are not weak. And I know that's not what you were saying, or even implying, at all. But the same way that me calling someone a "whore" as a half-joke half-insult can be taken as looking down on women, so can your "defenses" be taken the wrong way as looking down on women. I hope no one takes issue with this paragraph, I'm merely making a point with examples, not actually trying to start a gender-oriented flame war, apologies.
Besides, I hear people throw around "dick" and similar male-oriented insults all the time and I don't take it personally. There's no point in that ... if people want to get offended, they will get offended, and that's their fault, and they can enjoy being miserable. I don't see the issue here. The point is, my comment wasn't meant as sexist at all, and if anyone wishes to take it that way, that is their perogative. In the end I don't care, because it wasn't my intent and my conscience is clear.
On top of that, I don't even see whore as a female-oriented insult. It seems to be directed at women more often for some stupid reason, but I've thrown it at men too. As @Mortianna (quite aptly) points out, Eldoth is a total whore ... and so are his real-world parallels.
Thank you for the compliment, I enjoy your existence on these boards greatly as well. Now, if you could kindly dial back the needless whining, I will attempt to dial back the unnecessary, unwise roughness.
Also @Mortianna, I think your post is totally interesting and a legitimate point. The "frowning on weakness" and not being foolishly Chaotic Evil like the rest of Viconia's kin is a great point, and a true one at that. Just look at her stats ... 15 Intelligence 18 Wisdom? Yeah, she isn't exactly stupid. She saw that the worship of Lolth encouraged foolish bloodshed and rebelled because she was insightful enough to know it was all pointless. That's definitely part of her story, and you can choose to emphasize that she still be evil but not foolishly so.
PC Assassin
Dorn
Viconia
Montaron
Xzar
Edwin
But now I'm wondering whether to switch Viconia out for someone else, maybe Shar-Teel or Eldoth. I kinda liked the idea of running two mages, though, since I hardly ever did that (because my outstanding play style always sucked).
If you don't get her because of her personality alone then that's fine but she is the better fighter/thief.
I plan to have her in my BGEE party (hopefully the cap will be raised so she can reach 7/9) & have her use a short sword single weapon style. She'll outclass Monty by a mile. I've always thought of her as a fighter/thief, the kind who powerstabs her foes into chunks while laughing madly away. She's chaotic evil so I can't picture her having any issue with doing something underhanded to win. I'm also going to have Xzar & hope to dual him at/to 7/9.
@HaHaCharade Will Shar-Teel have pips in Scimitar in EE? I assumed she'd be either longsword/short sword or bastard sword/short sword.
That said, yes, Shar-Teel is pretty much a better fighter/thief in the end, tally everything up. If meta-gaming means everything to you, and it's totally cool to be crap for 70k EXP, then okay. Enjoy. I think you have good points mind you but your attitude that Montaron is total crap ("she'll outclass Monty by a mile") just because he's slightly outclassed from metagaming that isn't apparent to the average player is quite silly. And before anyone says "how is it not apparent?" How many newbies seriously want to dual-class? It's confusing and intimidating.
@Quartz - So Halberds for my main a good idea in ur opinion or u think something else?
Regardless, Kagain is pretty amazing. I was just looking for something a bit different this time. Of course, I have to take Edwin, because he's my favourite character.
PC Figher/Druid
KAGAIN or Dorn
MONTARON
VICONIA
XZAR
EDWIN
I realise my PC will have to be neutral but the rest will be evil.
in regards to the OP, good quarterstaves are easier to come by all throughout the saga. If you want a bit of freedom in deciding your quests and not rush to that one weapon available at X spot just pick staves. the range means you still hit a char from one square away and you literally stumble upon good staves every couple of hours ingame
Now if I were to make a full evil(no neutral) party, I'd go for xzar monty dorn viconia and tiax. edwin is just too arrogant and despite his special money-making ability, Eldoth's misogynist comments rub me as wrong as Shar-Teel's do Quartz.
@neleothesze, i believe that the alignment/reputation banters are triggered by a mechanic in the game that take in account the alignment and the reputation, the banter will be the same probally (an viconia with the helmet of opposite alignment leaving a 1 rep party sayin they're to soft (a bit uncoherence but passable). I'm not sure, so if someone with the right tools could open an NPC file to evaluate this that would be better.
I don't know how it would play out with Dorn, but with Xzar (if mages could use it... so this is mostly a theoretical thing) and Tiax it feels plausible - if not morally right - that you'd force them to wear it. Monty is (imo) the only thing standing between Xzar happily turning a whole village into zombies when he's in one of his less lucid moods and Tiax could summon a ghast and decimate a small town if Cyric demanded it.
@Eudaemonium With BG1NPC you can pick him up in Beregost which makes it incredibly useful in shaping his thieving skills. Not to go all fangirl but despite having low wisdom he's one of the most useful characters ingame... And I'll explain. The smaller number of cleric spells can be rectified with the Ring of Holiness (and I never end up using all the spells at every level anyway so that is a no-issue for me) and if you're like me and want to try all sorts of party setups he's 2 must-have characters in one: Healer/Buffer and Thief. That leaves a lot more room for party setups.
Want 4 mages? Sure, why not? Go for it, you still have a fighter slot and Tiax.
Want 4 fighters? Sure why not? Go for it, you still have a mage slot and Tiax.
Is your mage missing a Wand of Paralyzation? Have Tiax call a ghast.
Nobody to tank basilisks (and I think sirines)? Have Tiax call a ghast.
Mages Dimension Dooring all over the place. Tiax helps with some traps.
I especially like him in 'all types of rogues' parties: PC some-kind-of-thief/ Coran(Fighter/Thief)/ Imoen(Thief/Mage)/ Tiax(Cleric/Thief)/ Monty(Fighter/Thief)/ Safana(Thief or Thief/Mage with Tome)
A trap? I got a trap. He got a trap. He got a trap... Everybody got traps!
He's all the utility spells and abilities you need wrapped in one (admittedly insane) package.
But similarly to Xzar, his dialogue is just incredibly funny (as opposed to other evil characters). His character selection sound bits are not annoying even after a full playthrough and that's saying something I think
I guess it also comes down with how often you've found yourself struggling to make room for another character you wanted in your party but couldn't fit in due to the must have utility classes. If the answer is 'often' then you might see his appeal. If the answer is rarely, then yes, he's average. Yes, his weapon selection is small... and you probably won't go all Rambo and have him backstab with a staff even if that is a legitimate (and extremely painful option).
I kind of like the idea of Tiax as a utility thief (though backstabbing with a quarterstaff is amusingly appealing), since my PC will be an Assassin and the woeful number of thief points they get means I'll have to really specialise (probably Hide in Shadows + Move Silently, and then Detect Illusion). The reason Cleric!Xzar appeals to me is because of the whole utility class aspect, since it would mean doing a playthrough without needing Viconia. Tiax now also seems viable too as a thief surrogate. Plus, as you rightly say, his personality is fantastic, much like Xzar's (I love his "Montaron! I... I never loved you!" The intonation is wonderful).
I really hope BGII:EE adds more interesting evil characters, having to do every run with Korgan, Viconia and Edwin gets a bit old, as awesome as they are. Dorn will be there, which is someone, but that still leaves an empty slot until ToB, and even then makes the team super fighter-heavy.
I thought BG:EE will be using BG2 proficiencies i.e. Longsword Proficiency gives proficiency in Longswords and only longswords, Scimitars is a separate proficiency...
Alright so @neleothesze, I loved your post, and I think it is good that you came in and elaborated on the use of Tiax, 'cuz a lot of people have a hard time with that. But I'm going to go all opinion (rather than fact) on you now: Similarly to Xzar? They are both insane Chaotic Evil but that's the only connection I see. Xzar is sporadic and random, Tiax is self-obsessed. I just don't see them on the same level ... Tiax' sound bits are almost all the same: In third person, something about how Tiax is going to rule the world. Xzar on the other hand, legitimately sounds like an entirely insane person, the way very, very few sound bits actually go together. I dunno, they both have cool voice files but I don't think they're on the same level, at all.
Also, his character selection sound bits got old for me about 10 minutes in. The only one of the main six (selected, action) that I enjoy to this day is "Tiax moves! Make way!" the rest of them get old soooooo fast for me. >.<; I really like his selected rares though, and a lot of his remarks in locations such as forests.
Oh, and about his actual usefulness ... I pretty well agree with you, except what really bothers me about him is his 16 Dexterity. That's pretty low for a Thief. Best way to take care of it is give him a Tome and equip Kiel's Buckler, thus putting him at 18. Then give him Staff Mace so that he can constantly wield that buckler. But that's a pretty big hassle.
That said, Tiax is an excellent target for Drizzt's Armor.
Monty is a powerful fighter/thief for the reasons you mentioned & an easier choice, Shar-Teel just makes a better fighter/thief if you're willing to put in the effort. In standard BG I dual her at level 6 fighter so she can obtain x4 backstab, that makes it only 40,000 XP to surpass her first class & regain her abilities. Which isn't hard (with the same amount of XP had she remained a single class fighter she'd only be level 7).
The tome, buckler & Drizzt's armor are all well spent on Tiax, regarding the staff mace - you may no longer need to bother since it's very likely they'll be adding some clubs. Drizzt's armor is an ideal choice for any thief dual or multi (bar thief/mage naturally).
@HaHaCharade as @Oxford_Guy said it's a seperate proficiency. Short swords are great on Shar-Teel though, lower speed factor which works well with backstabing. Halberd is probably a good choice for your PC but you never know what they might add.