Magic Clubs in BG II: EE and ToB

justfeelinathome

So, there's a character I always wanted to play and with the advent of Legacy of Bhaal-mode I've got another reason to do so: A dual from Beast Master to Cleric (I plan on activating Druid spells for level four to seven by editing .lua).

What I like about this is that not only my numerous Summons get bonus HP, but my familiar as well, giving me a delightful 22 HP extra in Candlekeep on my PC.

It's not all peachy, however: I get not one, but two restrictions on my weaponry, banning piercing, slashing and metal, as well as most missile weapons. What remains? Quarterstaves, Clubs and Slings. Since as a ranger sub-class I get Two-Weapon Style for free, and Clubs are my only one-handed option, I was wondering: What would I use on my off-hand if the Club of Detonation is on my main?

I know of Gnasher (+2), Blackblood (+3) and the Staff Mace (Quarterstaff, +2) as possible options, but I'd like to know if there is any +4 or higher options I couldn't think of. There's also the Root of the Problem, but that's just +1 AND tied to the druid-stronghold. I'll get it, however, since it is in SoD and has been on the weapon import list for a while now, IIRC, which I am glad about.

So, back on topic: Are Clubs the blunt Katanas of this game? Should there be a warning on the proficiency in character creation? What do you recommend?

Kurona

The Club of Detonation can be pretty effective if you prepare yourself for the drawback of an AoE fireball on hit. It's +4 and can be upgraded to +5 I think. That's pretty much it for clubs though.

Lord_Tansheron

The Club of Detonation+5 is actually one of the most damaging weapons in the game even without accounting for the fireball proc. Of course, that proc does make it a bit tricky to use as it'll smash your party and/or any innocent bystanders. If you're solo and careful, though, you can also abuse that by stacking fire resistance - get it over 100 and you'll actually be healed by the proc.

I believe there is one more club you mentioned, the Bone Club+2. Not that's particularly amazing or anything... There is no +4 club in the unmodded game and only one +5 (Detonation). Everything else is +3 or worse.

justfeelinathome

Kurona said:

The Club of Detonation can be pretty effective if you prepare yourself for the drawback of an AoE fireball on hit. It's +4 and can be upgraded to +5 I think. That's pretty much it for clubs though.

It's +3 by default, but becomes +5 early in ToB. I think the fireball isn't that bad, but that's just because I'm not 0-reloading.

smeagolheart

Speaking of clubs, I highly recommend this mod

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/34524/distinguishable-clubs-weidu-update-1-1/p1

Ihatememes

I'd go with staff and two-handed weaponstyle for big crits. There are so many good ones. You can buy Staff of Rynn +4 before you even go to Brynnlaw and smack every enemy in the game. Then you get Staff of Woodlands which was made for Druid, then at the end you get Staff of the Ram +6 which is one of the best weapons in the game, really heavy damage and when it procs it's a stunning homerun.

lunar

^I agree. Staff+two handed is better. A staff has reach. With two pips in two handed style, a staff has speed zero. This is a winning combination. You can instantly smack from a safe range, and then flee/kite for a round and when your attack is available again, you can smack a second time. A slow meleer can not touch you at all. Ogres and such are easy preys for a staff master.

Needless to say, staves are excellent weapons in bg2, with very damaging (striking,ram) and utility options (fire, air). Very useful in bg1 too, staff of striking is brutal for bg1 levels and you can buy the powerful +3 staff from Ulgoth's Inn, it is all the weapon you need for bg1.

justfeelinathome

I wholeheartedly agree that staves are likely the superior option in both games. However, they also tend to be an option I overuse in general (on all casters, Druids get it first for me and a staff Kensai in the recent past come to mind), which is why I'd like to switch things up a little bit and go for a different approach.

Blackblood doesn't look as bad on a second look since it's 1d6+3, +3 acid damage and I thought that the acid replaced normal damage. It would thematically be a great fit if I also went for trolls as racial enemy, fighting them with both fire and acid...

EDIT: Also, with that few options I'll likely get to both proficiencies eventually.

Also, what came to mind is Neeras ToB quest, where you

get to the Black Pits; what's the best they are selling there in terms of weapons? I'm hoping for maybe a vanilla Club +4, or something like that.

Sidetracking on the topic of mods: Also, while I appreciate each modding recommendation I never managed to mod my (Mac) version of the game, presumably mainly because I just ain't a homo faber technicus (I tried 'Unfinished Business' and 'Ascension', since they seemed to be semi-official, working with pre-existing files and ideas; fan-creations are great for keeping the game-community alive and healthy in the long run, but I don't like the strong divergence in the narrative tone/dialogue). Just my 2 cents. Thx, @smeagolheart

FinnTheHuman

Gnasher, from the druid grove, is pretty allright. +2 thaco, +2 damage (piercing?), but also an aditional +2 for two rounds. Although its nowhere as effective as poison, there's a chance to use it as a caster disrupter. Really not the best offhand choice, but worth a mention.

Lord_Tansheron

There are no good choices for the offhand when it comes to clubs, really. None of them confer noteworthy benefits outside of their damage.

Despite the free TWF pips for Rangers, you may simply want to consider going 1h or using a 1h+shield. Or 2h for staff, as was suggested already.

justfeelinathome

...I'm also able to use a shield with my sling, so that's an offhand that's used twice. Good to consider.

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Lord_Tansheron

Using weapons with abilities other than dealing damage is considered cheese now?

I see the definition expands more freely than my waistline during chocolate season.

smeagolheart

justfeelinathome said:

I wholeheartedly agree that staves are likely the superior option in both games. However, they also tend to be an option I overuse in general (on all casters, Druids get it first for me and a staff Kensai in the recent past come to mind), which is why I'd like to switch things up a little bit and go for a different approach.

Blackblood doesn't look as bad on a second look since it's 1d6+3, +3 acid damage and I thought that the acid replaced normal damage. It would thematically be a great fit if I also went for trolls as racial enemy, fighting them with both fire and acid...

EDIT: Also, with that few options I'll likely get to both proficiencies eventually.

Also, what came to mind is Neeras ToB quest, where you

get to the Black Pits; what's the best they are selling there in terms of weapons? I'm hoping for maybe a vanilla Club +4, or something like that.

Sidetracking on the topic of mods: Also, while I appreciate each modding recommendation I never managed to mod my (Mac) version of the game, presumably mainly because I just ain't a homo faber technicus (I tried 'Unfinished Business' and 'Ascension', since they seemed to be semi-official, working with pre-existing files and ideas; fan-creations are great for keeping the game-community alive and healthy in the long run, but I don't like the strong divergence in the narrative tone/dialogue). Just my 2 cents. Thx, @smeagolheart

Not all mods are equal, the one I linked doesn't have dialogue to diverge in tone. I agree in general and avoid npc mods and one that seem overly ambitious because none seem to match the originals to me. Suggest trying again someday to get mods working if you find the time, for example my minor portraits mod adds pics to NPCs and is just a flavor thing but I think makes a noticeable difference in immersion.

lroumen

Staff mace is also nice to use. One handed 2d4+2 damage. A bit more than clubs and dependent on character choice relatively early to find.

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

Arunsun

subtledoctor said:

Also: cheese and chocolate together? Gross.

You know nothing, Jon Subtledoctor

Back to the thread, I have a question:
If you dual, say, at level 9, which is common for fighter-type duals, you'll have level one spells only as a ranger. But will you have all the level 1-3 druid spells (and 4-7 as well if you enable the option) when you get your abilities back? More specificially, the animal summoning spells as level 1-3 spells you get from being a beast master, will you have them (you'll have the first, but what about the two others, since you never reached the appropriate ranger level?). That's one specific interaction I do not know, so if anyone has any insight, it'd be welcome.

Now concerning your dilemma:
As it already was said, you'll be limited to three weapons: Staves, Slings and Clubs. So basically with a total of 8 pips you'll be able to:
Get 2 pips in all three of them
Complete TWF (one pip)
Get 1 pip in THW

All the other pips are rather worthless, or at least they will make little difference. So you do not really have to make a choice between clubs and quarterstaves in midgame or lategame. The only moment when it matters is early game (Till you have pips everywhere).
Past that point which you'll reach rather early in SoA, so long as they can hit your target, dual-wielded Blackblood and Gnasher are way better than staves in SoA, providing better DPR than even Staff of the Ram+4 if your STR is high enough (19 is enough, for example) which you should always have from either STR belt or priest spells. The only issue is that sometimes they cannot hit their target, so for these specific fights you must have a back-up solution which can be either slings or staves, as both will have solutions.
Damage-wise, slings are better if you can attack from a distance (which you should be able to, with your summons), at least till you get Staff of the Ram.

By the way I am not too sure why you guys say staves are better in both games. With EE there are magical clubs in BG1 (a +1 club accessible very early, a +2 one available in cloakwood), though I'd use slings rather than clubs or staves (Armor limitation prevents you from having a decent AC, which is all-important if you want to go melee in BG1), which makes them viable options, and they are arguably better than staves most of the time in BG2.

TL;DR: here's how I'd do it:
Proficiencies:
Lvl1: ** in clubs, ** in slings
Lvl3: *** in TWF
Lvl6: * In Staves
Lvl9: ** in Staves
(Lvl12 if you dual that late:*in THW)

Weapon use:
Dual-wielded clubs whenever they can hit
When clubs cannot hit:
Slings if I don't have Staff of the Ram
Staff of the Ram otherwise

RelSundan

lunar said:

^I agree. Staff+two handed is better. A staff has reach. With two pips in two handed style, a staff has speed zero. This is a winning combination. You can instantly smack from a safe range, and then flee/kite for a round and when your attack is available again, you can smack a second time. A slow meleer can not touch you at all. Ogres and such are easy preys for a staff master.

Needless to say, staves are excellent weapons in bg2, with very damaging (striking,ram) and utility options (fire, air). Very useful in bg1 too, staff of striking is brutal for bg1 levels and you can buy the powerful +3 staff from Ulgoth's Inn, it is all the weapon you need for bg1.

Maybe already mentioned, didn't read all the posts. But isn't the staff of Ram acquired from Saladrex?

justfeelinathome

Thanks to everyone for the advice! Enkidu has successfully been rolled and rolled out of Candlekeep. These are his (quite good) stats:

I decided to stick with clubs (to break with power gaming and usual weapon-habits) and use longbows (to stick with power gaming and usual weapon-habits) for the time being, since I'll have plenty proficiencies to spare anyways. I plan to dual late because I'll need to get to level 12 to unlock the summons.

Since I never had a ranger PC before and never did their stronghold, this also comes in handy and I might get level 13 as well for the bonus APR (that's 1.5 million and 1.35 to get my skills back, but I don't mind power-leveling).

So far (level 5, at the moment), I thoroughly enjoy this character! Especially the familiar on LoB-difficulty is great.