Triple class PC through BGII SoA and ToB

alceryes

So triple class PC's in BGI don't seem to miss out on much. The first couple level progressions are painfully slow, yes, but by mid-late game you are only a few levels behind the single class guys and power-wise are pretty much equal when taking into account the utility of having three classes.
I have yet to bring a triple class (let's say elven FMT) through BGII though. For those who have brought a triple class through BGII, was there any point in the game where you had to relegate your PC to support and casting-only tasks for a while? I want my FMT to be able to at least skirmish a bit throughout the whole game. I know he won't be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the single class tanks but I also don't want to end up with a PC that, after a certain level, can't even get near the action without putting his life in grave danger.
Thanks for your input.

joluv

You'll be able to tank better than any single-class character, because you'll have crucial defensive spells like Stoneskin and PfMW, plus a decent pool of hit points. A FMT will be strong throughout SoA and ToB, including in melee. Keep in mind that you won't get level 9 spells, though.

alceryes

Thanks joluv.
So buffed he'll be able to stand his ground okay.

Lord_Tansheron

alceryes said:

So buffed he'll be able to stand his ground okay.

No, he won't.

He'll be able to stand his ground so firmly the impact of a neutron star would not budge him.

FMT solo *DESTROYS* BG2. You'll tear through the (unmodded) game like a blowtorch through butter. Make no mistake, a solo FMT is much, much, MUCH better than any single class in the game. Including Sorcerer.

Gallenger

FMT is fine - depending on how you've distributed your thief points it gives you a lot of options for another thief in the party or obviates them altogether (freeing up slots for other stuff or soloing). It mainly depends on how you've built your FMT though - in BG1 it's pretty handy to build (somewhat) as an archer, but that pays off a lot less well in BG2 unless you prefer not to tank at all (what NPCs you want or don't want etc).

By the end of BG1 you should be pretty well good to go as a tank if you wish - it's only somewhat of a struggle until you hit mage level 3 - Mirror Image, Blur etc all make it pretty much impossible to do you major injury (especially stoneskin once you hit level 7) not to mention different anti-magic spells (globe of invulnerability and so forth).

In BG2 it may be a *little* tough going right out of the gate depending on which quests you like to do immediately after leaving Irenicus' dungeon mainly because your gear situation will be pretty dicey and you may not have all the spells you want.

alceryes

I plan on running a full party of six.
My main concern was that, due to the dilution of XP by a six pack party, and then again by the triple class PC, he would lag far enough behind other party members on levels that he wouldn't be able to go toe-to-toe with foes after a certain point.

I guess that's not the case.

Lord_Tansheron

Oh, you're not running solo? Must have misread that somewhere.

FMT is fine in parties, too. Slower progression, but you still get access to just about everything. I suppose there is the question of why FMT and not FM or FT, but if you want to give the triple a whirl don't let anything hold you back. FMT will do just fine at any point in the game.

alceryes

Lord_Tansheron said:

I suppose there is the question of why FMT and not FM or FT

With this run through I'm taking a full six pack and wanted the protagonist to be 'special'. Special in my book means options, lots of options. Heck, with the bhaalspawn abilities (and if you've been a good little adventurer) you're like a FMTC (albiet a low-level Cleric).

Edit - I'm also still in BGI, just thinking ahead.

RelSundan

FMT is a really good class, however you wont get any level 9 spells or mage HLA unless the cap is edited. I have solo'd the game with it, easier than going a full party since I wont have to care for anyone else.

Aerakar

I have thought about some time running a FMT, sort of like a Grey Mouser kind of character, but with continuing development of magical talent. But I have always been afraid of 3 classes and the slow level-ups, as I do not solo (I prefer small 3-4 member parties).

JuliusBorisov

You can check the table comparing a triple class character to other multiclass and single class characters here - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/700976/#Comment_700976. A FMT in a group in SoA and ToB is quite effective.

Lord_Tansheron

The level penalty actually becomes less and less relevant the higher you go, as scaling at very high levels isn't amazing. A lvl30 character is not all that much worse than a lvl40, whereas of course there is a universe of difference between a lvl10 and a lvl20.

For the FMT the only thing that actually hurts is losing access to lvl9 spells (with xp cap), as well as weird behavior on HLAs (this can be modded to allow true triple-class HLA selection). Being behind a few levels is hardly noticeable at end game.

FinneousPJ

To begin with, instead of thinking the FMT is a diluted FM, you should think of it as an improved FT. However, when you learn to use it to the fullest, incl. thief HLAs, it's actually way more powerful than a FM.

EDIT: For example, the FMT gets Time Trap at 3 M XP while the FM has to wait until 6 M XP to cast Time Stop.

alceryes

JuliusBorisov said:

You can check the table comparing a triple class character to other multiclass and single class characters here - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/700976/#Comment_700976. A FMT in a group in SoA and ToB is quite effective.

Ahhh, I never saw the 2nd chart with SoA XP included. Thx!

Aerakar

@FinneousPJ that is a neat way of looking at it, i.e. an improved FT. That changes my own perspective immensely (in a positive way).

Arunsun

A FMT is a jack-of-all-trades but also close to a "master-of-all-trades":
He is not as good a fighter with the same experience but he is close to that, especially from 750k exp on: he'll be only a couple of thac0 point and half an attack late.
Same goes for a thief: once you've reached 100 in find traps, open locks and set traps you're good to go. Okay you can't hide but you can cast invisibility from your mage spells which is just as good if not better. You'll be late backstab-wise for a while but then again a the difference between a *4 and a *5 multiplier is not that big
And he'll be much less good as a spellcaster, that's true. But he will not need to be godlike either. Invisibility is here to compensate for less HiS and MS points, the rest is only bonus.
The only reason you'd go for F/M or F=>M over FMT is level 9 spells, most notably time stop (you get the traps instead, and earlier on top of that), planetars and BBoD.

Contemplative_Hamster

I'm running a triple-class person right now - a gnome fighter 9-illusionist 10-thief 11 (a combination possible thanks to the Tweakpack), and have gone through BG:ee, SOD, and am running around in BG2:ee now. Everything is going fine. Everyone in the party has between 850.000-1,1 million EXP. Merrick, my CHARNAME, is a BEAST in combat, combining a big sword with Stoneskin, Fireshield, and Mirror Image, and is also a great thief with 100s in the important thief skills (I don't care for sneaking around). As for losing 9th level spells, well, that is a long way off still, and in any case it's Edwin's job to cast 9th level spells. I can beat this game without two high-powered single-class mages. My CHARNAME's role as amage is to cast utility, self-buffing, party-buffing and mage-disabling spells, and this role he fulfills admirably.

ThacoBell

FMT is probably my favorite build to run. I beat BG the first time with one. Funnily, I'm only just now doing a BG2 run into TOB with a FMT.

alceryes

rrchristensen said:

I'm running a triple-class person right now - a gnome fighter 9-illusionist 10-thief 11 (a combination possible thanks to the Tweakpack), and have gone through BG:ee, SOD, and am running around in BG2:ee now. Everything is going fine. Everyone in the party has between 850.000-1,1 million EXP. Merrick, my CHARNAME, is a BEAST in combat, combining a big sword with Stoneskin, Fireshield, and Mirror Image, and is also a great thief with 100s in the important thief skills (I don't care for sneaking around). As for losing 9th level spells, well, that is a long way off still, and in any case it's Edwin's job to cast 9th level spells. I can beat this game without two high-powered single-class mages. My CHARNAME's role as amage is to cast utility, self-buffing, party-buffing and mage-disabling spells, and this role he fulfills admirably.

Nice!
A Gnome FIT will definitely be more powerful thanks to the shorty saves, better thief bonuses, and extra casts per day. I don't plan on adding to MS/HiS either and am focusing on ST, ATM. PC is currently 5/5/6 and in BG city.
I may start adding points to DI as well. There a couple people on this forum who say it's the best thing since invisible sliced bread.

abacus

alceryes said:

rrchristensen said:

I'm running a triple-class person right now - a gnome fighter 9-illusionist 10-thief 11 (a combination possible thanks to the Tweakpack), and have gone through BG:ee, SOD, and am running around in BG2:ee now. Everything is going fine. Everyone in the party has between 850.000-1,1 million EXP. Merrick, my CHARNAME, is a BEAST in combat, combining a big sword with Stoneskin, Fireshield, and Mirror Image, and is also a great thief with 100s in the important thief skills (I don't care for sneaking around). As for losing 9th level spells, well, that is a long way off still, and in any case it's Edwin's job to cast 9th level spells. I can beat this game without two high-powered single-class mages. My CHARNAME's role as amage is to cast utility, self-buffing, party-buffing and mage-disabling spells, and this role he fulfills admirably.

Nice!
A Gnome FIT will definitely be more powerful thanks to the shorty saves, better thief bonuses, and extra casts per day. I don't plan on adding to MS/HiS either and am focusing on ST, ATM. PC is currently 5/5/6 and in BG city.
I may start adding points to DI as well. There a couple people on this forum who say it's the best thing since invisible sliced bread.

Detect Illusion really starts to come into its own in BG2, when you have to deal with high level mages protected by Improved Invisibility/ Simulacrum/ Mislead and similar defences.

alceryes

abacus said:

Detect Illusion really starts to come into its own in BG2, when you have to deal with high level mages protected by Improved Invisibility/ Simulacrum/ Mislead and similar defences.

Yeah, I only have one more level to gain for my 5/5/6 FMT in BG1 anyway and still have several levels of increasing ST before looking at DI. I'll definitely be in BGII by then.

apocoles

I have played through solo with FMT and also with a group with FMT as protagonist. I found solo FMT play through to be easier than a 6 man party for many encounters. Be sure to mod to remove xp cap, oter wise you'll cap xp quickly, and that's very boring. FMT gets really strong when you gain several prestige abilities at high level. Fun to use the +5 paladin only greatsword, with the use any item perk.
http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Carsomyr

It's sad that you will find few equipment upgrades.

I think it's a funner experience to play with a 3 person party: fighter mage and a thief. 3 Characters to outfit is more fun.

I have also solod the game and expansion with mage, bounty hunter and berserker. Though the expansion is very difficult to solo with a single classser. Traps are very useful for defeating many bosses.

FMT ought to be neutral with proficiecies in greatswords and longswords. Minimal strength, go find the ogre str gauntlets / belt first.

After powerplaying through this game many times, I find playing with a small party to be more interesting than solo or with 6.

After writing this post, I want to make a fighter/thief protagonist. Use any item perk makes a fighter pretty intense. Perhaps add another plate wearer and a mage (let's be honest, clerics rather lack usefulness).