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PST:EE is next and here is why:

124

Comments

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,724
    shawne said:

    Here's what it comes down to for me: there is, broadly speaking, a very strong consensus as to the quality of PS:T's story content. Moreso even than Baldur's Gate.

    No such consensus exists for content Beamdog have added into existing games (in this case, BG1 and BG2). This is not to say that some of the content in question hasn't been good, or well-received - simply that when you compare critical perspectives, even here, it's clear that not all of Beamdog's contributions have been equally appreciated.

    The review thread for SoD kept stressing, again and again, that a 71/100 aggregate score was a perfectly acceptable and understandable threshold for Beamdog to reach. PS:T is not a 70/100 game. Let them focus on rehauling the engine and fixing bugs instead of trying to match a level of storytelling they're just not equipped to meet.

    The question should be, can David Gaider lead a small team of writers to match the storytelling of PS:T?

    Whatever the new project is, there will be an overhauled writing team to the one that produced SoD and the other EE games.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    If Beamdog did do PSTEE, David Gaider wouldn't be "leading the team". We already know he is lead writer on an original game, not an EE.

    Doesn't mean he might not do some writing on whatever side-project Beamdog happen to be working on, but he wouldn't be lead.

    It seems to me that there is only one person who could be lead writer on PSTEE - Chis Avallone. Without him, don't bother.

    shawneButtercheeseGod
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    shawne said:


    "Avoid huge plotholes" and "Explain this character's motivation" are fairly basic expectations that Beamdog haven't always met.

    Neither did Planescape Torment. Hi, Ignus.
    shawne said:


    I mean, flip your question around for a second: what exactly have Beamdog done that make you think they could do justice to characters like Ravel Puzzlewell or Trias?

    They've managed to do lots of cryptic-sounding BS for characters, so yeah, they could probably do Ravel Puzzlewell just fine.

    The real problem with adding story to a hypothetical PST:EE is exactly what you're demonstrating here: a rose-tinted nostalgia for how good the original was, and a willingness to compare any new content only to the perceived best bits of PST, while ignoring that PST had lots of bits that weren't its best.

    Not that this is new - the same thing happens for new content and characters in the BGEEs.

    kanisatha
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited July 2016
    Ayiekie said:

    Neither did Planescape Torment. Hi, Ignus.

    You're using Ignus as an example of a character whose motivations aren't explained? Really? I mean, it'd be one thing to say you didn't care for it, it's another to pretend it's not there.
    Ayiekie said:

    The real problem with adding story to a hypothetical PST:EE is exactly what you're demonstrating here: a rose-tinted nostalgia for how good the original was, and a willingness to compare any new content only to the perceived best bits of PST, while ignoring that PST had lots of bits that weren't its best.

    Conversely, you're letting your own standards for writing flaws you will or won't accept prompt you into inaccuracies (seriously? Ignus' motivations are unclear?). No game is perfect, but if the best new content Beamdog is capable of producing isn't on the level of the best content PS:T already has, there's no justification for interference. It hasn't worked out with Baldur's Gate - regardless of any lapses you or I are personally willing to overlook - and it won't work here.

    scriverGenderNihilismGirdle
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    shawne said:


    You're using Ignus as an example of a character whose motivations aren't explained? Really? I mean, it'd be one thing to say you didn't care for it, it's another to pretend it's not there.

    "An explanation" |= "a satisfactory explanation", a distinction you are demonstrably familiar with. His backstory does not really explain him at all (because he's a shallow, unrealistic caricature who would require exceptional writing to explain, which he does not have). So no, I stand by that statement.
    shawne said:


    Conversely, you're letting your own standards for writing flaws you will or won't accept prompt you into inaccuracies (seriously? Ignus' motivations are unclear?). No game is perfect, but if the best new content Beamdog is capable of producing isn't on the level of the best content PS:T already has, there's no justification for interference.

    Beamdog hasn't tried to produce any content that's like PS:T. Nor would I expect a PST:EE to be trying to reinvent the wheel, so their ability to replicate its most notable writing (that is, the personal journey of self-discovery undertaken by TNO and some of the less clunky philosophical bits) would not necessarily be relevant.

    Beamdog has demonstrated more than sufficient competence to be able to turn out sideplots that could smoothly adjoin PS:T, which had no shortage of sideplots of varying levels of writing quality. And they certainly could write a companion that would be better than Ignus.

    Once again, this kind of fan response shows why it would probably be a bad idea to try, but your standards for writing flaws you will or won't accept are not in any way more objective than anyone else's. It is neither obvious nor a self-evident truth that adding something new to PST (rather than leave it as a pristine moldering edifice, untouched and untouchable to the lesser mortals of 2016) would somehow lessen it. The only thing for sure is that any writing added, regardless of quality, would be viciously attacked simply for existing. So I reluctantly agree with you that they probably shouldn't try (if they are doing this at all), while vehemently disagreeing with your reasoning.

    kanisatha
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    edited July 2016
    Hmm...I can't remember any confusion about Ignus other than...

    You didn't learn what Incarnation of yours had been his teacher. But you learn a great deal about him just by talking to him.

    I mistook it as the Practical Incarnation when I came to the Fortress of Regrets. You even had a dialogue option where you asked him if he was responsible for Ignus and the practical incarnation replied by asking who I was talking about.

    I might have missed some information while playing though, so don't take my word for it.

    Montresor_SPshawnesparkleav
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited July 2016
    Ayiekie said:

    Once again, this kind of fan response shows why it would probably be a bad idea to try, but your standards for writing flaws you will or won't accept are not in any way more objective than anyone else's.

    You see how this is a self-defeating argument, right? You're attributing my evaluation of PS:T to rose-tinted nostalgia; I can just as easily pin your defense of Beamdog to fannish overexaggeration of their actual capabilities. You've gone to bat for proven instances of sloppy writing (case in point: Cabrina) on the grounds that it doesn't bother you; what more is there to do but agree to disagree?

    scriver
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Setting aside the "let's find any opportunity to take Yet Another Potshot at Beamdog's writers" (OMG please), this right here is why I think they should do it. PST is so great, why not clean up the interface and release it on new platforms and get it out to more new players?

    As for writing (sigh) I suppose it is a valid concern, after all look how they ruined IWDEE... oh wait, they didn't do anything to IWDEE's writing. But still took the time to overhaul the engine and release the game. They could do exactly the same thing with PST, it would be great.

    ... You do realize that's what I've been arguing in favor of, right? Like, on this very thread?

    scriver
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    @Dee
    Okay, now I am curious. What exactly was added, changed?
    (Don't worry about off-topic, I'll allow it :tongue: )

    mf2112lolien
  • fbaggins01fbaggins01 Member Posts: 6
    I'd pre-order an enhanced edition of PS:T if it would help.

    I've finished my most recent play through about a month ago, but would go through it again, next time as a more evil character - was too much of a goody goody.

    If they've been working on it all this time, it could be the perfect lead in to T:TON.

    Also well done on the minor IW:D changes, I noticed those things, but didn't notice them as additions, it had been years since I'd last played IWD and just though they were always there.

    lolien
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    batoor said:

    Hmm...I can't remember any confusion about Ignus other than...

    You didn't learn what Incarnation of yours had been his teacher. But you learn a great deal about him just by talking to him.

    I mistook it as the Practical Incarnation when I came to the Fortress of Regrets. You even had a dialogue option where you asked him if he was responsible for Ignus and the practical incarnation replied by asking who I was talking about.

    I might have missed some information while playing though, so don't take my word for it.
    It was the Practical.

  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,590
    rule of thumb with pst. if it's not the paranoid incarnation [your previous life] then it always comes back to practical incarnation.

  • VarwulfVarwulf Member Posts: 563
    I also noticed and pointed out that several sprite and audio assets from IWD2 were present... so we'll have to wait and see :)

    ButtercheeseGod
  • EvilElitestEvilElitest Member Posts: 3
    edited August 2016
    Ok, so remaking Planescape Torment, a tricky prospect when it is so often considered the greatest game ever made, where do you start? I keep seeing people say “no new content” and that is just short sighted. You want P:T without any new content, its on GOG right now, go get it. You already have previous P:T, get that, install some mods move on. The whole point about doing an enhanced edition is to enhance it, and let’s look at what P:T needs to be enhanced, because even though I think it is the best video game ever made no exaggeration, that doesn’t mean its perfect, nothing is perfect, everything can use improvement and the whole “don’t add anything” is just fandom idolatry, change the game, expand on the game, overhaul the game while keeping what makes it good and you will have a great experience. The main story is one of the best in video game writing, but it isn’t sacrosanct, it has problems, it could be told better, large sections of the game are rushed due to development issues behind the scenes, your companions arcs are somewhat limited (particularly compared to some modern RPGS), there is a lot more you could with former incarnations, the NO could meet more people from his horrible past, to say nothing of new locals and side quests which could be included easily without confronting the real game. Hell the entire middle section of the game from Curst to return to Sigil is just a slog that totally undermines the entire point of the game by making it standard D&D adventure story, this game has been begging for a remake since 1999. For example, Trias is a really interesting character who has three scenes which aren't that in depth, you could do so much more with that character. And of your companions only Morte and Dak'kon have anything resembling an arc, everybody else is static (except Annah who is just kinda there), there is plenty of room for improvement.

    Like I understand the whole “oh no don’t add stuff you will just ruin it” but honestly fortune favors the bold. PS:T took risks, that is its defining trait as a game, nothing is gained if we simply sit around afraid of what could happen. If it sucks, it sucks and an off to GOG we go. And if it is legitimately more interesting then we have P:T finally get the wide spread support it always deserves.
    Actually lets strip away the veil of nostalgia and just go all in here, how do you do a Planescape Torment reboot. Let’s divide this up, stuff that needs to be improved, and stuff that you really shouldn’t touch.
    So the question is, what did the previous game do wrong that needs improvement and what did the previous game do right that shouldn’t be touched.
    Well let’s start with what the original game did wrong, because while it is my favorite RPG, there is plenty that could be improved here.

    But its important remember, Planescape Torment is great when it is weird. Wild Creativity, this game is just bursting with ideas at the seams, everywhere you look, something amazing happens. You have a scene where you can pretend to be a zombie and walk around and talk to people, you can hit on zombies, a random zombie tells you a story about how he was a Chinese bodyguard whose charge was kidnapped, you find lost memories of both reverse Gregor Samsa and prince and the pauper Wu Zetian, you have to find the literal keys to a girls heart, you have to bring somebody their name so they can stay warm, you can make plants grow by believing in them, hell you can create a false version of yourself by giving a fake name. And the Hindu style conception of the Divine Alphabet O gives you a wisdom bonus, this is amazing.
    Spoilers from this point out

    So Firstly, we have issues of age, Planescape Torment was amazing, and there are many things that I wish modern RPGs would borrow from the game, but since the 90s there has been a great deal of innovation that Plansecape: Torment really could use. For example, while the Planescape companions are interesting, they are mostly embodiments of ideas more than real people. Something that this could borrow from Mass Effect or Dragon Age is to flesh them out as characters, make them feel more real and more human. Adding a lot more banter would add to this, but also being able to talk to your companions in a more in depth way. That might sound weird because at the time Planescape Torment allowed for the greatest amount of depth, but assuming you have the stats for it, you can max out most of your companions total dialog right after picking them up, and that’s it, whole character done. Even the ones who are more paced out like Motre and Dak’kon, once their main issue is solved, they are mostly done. And they are the best, Vhailor, Ignus, and Nodrom are pretty much done after you pick them up, while Falls and Annah have their own issues (see below). I think a remake should take advantage to add more dialog, make it so talking to them after certain events or reveals of certain information. I mean talking to Morte after the Pillar of Skulls, or Falls after visiting Hell, or Vhailor….ever. Ideally we could have more personal quests, missions, interactions, and scenes, there are only 7 companions so this shouldn’t be very hard.
    Also a lot more reaction scenes, the ones we have are cool but we need more. And really, some of the companions need more work, Ignus and Vhailor really need to have more to say beyond “I am a massive fanboy of a concept desperately trying to be a personification of a concept that I am not” and not much else beyond that, Fire and Justice. Ignus really comes off the worse here because at least justice is a concept that has a lot of philosophical, cultural, and ethnical questions attached to it, fire is just…fire. Don’t cut any of the existing stuff, just add more so Ignus can be a bit more than a novelty psychopath who likes fire.
    Also random aside, ever notice how the companions in this game are paired? Two exemplar creatures who have found free will, Falls and Nodrom. Two mortals attempting to personify concepts, Ignus and Vhailor, two people bound to the NO out of a sense of guilt and responsibility, Morte and Dak’kon. And then there is Ananh, just being normal.
    Also you include an intelligence mace and then it has nothing to say? Seriously, what a waste? Hopefully the EE could add things for the mace to say, maybe even a plot line.
    This extends to more than just the companions. What everybody says about P:T is that it is awesome how much you can chat with the world NPC’s about, but replaying the game it becomes really samy. Hello, have you met Pharod, have you seen a Journal, hey unique dialog option I’ll just click that, oh look I can be a jerk or just keep engaging, well I do want to actually do the quest so I guess I will chase the word tree. And that isn’t really a bad thing, because again the writing is interesting and unique enough that I don’t really mind the sort of linear quality it can take on. But it would be nice if I can chat with some of the NCPs about other stuff, ask them about new things that are going on, maybe talk about factions. Ehh, that would likely be too much writing, redact that.
    But it would be nice if some more about the other factions were included, Signers would be fun.
    Actually on the subject of companions, so we have a limit of 6 slots and a total of seven companions…which is just awkward. Like in Baldur’s Gate we have six slot but like 25 companions, even more in the EE. So that’s perfectly cool. But in Planescape Torment you have this awkward situation in every playthrough where you have just too many companions for them all to be in your party so two people. Every time I play through I’m left with this awkward bit at the end where I am like “ok, so...Ignus and Falls, guess you are staying home”. So either allow us to have two more companions, or include some new companions. Actually some new companions would be great because Planescape’s sheer weirdness would allow for so many options for really interesting new characters. The key is that these characters could only exist in a Planescape game, wildly creative, darkly philosophical and tied uniquely to the D&D Just a few random ideas off the bat
    • The Nameless One at some point lost his shadow Peter Pan style, and now it’s become an independent entity who serves as a twisted reflection of the NO as a whole, so generally a really nice kind obsessively do gooder person trying to redeem himself while missing the point entirely, but also containing a nasty dark side.
    • A D&D style Ooze Genesai who was cut off from her god by the NO and has since become a Bleaker assassin.
    • A unicorn scholar whose library was destroyed by the NO centuries ago and now seeks to rebuild it by draining people’s thoughts, much to the disappointment of her Rilmani Mother
    • The Nameless in one life time had his brain removed and put in a jar, the brain has since moved on and become a psionic advocate for the Fraternity of Order (Old World Blues for the win)
    Go crazy, go wild, just make sure that you remember that P:T is primarily a philosophical game, and the companions need to tie into the main themes of the game (except Annah evidently). Which are as follows, Regret, Abuse, the nature of good and evil, guilt, responsibility, memory, loss, entropy, identity, sin, detachment, sin, and of course, what can change the nature of a man. Some of the problem with the original game is that some of the companions don’t tie into those themes, don’t make that same mistake.
    Just something alone those lines, go bizarre, go wild, do a read through of the D&D world and come up with stuff that wouldn’t show up in any other fantasy work. And seriously can we please have more than one cleric or mage? Ignus is hyper specialized and Falls is the weirdest cleric you ever did see, please?
    Or make it so we can have all 7 so I don’t have the awkward pick and choose circumstance.
    Ok so when is Torment bad rather than not living up to its potiental? Well its kinda inherently bad, its torment, but I mean the game not the concept.
    Well…whenever it isn’t being distinct. I don’t think I’m alone when I say that I stopped playing for a spell when I arrived in Crust, because the whole game just ran to a stop. What made Planescape Torment unique was gone, now it was just a series of boring fetch quests, simplistic storylines, and constant combat. And Torment isn’t good when it has to rely on the combat. And this doesn’t end for ages, once you finish Curst you have to hack your way through an underground, a prison, the Outlands, Hell, Outlands again, Carceri and when you finally arrive home very little has changed in the story. The only things of interest in that whole section, which is quite long, is Vhailor, Trias, and Fhjull Forked-Tongue, all of whom are interesting characters who aren’t given nearly enough focus (Trias in particular is the worse here, because a fallen Deva with that back story sort of demanded more story than he was given). Seriously that whole section needs to be completely overhauled, and not just for story, between entering Curst underground and defeating Trias you will find tons of loot and not a single merchant, that is great design there right? Oh and fight your way through Carceri and the four floors of the warehouse and you get to fight a boss with no chance of resting, because if you used up all your spells getting there, sucks to be you right?
    Its worse because the Red Prison in D&D is just that, a massive prison on a cosmic scale. So if your going to include it rather than the Abyss, the Nine Hells or Gehenna, why include it only to use it as a generic evil place full of enemy to swarm you? I mean just use the Abyss, the entire theme of Carceri is imprisonment and oppression, why include them as just a swarm.
    That whole section of the game fails because it is just a standard RPG, and not even a good one, Planescape’s strength is the fact that it is smart and unlike anything you’ve ever seen before, you lose that and you might as well not bother. So whenever it isn’t that, it fails. Another example, the Dustmen initiation quests are great because they all tie specifically into the philosophy of being a Dustmen, talking a guy out of killing himself (possibly by killing yourself in the process) finding a missionary to the undead, talking to a Dustmen Apostate etc. Great job establishing their ideology and making them feel distinct from any other group. So….what the hell is the deal with the Godsmen equivalent. You build an item, solve a terribly obvious murder mystery (really the character established as a tool did it, you don’t bloody say) and talk a guy out of suicide without context. How does that relate to their ideology? The Anarchists are just a series of terrorist attacks, which is disappointingly simple, the sensates you just join up, and nobody cares about the Chaosmen. If your storyline could be swapped into another game without much changing but the cosmetics, cut it and replace it with something imaginative.
    The absolute worse here though are Annan and Falls, both of whom are FAR less interesting than their other companion counterparts, and being more of a Betty and Veronica routine than actually being interesting in their own right. It is notable that they are the only two companions who don’t have a prior relationship with the NO that defines their torment, they just kinda join up. And I think the game really relies far too much on their basic physical appearance for the ‘look how weird they are’ quota, Annah is really normal except for a tail, and Falls is just a slightly quirky Victorian lady. Yes yes, she is a Succubus who runs a chaste brothel but that’s kind cosmetic, once you get over the joke there really isn’t much to them in terms of personality. Morte, Vhailor, Ignus, Nodrom, and the NO are all weird looking and have weird personalities. Dak’kon isn’t even that weird looking but his personality is really interesting and distinct. Morte is a pathological flirt with no self awareness who is aware deep down that he is the instigator of evil, Vahilor is an obsessive knight Templar who sees justice as a person, Dak’kon is a fantasy Zen Buddhist with a crisis of faith (and lawful among a chaotic race), Nodrom has free will for the first time along with individuality, and Falls/Annah are just…normal. I mean Falls has an interesting backstory but she has already basically finished her arc by the time we meet her, so there isn’t much there. And of course the romances are just so bog standard, one of them is prim and proper, one of them is all wild and angry, its as bog standard as you get. Which is funny because we see a romance here that actually does which, which is the fact that the NO and Ravel seem to have a legitimately affection relationship that is also abusive, creepy, horrible, and really unique. I mean the NO is defined as an abusive horrible person who destroys those he loves, which is why you have to leave all your friends at the end, and that should be reflected in any relationship with him. The Deionarra relationship is far more tragic and actually fits the tone of this game, but the relationships with Falls/Annah are in addition to just being dull aren’t really tragic. This game is about tragedy, abuse, and the bizarre, and there isn’t any of that in the canon relationships, they are just the standard issue Western RPG relationship dance. Be nice to the girl so she likes you more, and if you don’t want to date either well too bad the game will keep assuming that you are and will constantly force it on you. Really if at all possibly, rewrite the romances or cut them entirely, Torment is about death and passing on, not about romance and settling down, have the romance reflect that scene or don’t involve them at all.
    And of course what would Planescape Torment be without technical issues. I’m not going to go into much detail because I am sure Beamdog basically already has this covered, but seriously, how is it that the interface of PT is less intuitive than the Baldur’s Gate one? Having to right click my character three times to do a spell or turn invisible rather than using the menu is just absurd, but the UI has been pretty much handled by the rest of the forum here.
    Finally there is the question of scale. I don’t know how much of a remake this is, if it’s just tweaking but keeping the core game the same or if this really will be adding extra sections, but if it is the latter, what should be added? Well don’t make it an extra dungeon full of dangerous enemies, because that isn’t the core engagement of P:T, make it a place full of weird philosophical creatures, lots of really out there quests, and crazy characters, ideally in unique locals. If so, I think you have basically two options, either have a sort of walking tour of the Planescape world, or doing a Kirkwall thing and developing Sigil. If the former, we get to visit a few of the various planes, we could stop by the City of Brass for a spell, meet some adventurers in the Grey Wastes, have a diplomatic mission to the Seven Heavens and find treasure in Aborea. Or you could spend more time in the other parts of Sigil, because those are the best part of the game, I mean the Lower Ward and Lady’s Wars are one area each while the hive is 5 plus the two underground sections. Flesh the city out more, add more quests, more activities, more events, and more characters, which would be easier because you can just slot in a separate part of the city and integrate the whole thing.
    Ok finally nitpick time, small little things that just irritate me
    Firstly, why are so many companions unable to equip items, often for arbitrary reasons. Let everybody who can have tattoos have all of them and let Dak’kon and the NO have all of the earing slots so you don’t have so many cluttering up the inventory. Hell since Morte can’t carry anything, can we maybe put our extra eyes in him? Maybe a hat?
    Go through all of the moral decisions and ask yourself “is this action really evil? Is it really chaotic?”
    There are a lot of random items we can get that are useless, like the cobblestone or Adahn’s ring or the leather skeleton straps, can we not have them if they are useless or preferably give us things to do with them. If I carry that cobble stone around and that pays off in a quest, that would be amazing.
    The deal where you fight either Ignus or Vhailor is just silly and shouldn’t exist.
    Ok what should you not touch?
    Really like the fact that you are fighting with crutches, plybars, brass knuckles, my own arm, other people’s arms, keep that up.
    The feel of Sigil is really distinct from any other fantasy, don’t move away from that. The whole game feels like you are playing in the refuse of society, corpses, slums, factories, P:T is a game of the forgotten.
    Finally remember this, the whole appeal of Planescape and Torment in particular is to highlight what makes D&D different from other fantasies. Less elves, less orcs, far more with stuff like Modrons, the Blood War, the Alignment system, Sigil, the Planar structure, the Lady of Pain, stuff that makes D&D distinctly D&D. For that reason, don’t include references to Baldur’s Gate or FR as a whole, this is its own more cosmic thing.
    Most of the dialog should remain exactly where it is, adding new stuff is fine, changing the original is largely useless except small tweaks (like making it so you refuse to romance somebody without being constantly told you are in love please thank you). Most of the side quests that aren’t in Curst are great and shouldn’t be touched because they are perfectly fine as they are. Just add more, its not like sidequests don't distract from the main storyline.
    Don’t touch anything involving the NO’s main arch, his confrontation with the TO, when he learns his name, absorbing the incarnations, his flash backs, all that is pretty much perfect, don’t touch. Really don’t touch the ending. And the Ravel section is perfect.
    What you really don’t want to do is insert a sense of optimism to this game, the melancholy, tragic, resign pessimism is what makes Planescape distinct, really anything that makes PLanescape its own unique entity leave that alone or add more of it.

    Finally, Planescape Torments great appeal is that it is smart, it’s really smart. So don’t include stuff if it isn’t smart, this a game about philosophy, about big ideals, and about human nature, stick with that.
    Also I keep seeing people saying that this game won’t make money and I am just left confused because…it isn’t 1999 anymore? P:T is one of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, it’s reputation has increased far beyond what it had originally and a lot of people who have heard of “the greatest RPG of all time” would be inclined to check it out, particularly if unlike the original, this had an actual marketing budget behind it.
    P:T is amazing, but not perfect and the question should be "how can we made this better for 2017" not "How can we preserve the classic from 1999"

    Post edited by EvilElitest on
  • EvilElitestEvilElitest Member Posts: 3
    Actually let me go into detail about why Annah doesn't work. Because she isn't a fundamentally a bad character, the issue is that she really just doesn't fit here, beyond the tail thing she is so boring, she would be a perfectly fine character in BG or Neverwinter Knights but here she is just...kind of a person. You have a personification of Fire, a killer of mercy who is married to Justice itself, a floating skull, a D&D zen buddhist, Nodrom, a fallen Demon and then Annah is just...there. She doesn't have a philosophical undertone, she isn't defined by tragedy, she isn't pathological, she isn't fundamentally broken in some way (because Tieflings are pretty standard in PT), she doesn't have a connection to the NO, she isn't philosophical, she is just a person in a game which is about concepts more than people. She isn't a supernatural creature in the sense of the other characters or have a really supernatural element (like Dak'kon's sword)

    I mean the NO genuinely ruined the lives of most of their companions (Morte, Dak'kon, Vhailor).
    Her general arc is that she is a thief who lives in a really poor area who wants to be a good person but is too cowardly, a fine arc but it has been done before and really is way too mundane for Planescape. And that isn't addressing the fact that nothing really ever comes of that arc. And again, her having a tail just isn't that weird in a setting like Sigil.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 845
    edited August 2016
    Well hey, SoD has plenty of IWD II critters aswell. Wouldn't that logic apply the same?

    I need iwd2ee in my life :(

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,962
    Ravenloft is next here's why..
    Dee said:

    Okay, how about this:

    Spoilerific screenshots!

    Buttercheesemf2112FardragonJuliusBorisov
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,769
    Ikea being right next to castle Ravenloft explains a lot .

    sparkleavSethDavisJuliusBorisovTroodon80
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • EvilElitestEvilElitest Member Posts: 3

    You want P:T without any new content, its on GOG right now, go get it.

    Does GOG sell games I can play on my iPad? No?

    Then ME WANT PST:EE
    Fair enough, but giving up an opportunity to improve one of the greatest RPGs ever made would be a great waste

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  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,590
    edited August 2016
    pst like pre ee bg1 and 2 is alittle rough around the edges. it does not needed new content it just needs the things the the ee added on a technical level. [ removes load times, adds tool tips to show which equipment are better, zoom the camera out, etc.}

    and the most important thing: fixing the journal.

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