Quayle

Quartz

I didn't want to post this in the Bug forum because I'm too afraid someone will say "THOSE AREN'T BUGS LOLOL!" when they are clear oversights.

So there are several problems with Quayle, and I know for a fact that at least one of them is addressed, but I still want to say all these, and if anyone knowledgeable can comment to refresh my memory on how it will be addressed or what not, that would be fantastic.

1. Too low of a strength for his own Flail. Wasn't an issue in vanilla BG as there was no strength check but in the BG:EE engine this will be an issue.
2. He has a couple of Necromancy spells - Larloch's Minor Drain and Horror - when you pick him up, despite them being in his opposition school.
3. He has below minimum Dexterity to be an Illusionist. Requirement is 16, he has 15. This strikes me as the biggest issue of all, as you are totally being ripped off from having a better AC and a small bonus to his slinging ability. His stats are bad already I wish this could be fixed.

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UPDATE:

BG:EE status:

1. His profs are now Club - Sling - Sword and Shield Style. He can wield Clubs with zero issue. Yay!
2. He still has Larloch's Minor Drain and Horror. Additionally, they gave him Spook. I would've thought they would give him Spook and take away Horror (seems very fitting), but Horror is still there. If you pick him up at Level 6/5 he comes with Wraith Form, which is freakin' awesome.
3. They changed his Dexterity to 16! Hallelujah!!

Brude

Figure 1&2 might be addressed, but 3 won't be as other NPCs have "illegal" stats for their class and nobody minds too much.

Kaxon

#1 seems like a clear mistake. I'm not sure if #2 and #3 count as mistakes - NPCs don't necessarily follow the same rules as the PC (Haer'dalis with 2 stars in short sword and Anomen dual classing with only 12 Wisdom to name a couple examples)

Quartz

I know that NPCs have illegal stats but they're always a GOOD thing sans Quayle and Minsc...

Smiling_Imp

How about if they added some illusion spells to make him more useful. For example, he might be able to sneak the party into some areas by giving them an illusionary appearance, like Adalon did in SoA.. or borrowing from 'The Bard's Tale' a spell like Wind Dragon, which would create an illusionary red dragon to fight with your party and terrify your enemies.

Dee

I can definitely see 1 being an issue; 2 is kind of a nice perk that I'm not sure wasn't intentional. 3 seems silly; a few necromancy spells isn't enough to justify a low Wisdom (as a cleric) AND a low Dexterity (as an illusionist).

kamuizin

Quayle only serve for one thing: To babysitter Aerie.

Quartz

He has more overall spells than Edwin. Quayle is far from useless. But there are a stupid number of oversights in his character, as we can see here.

Unfortunately, I'm sure the right of "contract limitashuuuns!" will be invoked. Pfeh.

sandmanCCL

I believe I recall someone on the BG:EE staff (during the AMA?) say among new magical items being added into the game are magic clubs, and Quayle's mace proficiency would be thrown into clubs. This means he can still use a buckler or whatever, instead of being forced into quarterstaves.

He's far from useless. Strength is a non-issue because he doesn't need to wear any armors, as they'd all conflict with his arcane spells. Intelligence is good. Illusionist is a great kit, especially when paired with cleric because you still get access to Cleric's necromancy spells. He actually doesn't even really lose out on that many cleric spells compared to the straight clerics. You lose out on a couple level 1s and a few level 2s, but no one has more than 16 wisdom. You need 17 or better to get a bonus 3rd and beyond. Losing a couple more minor heals and a few DUHM's is a bummer but it's hardly crippling to his cleric side. Besides, you should probably have Jaheira or Branwen with you by the time he shows up anyway. Even his minor spells compliments whatever other Divine caster you've got with you. Yay versatility!

I wish I'd have understood that years ago. Someone on these boards pointed that out to me. The manual says guys below 13 wisdom are supposed to suffer divine spell failure but that was never implemented in the game. It's possibly the most overrated stat in the game, therefore. Even the classes that have it listed as a "requisite" or whatever are better off focusing on strength, dexterity and constitution.

kamuizin

i meant that because you only get him at the end of the game, and in BG II it's simply like you never had meet him, an completly story uncoherence.

Quartz

Yes yes, that's right, they changed the prof. Thank you for reminding me sandman.

Also: What you said. Quayle rocks!

Jaxsbudgie

Alone else think Steve from American Dad sounds really similar to Quayle?

Kaxon

kamuizin said:

i meant that because you only get him at the end of the game, and in BG II it's simply like you never had meet him, an completly story uncoherence.

Huh? In BG2 you can say you know him or you don't. Similar to other optional encounters in BG1.

kamuizin

@Kaxon, after years of BG II play i never faced this option, i will look for it in an next circus encounter in BG II.

sandmanCCL

Jaxsbudgie said:

Alone else think Steve from American Dad sounds really similar to Quayle?

To satisfy my nerd quotient for the week, I decided to go IMDB the voice actor for Quayle.

Guy's name is Jeff Bennett.

Other works you might recognize:
-Drizzt and Xan in Baldur's Gate, Saemon Havarian and Gaelan Bayle in BG2
-Brooklyn from Gargoyles (he was the red one)
-Petrie from Land Before Time
-Johnny Bravo
-Dexter's Dad in Dexter's Lab

He's done TONS of incidental voice work, so he's the type of guy you hire to voice like 5 or 6 different people in your cartoon series.

The guy who voices Steve in American Dad! is Scott Grimes who doesn't actually do a lot of voice work but is known as an actor. I'm sure you'd recognize him if you followed the link. Probably a personal friend of Seth McFarlane's as are most the voice talent he uses between American Dad! and Family Guy.

Quartz

Quayle and Johnny Bravo? What in the ... those are like polar opposites! Here I thought Anomen being Pinky from Pinky and the Brain was crazy enough, that's even more so...

Anyway, I could always tell that Drizzt and Xan were the same voice actor. I had no idea it was also Quayle though, and certainly never guessed Saemon or Gaelan.

Nice research.

On the subject of game mechanics though, Quayle may be awesome but Xzar kinda does the whole Divine+Arcane thing better. Just saying. Quayle gets a couple 4th level mage spells though, he's got that over him.

sandmanCCL

Xzar also eats tomes to do that. Quayle is also slightly more durable because of gnome saves.

Also, Quayle hits 7/7. If you want to dual-class Xzar and actually regain your mage levels, you can only hit 6/8. You'll never get 4th level arcane spells doing so.

Basically, Quayle is a better mage than cleric, Xzar is a better cleric than mage, if you decided to min/max both.

Quartz

Ya lol that's what I said in my post, that Quayle gets two 4th level arcane spells but Xzar doesn't, he's got that over him.

Hilarious thing is, Xzar has to eat tomes to do it, but he still shares the best Wisdom score in the game with Yeslick, Faldorn, and Branwen. :P I guess no one above 16 Wisdom thinks it's a good idea to join your group, facing impossible odds ... you're all doomed.

I also totally agree with your last point, "Quayle is a better mage than cleric, Xzar is a better cleric than mage." Totally true there. I'm actually running a save right now where I am picking up both, should be entertaining for sure!

And yes, shorty save bonuses are awesome and shouldn't be overlooked.

Moomintroll

I'd like to kidnap Quayle in BG and brainwash him into a murderous hatred for the Avariel.

Rajick

Moomintroll said:

I'd like to kidnap Quayle in BG and brainwash him into a murderous hatred for the Avariel.

Lol sounds good lets do it

mrhedgehog

I hope they improve his stats so he is on par with the other characters.

ajwz

Moomintroll said:

I'd like to kidnap Quayle in BG and brainwash him into a murderous hatred for the Avariel.

You wouldn't hurt a gnome, would you?

Quartz

mrhedgehog said:

I hope they improve his stats so he is on par with the other characters.

They aren't allowed to do that. They would get into legal trouble.

That said, it's quite obvious from this thread that I personally believe it would be legit to up his Dexterity one point because otherwise his stats are illegal to his class. But maybe that would spark legal trouble too, you know? I don't know these things.

Mungri

I don't believe they would get into legal for altering stats or classes, no more than they do for adding new characters. You can already modify any character however you like using shadowkeeper.

Quartz

Mungri said:

I don't believe they would get into legal for altering stats or classes, no more than they do for adding new characters. You can already modify any character however you like using shadowkeeper.

Haha!

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1588/bgee-please-read-list-of-things-that-cant-be-done/p1

LadyEibhilinRhett

Yeah, but they're not allowed to modify existing content, remember? So it might be possible that they would get into trouble for that.

Mornmagor

I think they have already modified some things, as they said some time ago, but not something that changes the story or anything big.

They need approval for most things though.

Mungri

They aren't allowed to modify it 'heavy handedly' it says, I don't see how significant changing stat scores could be to violate that requirement.

Simply changing stats even classes likely wouldn't be a problem. The thing they can't do is change the dialogue / story, they can only add new quests on top of the original game.

Quartz

Well, I'm all for it if it can be done, of course.

People pull the "it makes the NPC unique!" card far too much if you ask me. When there's an attribute missing one Dex point, it's pretty clear to me that it's an oversight, a mistake, not intentional.

Same with the Necromancy spells. It's clear they were really lazy with a lot of Spell Books, a lot of people start with Larloch's Minor Drain and Horror, seriously.

Mungri

I don't see how changing Quayles stats to the minimum requirement for his class would be illegal. 1 more point of dexterity, and 5 more points of Wisdom would be needed to make your own cleric / illusionist, and I think 9 min strength too. Why should NPCs be weaker than their classes minimum stats in the character generator?

If it were up to me, the new Quayle would be:

10 str
16 dex
10 con
15 int
15 wis
Minimum allowed CHA if more than 6.

And that makes him as good as the absolute worst Cleric / Illusionist you can create yourself.

Similarly I would change Coran to a legal 19 dex elven Archer kit.

cory5694

@quartz What do you mean by they were lazy with spell books? Just curious.