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Help with NWN 1 Build [Basic Campaign]

Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
edited June 2016 in Off-Topic
I know this is off-topic for Beamdog forums but I feel comfortable here so thought....what the Hey!!

Cleric 16-Rogue 3-Monk 1 [No prestige classes, Blindfighting or Tumble]

My concept is to begin with Monk then take Rogue at levels 7/12/18. I am going to avoid the Dex build 'just because' and I think a mild Strength build with Dual-wielding [Kamas] will be enough for the Basic Campaign. There will be an XP penalty only at level 19-20. I am hoping to complete most of Chapter 1 solo and then choose a companion, leaning towards Grimgnaw just because that might be interesting....

My Cleric [Strength/Trickery Domains] will hopefully exploit an Ace-in-the-hole tactic of Max Buffing/Improved Invisibility/Silent Spell after casting Silence[Extended] on self + some Trap-setting...??????

Strength-------------14
Dexterity------------14 (15)
Constitution----------12
Intelligence-----------14
Wisdom--------------14 (18)
Charisma-------------10

Leveling Guide:
Lvl1~Mnk1(28pts)~ [Cleave, Evasion] DODGE, 2WPN-FIGHTING {Heal 3,Lore 4,Persuade 4} +17pts
Lvl2~Cleric1(5pts) ~[Strength/Trickery] {Concentrate 4,Lore 1,Spellcraft 3} +14pts
Lvl3~Cleric2(5pts) ~WEAPON FOCUS; KAMA {Lore 1, Concentrate 1} +17pts
Lvl4~Cleric3(5pts ~DEX+1 {Lore 1, Concentrate 1} +20pts
Lvl5~Cleric4(5pts) ~{Lore 1, Concentrate 1} +23pts
Lvl6~Cleric5(5pts) ~AMBIDEXTERITY {Concentrate 1} +27pts
Lvl7~Rogue1(11pts) ~[SnkAttack] {DisableTrap 8, OpenLock 8, Persuade 2, Search 3, SetTraps 7, UMD 10] +0pts
Lvl8~Cleric6(5pts) ~WIS+1 {Spellcraft 5} +0pts
Lvl9~Cleric7(5pts) ~EXTEND SPELL {Concentrate 2, Heal 3} +0pts
Lvl10~Cleric8(5pts) ~ WIS+1 +5pts
Lvl11~Cleric9(5pts) ~ +10pts
Lvl12~Rogue2(11pts) ~ WIS+1, SILENT SPELL {Disable trap 5, Open Lock 4, Search 1, Set Trap 6, UMD 5} +0pts
Lvl13~Cleric10(5pts) ~ {Concentrate 3, Heal 1} +1pts
Lvl14~Cleric11(5pts ~ {Spellcraft 5} +1pts
Lvl15~Cleric12(5pts) ~ TOUGHNESS {Concentrate 1} +5pts
Lvl16~Cleric13(5pts) ~ WIS+1 {Concentrate 1} +9pts
Lvl17~Cleric14(5pts) ~ {Concentrate 1} +13pts
Lvl18~Rogue3(11pts) ~ EMPOWER SPELL {DisableTrap 5,Open Lock 5,Persuade 2,Search 4,Set Traps 3,UMD 5} +0pts
Lvl19**~Cleric15(5pts) ~ {Concentrate 5} +0pts
Lvl20**~Cleric16(5pts) ~ WIS+1 {Spellcraft 5} +0pts

Concentrate------21(+1)
Disable Trap------18(+2)
Heal-------------7(+4)
Lore-------------8(+2)
OpenLock--------17(+2)
Persuade---------8(+0)
Search-----------8(+2)
Set Traps---------17(+2)
Spellcraft---------18(+2)
UMD-------------20(+0)

One thing I was aiming for was a build that would still pack a punch if it ran into a nasty Dispel Magic user.

Feats that would have been nice to fit in, of course!! ~~ Improved Crit, Knockdown, Lightning Reflexes.... And I also would have liked to put at least a few points into Listen and Discipline. What do you think?? This does not have to be Top-of-the-Line but a build that will be flexible, kinda fun and not leave me stranded while exploring a new game.

All feedback much appreciated!! Thanks.





Post edited by Eadwyn_G8keeper on
Aerakar

Comments

  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,433
    You should probably move this to Off-Topic.

    A fun thing to do with clerics is to make it so that their spells are as hard as possible to make the save for. There was one character I had who's main strategy was to do lots and lots of damage with Blade Barrier. It's pretty nasty when enemies have a hard time making your saves!

    In general, I find that it's not very fun to go through the original campaign with a character who wins battles mainly by attacking. It's a lot more fun to be able to blast enemies apart with Flame Strikes.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I'd probably drop Open Lock and Disable Device to pick up Discipline. They just don't do anything an elemental weapon and a Find Traps spell can't, and by 7th level you should have both of those.

    I'm also not sure dual-wielding is going to be worth it for you. You'll already have Flurry of Blows, and it's costing you two feats and forcing you to raise Dex to 15. It feels to me like you'd be happier picking up Knockdown and Improved Knockdown.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,433
    Jarrakul said:

    I'd probably drop Open Lock and Disable Device to pick up Discipline. They just don't do anything an elemental weapon and a Find Traps spell can't, and by 7th level you should have both of those.

    I'm also not sure dual-wielding is going to be worth it for you. You'll already have Flurry of Blows, and it's costing you two feats and forcing you to raise Dex to 15. It feels to me like you'd be happier picking up Knockdown and Improved Knockdown.

    Once you get Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting you can get Improved Two-Weapon Fighting which gives you an additional attack per round, and I think that additional attack stacks with Flurry of Blows. You can get ALL the attacks per round!

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited June 2016
    Thinking about this overnight since posting...
    Jarrakul said:

    I'd probably drop Open Lock and Disable Device to pick up Discipline. They just don't do anything an elemental weapon and a Find Traps spell can't, and by 7th level you should have both of those.

    I'm also not sure dual-wielding is going to be worth it for you. You'll already have Flurry of Blows, and it's costing you two feats and forcing you to raise Dex to 15. It feels to me like you'd be happier picking up Knockdown and Improved Knockdown.

    I arrived at some of the same conclusions. Flurry of Blows already gets -2 to attacks and the extra attacks at a -4 penalty might not be such a great idea ~ particularly at the cost of 2 feats and Dex+1 as @Jarrakul notes ~ but also the loss of Shield AC benefits. [At first my thinking included the idea that Monks lost their bonus attacks with Shield equipped]

    With Shield equipped I could also probably dump the Dodge feat. For that matter, I could also probably dump the Weapon Focus feat. +1 Att might not mean all that much once Divine Power [Extended] and Bull Strength kick in. Reaching Level 8-9 with this build should not be a problem that a few reloads cannot solve. So that gives me 4 Feats to play with...!!!

    I think I could sacrifice 13pts from Open Lock, Disable, Set Traps and a point from Heal. That would give me 7pts [cross-skill] to put into Discipline plus Skill Focus: Discipline gets me to 10+2 skillpts. With Greater Gloves of Discipline available I feel like that is a much more well-rounded character.... Getting knocked on your ass is NOT my idea of a good reason to reload.

    Then I think I would add Knockdown, Lightning Reflexes and Spell Penetration. Toughness and Lightning Reflexes would be my Level 1 feats..... Not sure exactly how Spell Penetration works. Does it apply to all my Spells or just selected ones???

    [Note: Will move this to Off-Topic tomorrow but I want to keep it in General Discussion one more day. Thanks for your interests.]













  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Pretty sure Spell Penetration applies to all spells, so if you want to use offensive spells, it's a good choice. Whether you want to use offensive spells on a cleric is a more complicated question.

    Do note that, while you can use Flurry of Blows with a shield (or armor), you won't get the monk unarmored AC bonus, if you wanted to make use of that.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 2,433
    The thing about Spell Penetration is that it only matters against enemies with magic resistance. It's very useful in Hordes of the Underdark where you face lots and lots of drow, but I'm not sure how useful it is in the original campaign.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    I just checked my game and I am pretty sure that my Monk1-Cleric2 gets the full benefit of Shield. With Aribeth at the beginning of Chapter One he has Robes of Shining Soul+1AC and Boots of Sun Soul +1AC [Dodge] for AC 16. This must include a +2 bonus from Wisdom 14 doesn't it. Equipping Tower Shield gives me AC 19.

    Maybe Spell Focus: Evocation instead of Spell Penetration?? And I could forget about Health to glean another 6 [cross-skill] pts to reach Discipline-10+2[+3SF]....hmmm.

    Concentrate-------20+2
    DisableTrp--------13+2
    Discipline---------10+2+3
    Lore--------------8+2
    OpenLock---------13+2
    Persuade----------8
    Search------------8+2
    SetTraps----------13+2
    Spellcraft----------18+2
    UMD--------------20

    Lvl1---Monk Pkge, Knockdown, Toughness
    Lvl2---Cleric Pkge [Strength/Trickery]
    Lvl3---Extend Spell
    Lvl4---Wis+1
    Lvl6---Silent Spell
    Lvl7---Rogue Pkge
    Lvl8---Wis+1
    Lvl9---Spell Focus: Evocation
    Lvl12--Skill Focus: Discipline, Wis +1
    Lvl15--Empower Spell
    Lvl16--Wis+1
    Lvl18--Lightning Reflex or Improved Knockdown
    Lvl20--Wis+1

  • DungeonnoobDungeonnoob Member Posts: 315
    edited June 2016
    Hi,with trickery/thieving domain its enough with 1 point in open lock i think and you get improved invisibility as lv 5 spell iirc and pick blindfight if u gonna use darkness spell.But why 8 persuade points with 10 charisma + 0?

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited June 2016
    @Dungeonnoob ~Trickery and Strength Domains are for Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere, Improved Invisibility, Divine Power, Stoneskin. Don't think there is any benefit for Open Locks there. I will be able to bash effectively if necessary and Magic Missile scrolls should work but that is not an elegant way to proceed imho and I put a fairly high value on style points.

    I think Persuade is one of the Skills that is not linked to 5pt increments [ex: UMD, Lore] and Eagle's Splendor potion could get me 10 ranks if necessary. I would be more inclined to drop it to 5 rather than raise it to 10.

    Actually, I think I will change horses again to the dual-kama archetype. So at Level9/Level12 I will take 2WpnFight/Ambidexterity and Dex+1. At Level 15 - Skill Focus: Discipline and at Level 18 - Empower Spell. [Losing Spell Focus: Evocation and Improved Knockdown]. At Level 12 my HP and Attacks should be enough to end battles quickly.

    Then I can drop 3 pts from Set Traps [>10+2] and 1 pt from Persuade [>7] to add 2 more cross-skill ranks to Discipline [>12+2+3]. ~Cheers!

    Dungeonnoob
  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    Note for Moderators:: I do not know how to move this discussion to OFF-TOPIC, so if you agree that this thread should be in that category please assist. Thanks for your attention.

  • Souave_SaidSouave_Said Member Posts: 2
    Would be interested in how that level of Discipline works for you since you are steering towards a melee character. Generally Cross-skill points boosted by Skill Focus are taboo for serious builds but I think that may be a bit narrow-minded for such game-changers as Concentration, Discipline, Spellcraft and even Taunt, which can be quite effective and adds lots of RP possibilities if interested in that aspect...

    Another thought might be to take some Fighter ranks for the extra feats and Weapon Spec. instead of Rogue, then choose Tomi as your companion. His sneak attack is pretty good backing up your Melee Power. Or even better might be Ranger which would get Dual-wielding quickly.... Just a thought.

  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,769

    Note for Moderators:: I do not know how to move this discussion to OFF-TOPIC, so if you agree that this thread should be in that category please assist. Thanks for your attention.

    I was going to say you could edit the OP and select Off Topic in the dropdown box, but it looks like they removed that option.

  • DungeonnoobDungeonnoob Member Posts: 315

    @Dungeonnoob ~Trickery and Strength Domains are for Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere, Improved Invisibility, Divine Power, Stoneskin. Don't think there is any benefit for Open Locks there. I will be able to bash effectively if necessary and Magic Missile scrolls should work but that is not an elegant way to proceed imho and I put a fairly high value on style points.

    I think Persuade is one of the Skills that is not linked to 5pt increments [ex: UMD, Lore] and Eagle's Splendor potion could get me 10 ranks if necessary. I would be more inclined to drop it to 5 rather than raise it to 10.

    Actually, I think I will change horses again to the dual-kama archetype. So at Level9/Level12 I will take 2WpnFight/Ambidexterity and Dex+1. At Level 15 - Skill Focus: Discipline and at Level 18 - Empower Spell. [Losing Spell Focus: Evocation and Improved Knockdown]. At Level 12 my HP and Attacks should be enough to end battles quickly.

    Then I can drop 3 pts from Set Traps [>10+2] and 1 pt from Persuade [>7] to add 2 more cross-skill ranks to Discipline [>12+2+3]. ~Cheers!

    Yeah good point i forgot about Eagle Splendor,but if you quick slot the trickery Domain it should give boost to all your Trickery skills for a few seconds,if I'm wrong I'm very sorry.My favored domains were Trickery/Healing or Healing/Magic.War domain might work to but i rather have tonns of harms than Aura of vitality in the lv 7 spell slots.

    WoF,Harm,Ice Storms strong combo

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited July 2016




    Yeah good point i forgot about Eagle Splendor,but if you quick slot the trickery Domain it should give boost to all your Trickery skills for a few seconds,if I'm wrong I'm very sorry.My favored domains were Trickery/Healing or Healing/Magic.War domain might work to but i rather have tonns of harms than Aura of vitality in the lv 7 spell slots.

    WoF,Harm,Ice Storms strong combo

    You're right!! Once per day bonus to various skills including: DisableTrap, Open Lock, Persuade, Search which will be very handy. [Also Hide, Move Silent which I do not need with Improved Invisibility]. Bonus is 1+1 per 2 Cleric Levels. I get a kick out of Setting Traps so might use the Domain Power for Recovering Strong/Deadly Traps as I seem to recall that requiring higher Skill ranks than Disable.

    Taking an earlier Weapon Focus: Kama also seems a better option now because it not only gets me the +1 Attack but also ensures finding at least 2 +1 Kamas fairly early.

    As for your point about Aura of Vitality dmg potential in lvl 7 slot from War Domain, I might be more interested in Creeping Doom from the Plant Domain. Seems to be an effective Giant-killer that might also suppress casters in situations where Melee is not working. No save and No Resistance. I would surely miss Stoneskin but Barkskin can help.

    Another thought is that giving up the Trickery Domain could be doable if I can purchase Improved Invisibility in the game... Perhaps it will only be necessary for certain Trap-setting scenarios and thus an affordable expense. Will have to check how much UMD I would need to use the Scroll or is it only Items that require extra levels of UMD in the OC. Not having an Ace-in-the-hole for unknown Bosses presenting unforseeable problems really bothers me!!! Not my inclination!! ~~~Hmmmmm

    I am also looking at Spellcraft as a place to cut 5 pts. And another 5 from Set Traps. Leading to this Skill Profile:

    Strength and Plant Domains

    Concentration----------22+2
    Disable Trap------------18+2
    Discipline[cross-class]----20(10)+2+3SF?
    Heal-------------------5+2(4*)
    Lore-------------------8+2
    Open Lock--------------13+2
    Persuade---------------7
    Search------------------8+2
    Set Trap----------------8+2
    Spellcraft---------------13+2
    UMD-------------------20

    Feats:
    lvl1 Cleave, Evasion, 2WpnFight, Toughness
    Lvl3 WpnFocus: Kama
    Lvl4 Wis+1
    Lvl6 ExtendSpell
    Lvl7 SnkAtt1d6
    Lvl8 Wis+1
    lvl9 Silent Spell, Lvl4 Spells
    Lvl11 Lvl5 Spells
    Lvl12 Dex+1, Ambidexterity
    Lvl13 Lvl6 Spells
    lvl15 Knockdown
    lvl16 Wis +1(17) Lvl7 Spells
    Lvl18 Skill Focus: Discipline or Empower Spell or Lightning Reflex, SnkAttck2d6
    Lvl20 Wis+1(18) Lvl8 Spells

    Post edited by Eadwyn_G8keeper on
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Moved to Off Topic for you.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • DungeonnoobDungeonnoob Member Posts: 315
    If you really want a cool build with kama´s,try out the druids air elemental shape iirc.The high dexterity (30) will boost all of your dexterity skills and you get the huge air elemental shape lv 16.Mass camo gives you concealment and you will keep stoneskin.Only weakness is the fortitude save,the build could solve some of your issues.Drop the strength stat to 12 and raise the intelligence stat to 16.The build should not be to overpowered since you get the shapes so late.

    Maybe

    3 monk/1 rogue/16 druid

    or

    3 rogue/1 monk/16 druid



  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    Stopping one level away from level 9 spells is rather silly.

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited July 2016
    iKrivetko said:

    Stopping one level away from level 9 spells is rather silly.

    Only if the game cannot be beat without level 9 spells. I am not trying to make an Uber PvP build after all. And if I personally enjoy Setting Traps as part of my game-play then "rather silly" might be a self-reflective observation.

    That being said I have of course given some thought to a continuation to Epic levels. Cleric 24 Rogue10 Monk6 in which I would drop the Knockdown feat as Monk6 gets KD,IKD for free and take the last 4-5 levels with XP penalty . But then if I were going to Epic levels I would get the most recent edition and prestige classes - a whole different ball-game.

    Not knowing what challenges have to be met in the later chapters makes it all kinda hypothetical anyhow. I like the options this build gives me, the Discipline thing might not be enough to make much difference [up until Level 18 I will only have 6+2 Skill ranks] which will free-up a lot of points for Rogue skills. I am also not sure how much the last 5 pts of UMD will be worth - might be better spent in Set Traps!

    Anyhow my Toon [John Bodhi VI] hit level 6 [with AC22] last night before taking down the Peninsula Prison bosses so I am going to see what happens....

    Thanks for the input!

  • iKrivetkoiKrivetko Member Posts: 934
    edited July 2016
    Not that you desperately need Rogue 3 for setting traps. Besides, you will be facing an EXP penalty.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    iKrivetko said:

    , you will be facing an EXP penalty.

    This.

    You need to keep monk and rogue within 1 level of each other.

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    edited July 2016
    iKrivetko said:

    Not that you desperately need Rogue 3 for setting traps. Besides, you will be facing an EXP penalty.

    Agreed. I could delay Rogue 1 until Level 12 and travel w Tomi off and on as needed until Level 12. But if I want to cast Level 9 Cleric Spells I will need Wisdom 19 which will probably mean dropping 2 pts of Strength. Certainly doable with Strength domain and liberal use of Bull Strength spells and potions.

    Or another option might be drop 2 pts of Intelligence and take Rogue as my first level for the 16 extra pts. Get Rogue skills at Level 12 and forget Rogue 3 ~ With a 3rd option of returning to the idea of no dual-wielding so that I do not need Dex15 with extra feats for Empower Spell, Lightning Reflex, etc.

    OK. More to think about...and the Domain power of Trickery really seems a no-brainer even if its only a 5 round duration. Creeping Doom from Plant Domain is less compelling if I will have Level 9 Spells for end game bosses.

    So much still unknown. Can I buy Improved Invisibility scrolls in Chap. 2?? How much UMD do I really need with this build?? The Discipline thing seems workable with Skill Focus and the +6 gloves and probably necessary for a Melee toon. Level 9 Spells are clearly powerful features but are they really what I want if they tip the whole balance of the Character more toward a Caster Cleric??

    Then there is the question of whether I would actually reach Level 19-20 in the Original Campaign with or without a 20% EXP penalty. At this point I have no idea how much of the game I will be able to manage solo after Chap. One. So the EXP penalty might be a non-factor. I mean ~ playing Solo or with Henchpersons/SummonCreatures seems to me quite possibly a MUCH bigger factor in XP gain calculations.

    Anyhow, ridiculous to think I can figure this out without more meta-knowledge of the game... But I do get a kick out of working with the puzzle that is just as real as the In-game experience. Later, my head is spinning!!


    Post edited by Eadwyn_G8keeper on
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