Does it matter to you if mod content is "official AD&D"?

chimeric

Do you care if new creatures, spells etc. are from pen-and-paper AD&D (with adaptations, obviously), or are fan inventions just as acceptable?

jesterdesu

Pillars of eternity was made bad imo because of the deviation from true d&d. Much of the reason I keep playing bg is because they stay much truer to it.

redline

A certain degree of deviation from the source material is expected. The original kits (as listed in class-specific supplements) were, in many cases, pretty poorly defined and Bioware had to improvise to come up with kit definitions that fit the context of a CRPG. A similar kind of approach for fan content is fine with me, but I prefer that it at least have its roots in D&D.

Oddly enough, I've never played PnP. I just like the feeling of legitimacy that comes from having a class, kit or spell that's semi-"official".

Kamigoroshi

Let's be honest: anything officially published by TSR and WotC is nothing but guide lines. Blueprints which DM's alter as they fit for their own campaigns. Mods are just that: house rules made for computer games.

If someone, for example, wants to replace @elminster 's Beer of Choice with Swedish Bitters. And decides to share the completed mod with the community, great! Is the theoretical result true to AD&D? No. But it would be true to spirits!

Clumsy_Dwarf

Would I expect my DM to stick to everything world for word and not be imaginative? Not at all. Some of the best monsters and spells have been DM/player creations. I have never seen the rule books as "This is all there can ever be to the game".

Lord_Tansheron

Rules are arbitrary. Make your own, as long as they make sense to YOU it's fine.

JumboWheat01

I'm all for mods of the sort, but it needs to stick with the spirit and theme of the game. For instance, all those... THOSE mods that Skyrim has. Avoid them like the plague. But the ones that stick to the spirit of the Elder Scrolls series, totally all about those.

dunbar

My initial reaction was along the lines of 'as long as it sticks to the spirit of the game etc.', but then I realised that I was thinking of PnP, where the DM usually regards the manuals as loose guidelines that can be interpreted as he or she sees fit in order to ensure smooth, balanced and entertaining play.

However, when it comes to a crpg that is played by God knows how many people all over the world I think it's important that we're all reading from the same book and know where the boundaries are (to mix a metaphor or two). I would also worry that 'off-piste' modding might eventually cause the feel of the game to drift too far from the original (although that could equally be viewed as a case of positive evolution).

shawne

There's a middle ground here, really. Mods don't necessarily have to correspond word-for-word with what some rulebook says, since those rules were designed for tabletop, not video games - you'd have to have at least some translation and reconfiguration just to accommodate that. But I do think the best mods are the ones that are true to the spirit of the game: characters who are designed and written first and foremost to fit in with the setting and plot, items with lore that makes sense in context, quests that are within the ballpark of what your PC would actually do, etc.

scriver

Option chosen with obvious reservations concerning quality, how well it fits the game (which is what is really important), and so on.

ThacoBell

jesterdesu said:

Pillars of eternity was made bad imo because of the deviation from true d&d. Much of the reason I keep playing bg is because they stay much truer to it.

Pillars wasn't designed to be DnD. Games aren't bad just because they occupy a different universe/rules.

Fardragon

thedamages said:

jesterdesu said:

Pillars of eternity was made bad imo because of the deviation from true d&d. Much of the reason I keep playing bg is because they stay much truer to it.

Pillars wasn't designed to be DnD. Games aren't bad just because they occupy a different universe/rules.

PoE works too hard to try and reinvent the wheel though. It does things differently purely for the sake of being different, leading to a system that is counterintuitive and only understood by the computer.

D&D survived so long when so many other PnP RPGs have come and gone because the rules are straightforward and easy to pick up.

joluv

I still haven't played PoE, but from what I've seen it sometimes looks less like proper original material and more like D&D stuff tweaked just enough to avoid intellectual property disputes. I know that doesn't apply to everything in the game, but it still seemed to have a bit of a knock-off aura.

Buttercheese

I am gonna assume that you don't actually mean AD&D but D&D in general, cause I never played AD&D as P&P, because that was way before my time (I grew up on 3.5 and Pathfinder).

That being said, house rules rule.

Troodon80

When it comes to the game, I can respect the fact that not every piece of mod content can be to the strictest rules. I don't think anyone would expect it; there are countless examples of the core game not being exactly to the rules—I like to think of them more as guidelines. Guidelines that I would try to get as close as possible to, but guidelines nevertheless. That said, I like it when mods take influence from the guidebooks, campaign modules, and supplements; but, in my opinion, when it comes to mod content you can do whatever you want. Though, ideally, as long as it is in the spirit of D&D/AD&D.

shawne said:

There's a middle ground here, really. Mods don't necessarily have to correspond word-for-word with what some rulebook says, since those rules were designed for tabletop, not video games - you'd have to have at least some translation and reconfiguration just to accommodate that.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Certain engine limitations mean that some things from the spell listings are simple not possible. The fourth level mage spell "Lower Water," for example—I can only see that working as a special spell similar to the Stoneshape scroll used to collapse the tunnel in the Underdark in BG2. Maybe as a way to clear the Cloakwood Mine of water at a later stage, but not something for general usage.

Avenger_teambg

Troodon80 said:

When it comes to the game, I can respect the fact that not every piece of mod content can be to the strictest rules. I don't think anyone would expect it; there are countless examples of the core game not being exactly to the rules—I like to think of them more as guidelines. Guidelines that I would try to get as close as possible to, but guidelines nevertheless. That said, I like it when mods take influence from the guidebooks, campaign modules, and supplements; but, in my opinion, when it comes to mod content you can do whatever you want. Though, ideally, as long as it is in the spirit of D&D/AD&D.

shawne said:

There's a middle ground here, really. Mods don't necessarily have to correspond word-for-word with what some rulebook says, since those rules were designed for tabletop, not video games - you'd have to have at least some translation and reconfiguration just to accommodate that.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Certain engine limitations mean that some things from the spell listings are simple not possible. The fourth level mage spell "Lower Water," for example—I can only see that working as a special spell similar to the Stoneshape scroll used to collapse the tunnel in the Underdark in BG2. Maybe as a way to clear the Cloakwood Mine of water at a later stage, but not something for general usage.

You could use it to slow water elementals... but, how useful would that be

chimeric

Certain unlikely spells might be possible to implement via triggers. Like Levitate. There is no flying in a 2D game, but you could make it castable at pre-placed trigger boxes, the same ones that could be used for thief wall-climbing.

ThacoBell

Fardragon said:

thedamages said:

jesterdesu said:

Pillars of eternity was made bad imo because of the deviation from true d&d. Much of the reason I keep playing bg is because they stay much truer to it.

Pillars wasn't designed to be DnD. Games aren't bad just because they occupy a different universe/rules.

PoE works too hard to try and reinvent the wheel though. It does things differently purely for the sake of being different, leading to a system that is counterintuitive and only understood by the computer.

D&D survived so long when so many other PnP RPGs have come and gone because the rules are straightforward and easy to pick up.

At this point I guess its just a matter of taste. I think POE did several things a lot better than the Baldur's Gate games.

JumboWheat01

I haven't actually played or seen anything for Pillars of Eternity. Is it at least better than Sword Coast Legends?

ThacoBell

@JumboWheat01 I never played or seen anything from sword coast legends XD so I couldn't tell you.

Fardragon

JumboWheat01 said:

I haven't actually played or seen anything for Pillars of Eternity. Is it at least better than Sword Coast Legends?

Sure, PoE is far superior. It has proper conversations!

Thery aren't really comperable. PoE is a Balder's Gate clone in a different (but not very different) setting, with a ropey set of house rules, a less epic plot, and a humour bipass. SCL is a Diabolo clone set in the Forgotten Realms.

dib

I couldn't care less about D&D as such, but I do appreciate it when mod (or any) content is consistent and blends in with the rest of the game.