Ranger with Edwin in the party?

Bertle

I want to start a new game as a ranger but I want Edwin in my party because Aerie and Nalia both annoy the crap out of me. I also want to avoid becoming a fallen ranger and there seems to be a bit of inconsistency as to whether you fall only under 8 reputation or if ANY reputation drop can trigger it.

Since I will have to drop my reputation a couple of times to keep Edwin in the party, I was wondering if anyone could clarify this before I get too far in the game?

TheArtisan

There is a set amount of reputation that you must stay above to keep your status. Losing reputation is fine so long as you don't cross that line, otherwise no ranger would be able to recruit Viconia. However, be warned that there's a limited number of opportunities to lower your reputation without resorting to killing innocents.

Bertle

Thanks for the info! Could you not just pickpocket merchants you don't like? Or is that one of those "seriously evil" things like killing innocents?

TheArtisan

I've been using Rogue Rebalancing which changes pickpocket reactions for so long that I don't remember how vanilla behavior works too well, but as I recall failing a pickpocket will turn them hostile permanently, which while not gamebreaking can be a massive annoyance, and I don't even remember if it even hits your reputation if you don't kill them.

sarevok57

the highest reputation you can have with an evil person on your team is 18, as long as you don't go pass that, they will never leave even if they are threatening to do so ( or it might be 17, not 100% sure which one)

so you have lots of wiggle room there, just make sure if you do quests where you can claim REP ( like the circus tent for example) just don't claim it

plus here are a couple ways to lower it without killing anyone

if you do the evil path of the "buried alive" quest - where the dude was in the grave and gives you the red piece of cloth- and when you go to save the noble woman, if you collect the ransom instead of saving her, you will lose 2 REP points

when talking to daleson in nalia's keep, if you are real mean to him and threaten him and tell him to start running away from you, you will lose 4 REP points

so between those 2 options, and the fact there this isn't too many quests that dish out REP ( espeically the ones that you can avoid) you should be able to stay below 18 and be fine

also some quest have the kind of "evil" path where instead of getting REP, you just don't get the REP instead

like when you save the town of trademeet and if you choose one of the noble families to find the mantle, the "proper" way is to give it to logan and get 1 REP point, or you can give it to the noble you chose and then good times will happen, no REP loss, but no REP earned either

Arunsun

Just go to Spellhold before you reach 18 reputation (that's when evil characters leave), you'll have your way of lowering your reputation by a small amount (2points) at will then.
Basically you gotta stay between 8 and 18, and will start at 11-12 (as you will be good-aligned), which leaves you some leeway.

sarevok57

if you are going to use the the special ability you get from spell hold to lose 2 REP each time, make sure keldorn isn't on your team

if keldorn is on your team and you use the special ability you get from spell hold, he will go hostile and attack you, and you can never get him back

Bertle

Thanks for the tips everyone!
Would it also work to swap Viconia in and out (assuming I'm not romancing her) until the rep is where I want it?

Arunsun

Bertle said:

Thanks for the tips everyone!
Would it also work to swap Viconia in and out (assuming I'm not romancing her) until the rep is where I want it?

When you remove her from your team your reputation increases again. Same goes for Dorn

ThacoBell

If I recall correctly, evil NPCs only leave when your reputation rises above 18. So if you have 20 when they join, you don't have to worry about losing them. Of course, this doesn't work with NPCs that lower rep just by recruiting them. Shouldn't matter for Edwin though.

OrlonKronsteen

Tweaks also has a component called Happy Patch, which gives you a couple options for handling reputation. IIRC you can set it so NPCs will never complain about reputation or leave your party, or you can set it so they'll still complain, but never leave. I've never installed that component myself so I can't testify to its effectiveness, but it is an option. I've been thinking about it lately because the rep system is a bit of a pain sometimes.

GhavGrim

If killing innocents is a RP issue for you...go to sleep at an inn. Edwin wakes up early and slips out, intent on murderous mischief. RP Edwin , disintegrate some lowly peasant as Edwin experiments on him, then return to the inn and take it from there.

It might make you think more carefully about what kind of person you're hanging out with though...

Bertle

Less RP issue, more don't-want-all-the-crappy-consequences-of-being-a-fallen-ranger issue. I like your style though!

Thanks for all the help everyone! I'll give the suggestions a try.

Arunsun

By the way, should you fall, if you complete your ranger stronghold quest while fallen but with good enough reputation you'll be restored.

Clumsy_Dwarf

What I want to know is, why would Edwin leave? He is following the Protagonist to gain power in his wake. It just seems he is more "selfish evil" and staying with a powerful group is in his best, long term, interests.

I also wish if you donated to the church of Talos, you lose rep. You could RP it as the evil NPC using their "cut" of the gold for their own ends.

Jouni

Clumsy_Dwarf said:

What I want to know is, why would Edwin leave? He is following the Protagonist to gain power in his wake. It just seems he is more "selfish evil" and staying with a powerful group is in his best, long term, interests.

Edwin is not a sensible person. He has high INT but average WIS. He is arrogant and has a lot of strong opinions. Such people tend to make bad decisions when things go blatantly against their wishes. They can fail to see reason when they are full of themselves and blinded by their opinions.

GhavGrim

Jouni said:

Clumsy_Dwarf said:

What I want to know is, why would Edwin leave? He is following the Protagonist to gain power in his wake. It just seems he is more "selfish evil" and staying with a powerful group is in his best, long term, interests.

Edwin is not a sensible person. He has high INT but average WIS. He is arrogant and has a lot of strong opinions. Such people tend to make bad decisions when things go blatantly against their wishes. They can fail to see reason when they are full of themselves and blinded by their opinions.

God knows I do.

Clumsy_Dwarf

Jouni said:

Clumsy_Dwarf said:

What I want to know is, why would Edwin leave? He is following the Protagonist to gain power in his wake. It just seems he is more "selfish evil" and staying with a powerful group is in his best, long term, interests.

Edwin is not a sensible person. He has high INT but average WIS. He is arrogant and has a lot of strong opinions. Such people tend to make bad decisions when things go blatantly against their wishes. They can fail to see reason when they are full of themselves and blinded by their opinions.

You can deal is what he might have done but through the whole game, he is consistent in his assertion that he is only there to get what scraps from the Protagonist's table he can get. If this is his attitude there is no reason he would leave.

Jouni

Clumsy_Dwarf said:

You can deal is what he might have done but through the whole game, he is consistent in his assertion that he is only there to get what scraps from the Protagonist's table he can get. If this is his attitude there is no reason he would leave.

There is always a petty little person behind the facade of professionalism. Push the professional beyond the limit, and they suddenly snap and become the most unreasonable and stupid person you've ever met.

iavasechui

Well if you don't plan to romance her you could always have Viconia around to kick and readd for the -2 rep when she joins you.

UnderstandMouseMagic

The rep system is altogether whack.

People who are "evil" and have nefarious purposes would do anything and everything to have a high rep in order to cover up their true goals. It makes life much easier when getting away with world domination, nobody believes the naysayers.

Reputation is a measure of power anyway, it's irritating that Edwin the most intelligent NPC, has been written to act stupid about this. Nothing to do with wisdom.

The goody two shoes don't need rep as their actions will be proof of their goodliness.

Otherguy

Nothing about the reputation system makes any sense at all.

Picking the good option often gives you better rewards. Rewards tend to matter most in the beginning, especially because it is also good to hover around 16-18 rep when buying scrolls and good gear even for evil parties.

When in danger of getting a too high reputation my most elegant resolution is to go help Nalia with her quest. She has an aunt. Massive rep loss. Problem solved.

iavasechui

Arunsun said:

Bertle said:

Thanks for the tips everyone!
Would it also work to swap Viconia in and out (assuming I'm not romancing her) until the rep is where I want it?

When you remove her from your team your reputation increases again. Same goes for Dorn

Wait when did this get changed?

Gah well if you don't mind mods I believe the Edwin romance mod won't allow him to leave the party if you are romancing him. Also I believe there is another one that prevents npcs from leaving based on rep though if you kick them when you are at too high or low rep they do leave forever. Did they ever do a bardic rep adjustment for bg2? I know in bg1 there is a mod that add bards at the inns who can be paid to lower your rep much like using church donations to raise it.

TheArtisan

This was the case since vanilla BG.

iavasechui

could have sworn you could exploit viconia for rep adjustment I don't usually take evil characters though for the exact reason that i hate adjusting rep

TheArtisan

You can, but the method is:

1) Kick all evil party members out at 18 rep, leaving Viconia for last. Your reputation jumps to 20.
2) Do reputation-increasing event - your rep stays at 20 since it can't go any higher.
3) Re-recruit Viconia, bumping your rep back to 18.
4) Re-recruit all evil party members.

pvddr

Since we're on topic, let me highjack this thread a little bit... does anyone know if it's possible to have a Paladin charname and Dorn in the same party? How does Dorn's quest interact with the Paladin stronghold?

Arunsun

pvddr said:

Since we're on topic, let me highjack this thread a little bit... does anyone know if it's possible to have a Paladin charname and Dorn in the same party? How does Dorn's quest interact with the Paladin stronghold?

It is technically possible, though Dorn's first quest will change the NPCs in the Radiant Heart building and the usual NPCs (The Paladins, the Prelate etc...) will never come back. You could however do all the Radiant Heart-related quests including stronghold before recruiting Dorn.

TheArtisan

Arunsun said:

pvddr said:

Since we're on topic, let me highjack this thread a little bit... does anyone know if it's possible to have a Paladin charname and Dorn in the same party? How does Dorn's quest interact with the Paladin stronghold?

It is technically possible, though Dorn's first quest will change the NPCs in the Radiant Heart building and the usual NPCs (The Paladins, the Prelate etc...) will never come back. You could however do all the Radiant Heart-related quests including stronghold before recruiting Dorn.

You can restore the Radiant Heart to normal by kicking Dorn out. I think you can even re-recruit him afterwards and the area will stay as normal, not sure.