New content idea: Game within the game

Alderic

After once again getting frustrated with BG2's real time playing requirements for romances, I started thinking of a cool way to pass time while in the game. You know, something that can be done repeatedly inbetween major quests, that would soften up the feel that every minute of the party's time goes to saving villages, fighting dragons and chasing mages (things most of us do too fast for the romance dialogues to appear in full anyway).

What if a mini-game is introduced, maybe some fantasy card game that can be accessed within the world of BG:EE, for example in taverns? There can be some stimulus to play the game, such as gold, special items or even a side quest. I guess you can spice it up by letting your character play against party members and even make them react to the results. I think such an addition would bring even more alternative playtime to the BG series. I think it's a good idea to go for a DLC, after the base game is released.

Sure, it's nothing new. The best analogue I can think of is the fantasy game Acromage, that you could play in Might & Magic 7. A related side quest required you to win one game in every tavern. Though the card game was fairly simple, I remember I spent quite some time playing it and it was fun too. Hell, after google-ing it, it seems the mini-game lived some life on its own too and even has e site devoted to it

Infern0

Triple Triad all over again :-(

But seriously, if it was well implemented i'd be all for it, I particularly like the idea of being able to play against NPC's

oysteingrondahl

When I read the title of the thread, I instantly thought of Arcomage for MM7. When I read your post that thought was strengthened, and suddenly you mentioned it too

I actually want to go back to MM7 to play it again. It was a great feeling when you finally found a new town, and could check one more tavern off the list. The fast travel system of BG would diminish the feeling of traveling for a long time to get to a new town, but I do support the idea of such a card game.

Fluid29

I instantly thought of Knights of the Old Republic and Pazaak. Good card game. Somehow i like the idea. Pazaak was always fun. The card game should imo of course be adjusted to fit the fantasy dnd theme. Maybe a card game about dwarves elves drow human etc. Could be kinda cool if worked out well.

moody_mage

Oh my god. No more card games... ever... please...

Wiggles

Not to derail the thread, but since you did bring up Arcomage...

There's an app for it on the Droid. (Not sure about iPhone) It's called Archmage. Have fun! xD

Heckler

Pazaak was good ,so was the dice game in the Witcher . There was also Caravan in Fallout.New Vegas but I could never figure it out . I like the idea tho .

BelgarathMTH

Ah, good old Arcomage - I loved that mini-game. I had forgotten about Pazaak, although I didn't like that one as much.

Shin

Wouldn't mind it per se if it was well developed and had the same feel to it as the rest of the game/setting.

However:

Alderic said:

(things most of us do too fast for the romance dialogues to appear in full anyway)

is a problem I don't think I've ever had. Usually my BG2 romance will have run its full course before I even set off for Brynnlaw. And that's even if I deliberately try to stall it a bit, e.g. don't pick up Viconia until after doing some other stuff like de'Arnise Keep first.

CaptRory

My problem with Pazaak was the computer cheating. If the game is fair I'm all for it.

Dougie

I wonder if it's too late to do something about enhancing weapons. One of the problems with Jaheira is that you're stuck with either an ordinary club or a might-break-any-time scimitar. It seems inconceivable that Taerom the blacksmith couldn't knock up a scimitar +1 for you, or enhance a club you already have. All for a decent price, obviously.

CaptRory

Isn't there a magic scimitar on the top of Durlag's Tower? I know there are a few spears scattered around.

griffiano

What was the card game in final fantasy 8? that was addictive

Kaxon

Please, no. Tacking on a minigame is one of the worst things they could add in the enhanced edition. One of the best things about Baldur's Gate is that it doesn't have any card game, monster catching, chocobo breeding type nonsense.

Alderic

Kaxon said:

Please, no. Tacking on a minigame is one of the worst things they could add in the enhanced edition. One of the best things about Baldur's Gate is that it doesn't have any card game, monster catching, chocobo breeding type nonsense.

I think a mini-game would add more colour to the original game universe. After all, it's called new content because it would add something to the game, not take away anything. For this reason, @Kaxon, I fail to see your point. In fact, one of the best things about Baldur's Gate is the possibility to implement new ideas and and enrich the experience (either through new official content, or - traditionally - through mods). For people who feel a mini-game will spoil their entire concept of BG: well, the best solution is to release it as DLC. That way you can always choose to ignore it. Problem solved.

Finally, I guess the suggestion I made is just wishfull thinking. I would pay a couple of extra bucks for a well-implemented mini-game DLC, whether it's a fantasy card game or something else with a high potential for replayability. However, I'm already 100% hooked up on the current BG:EE concept with or without any additions. It's up to the developers to actually release further DLCs or not. Regardless, I think they did some excellent work from what I've seen so far. :P

CaptRory

Anyone else think it'd be fun to have a side-quest about playing chess culminating with a living chess board where you move people around and losses mean those people are killed off. With interesting effects for advancing a pawn to an actual piece. "Timmy the Kidnapped Farmer just became Queen Tabitha." "I didn't see that coming..."

stygga

You can leave the game paused, go out for lunch, work, whatever, and come back and unpause and you'll usually get a romance dialogue immediately.

cyberhawk

The best chess game was in Durlags Tower, somewhere towards the end. I'd like more chess games like that, maybe the Black Pits will have something similar.

Shin

@cyberhawk Have to say I agree with @CaptRory in that I'd prefer a somewhat more traditional chess game. The Durlag's Tower one is a good idea, but rather than chess it ends up feeling like more of an all-out battle, better handled by a massive fireball volley than any kind of actual chess strategy.

For reference, I would say I prefer the chess encounter in Karazhan in World of Warcraft. Of course, given the limitations of the engine in BG, I suppose it would be difficult to make it more chess like. Enemy playing pieces having to obey the same rules as the party would be a good start though.

Tentatively, it should be possible to design it akin to the "hero quest" mini adventure in Watcher's Keep where you control a warrior in a dungeon, except that you control your full party that way on a chess board. Turn-based and moving one character at a time, with the AI doing the same. In the end though, that would require implementing an actual chess AI, which may be beyond the scope of the engine.

moody_mage

This doesn't enhance the idea of feel of BG to me in the slightest. In fact is feels a very alien concept to me which has no place in this type of game.

I can't stress enough at this point in time how I would detest such an addition.

reedmilfam

I hated Pazaak - it took too much time and wasn't fun. Didn't like the dice thing in Witcher. Don't want anything of the sort in BG. If I want to play a card game, I'll load Hearts or something similarly pointless.

cyberhawk

@Shin I didn't word myself correctly, what I meant was not having a real chess game at all but instead having a chess look-a-like that works out to be a battle between two powerfull parties in a relatively tight space. I'm not that big fan of chess actually.

Permidion_Stark

I would have enjoyed it if the games in the gambling tents at the Nashkel Carnival had some kind of graphic with them, so you could at least see the roulette wheel spinning before you lost your money.

stygga

I absolutely hated that chess game in durlag's tower... It was just a free for all where their pawns charged my guys, while everyone stood still, threw fireballs, etc. I was hoping for so much more than what I found there.

Kaxon

Chess in Durlag's Tower wasn't implemented very well. You mostly just had to stand still or get blasted by lightning.

Raistlin82

Or... you know... they could just shorten the crazy long real life timers for romances.

Not that I mind the Suikoden-style mini-games, mind you...

Kaxon

Raistlin82 said:

Not that I mind the Suikoden-style mini-games, mind you...

Now if they added an iron chef minigame in your stronghold in BG2, that'd be pretty great. :P

HaHaCharade

I actually really like this idea.

The description of a magic item called "The Black Knight" from Icewind Dale (before you identify it), actually lists some games of chance or strategy frequented in Faerun, with even some original ones that the creators if they really wanted to get involved, could make their own rules for (if someone hasn't made "official" rules for them already). One cool game listed was "Old Wizard". Dragon Magazine also lists Faerunian games out there.

And if that doesn't work there's always "Spin the Bottle.... of Fiery Burning!"

Alderic

I think if you had Yoshimo in your party when travelling to Spellhold, he says he won some gold from the ship crew during the trip, in some kind of a game. Don't remember if the game was named though, probably not.

SamuelVarg

I think it would be a lot fun if there was some in-games in BG and BGII.

For example there could be games of dice or cards at the taverns.

It shouldn't be that hard to construct such a thing and it heighten the role playing feeling if you ask me.

What in-games should you like to play with your NPC:s and CHARNAME?

ajwz

Well technically there is gambling at the gambling tents in the circus and buldurs gate. Also the deack of many things game.
Anything else wouldnt really work in ther infinity engine without extensive modification