BG II was too steam punk for me :/
HexHammer
Member Posts: 288
BG I was just right, the right settings, the right art style, but BG II really ruined my impression and my love for the BG series that I had waited so long for. It took me a while to get used to it, but never grew on me and like 5 years before getting numb to the art style and complete the game.
If BG III ever will come, I beg the devs not to have any steam punk theme to the art style.
If BG III ever will come, I beg the devs not to have any steam punk theme to the art style.
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BG2 had a lot of things that were great tho, but the art style wasnt one i enjoyed.
First, the designer responsible for the appearance of most items in BG1 passed away shortly after the game was released.
Secondly, 3rd edition was released between the two games. This new version brought a lot of changes to the aesthetics of D&D. If you peruse the books, you'll find a lot of things in common with how BG2 looked - from the GUI to the appearance of armor, shields, etc.
I've never read any official word on the matter, but it's safe to assume that even though the devs were able to keep using the 2nd edition rules for the sake of consistency, some compromises had to be made in other to keep it in line with every other D&D product being released/promoted back then.
On one hand, we got some cool new classes (Barbarian, Monk and Sorcerer). On the other, the game ended up generally uglier.
But at least we didn't get 3rd edition rules, which ruined IWD2 for me.
It would be good if DnD had stayed with the same settings and made a new "realm" for the steampunk genre, like Alquadim, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, etc are all seperate genres.
[goes in angry mob mode] THE MUST BE LIMITS TO WHAT RESPECTABLE FORGOTTEN REALMS PLAYERS MUST STOMACH!!!!
.../waves pitchfork and torch
Yeah, I hated 3rd edition.
BG2 is a vastly prettier game to BG1. I legitimately cannot fathom why anyone would claim otherwise.
The only places that gave off a machine-made vibe to me were the insides of the Planar Sphere and the Temple of Talos. Perhaps the outside of the circus area, as well. The city of Athkatla is a place of magic and wonder, and was in the AD&D books. All the mysterious crazy stuff you find in the city reflects that well. In terms of "art direction," I honestly don't feel like there was a significant difference between BG1 and BG2 anyway.
Anyone going to the extremes of "steampunk" is crazy talk to me. There's nothing in the game remotely resembling Industrial Revolution era America/England. NOTHING.
The paper dolls in BG1 were just old-looking even at release, and the in game walking animation was stilted, slow, and awkward due to the general lack of frames of animation. (There are, what? 3 frames of animation? in swinging a weapon. It just looks weird.) It's jarring to see the fluid new sprites of BG2 when they are juxtaposed next to BG1's art, whether it be the few things that made it into BG2 (like civilians and skeletons) or running BGtutu. Maybe some of the helmets and shields were a little wacky. I dunno. Again, never struck me as much of an issue.
Talking about animations and paper dolls are besides the point, and doesn't relate to the topic at hand at all.
With that said, it's obvious that the art style was more in line with 3rd edition D&D, not in the scenery (I agree with you, Athkatla looks amazing) but in everything else. Suddenly armors and shields had to come with spikes or weird shapes, for example. Also, the GUI went from the stony look to something resembling the D&D books. Seriously, look at the game, then at the cover of the Player's Handbook.
He's a ridiculously powerful mage, and does cruel tests on people. Doesn't really seem like a "change in art direction" to me to include test tubes. I really cannot think of anything in the game that didn't fit the area it was in, and didn't fit already pre-established Forgotten Realms lore, except maybe the Temple of Talos. That building always seemed really jarring compared to it's locale.
Outside of the changes to helmets and shields, I honestly don't see a "change in art direction." (For the record, I feel like the helmets and shields were totally strange looking in BG2 but it never really bothered me.) There's wild and fantastical stuff, some of it machinery-style, but that goes hand in hand with a shift to a higher level adventure. The crazier stuff shows up when you're higher level, as it's usually more powerful than mundane typical fantasy stuff.
Can you give me a specific thing or area which struck you as steampunk?
The animations, while fluid, often looked less realistic. Oh, and mirrored sprites.
I dunno. I liked some of the art style changes, such as the shiny flooring of Irenicus' dungeon. But yeah.
It took me about 3 years just to get out of that fugly place, I just couldn't stomach it!
@SandmanCCL Steampunk "fashion" isn't limited to the Industrial/Wild West/Victorian Era. It can be any kind of fantasy world where steam power is the dominant technology and where its machines seem out of place. Some of my friends jokingly refer to it as "Brown Goth."
The "steampunk" or sci-fi elements were not that discouraging, although some times it was indeed weird. Come on, i mean, travelling with your spaceship planar sphere? But ok whatever.
I did enjoy BG2 story i admit, i like stories that reach an end, although TOB was kind of... mediocre, but what ruined BG2 for me was the art style of the avatars.
Seriously? You had BG1, more faithful to how actual armor looked, with better proportions and with the ability to even make out details like the places where the shinguard attaches itself to the sabaton, and you ditch that style for BG2? Why didn't you make the BG1 sprites able to dual wield instead?
BG2 has lame, ugly mirrored sprites for characters imo and i am NEVER going to like them, and that's it, you can like them if you want, but don't poke me about how better they are than the BG1 ones, because for me, they aren't. And they are even more pixelated than the BG1 ones, put them in the same resolution with Infinity Animations(<3) side by side and make the comparison yourselves. When put in the same resolution the difference shows, don't use the 640x480 sprites next to the 800x600 or even higher with widescreen mod and claim superiority of the bg2 ones.
Anyway, to each his own for sure, tastes are different, and for that reason i am unable to stomach the BG2 ones.
BG1 was a better game overall for some of us, and for me, mostly because of its art style. I just hope i'll be able to enjoy BG:EE with the option of using the BG1 sprites.
There are just not enough words to express my disgust for the BG2 art style of the avatars.
Edit : And there i go, talking about sprites again, where are my chill pills? >_<
On that same basis, if we ever see BG3, I would expect a style in lie with where it is: if it's back on the Sword Coast, let it look like that. If it's somewhere new, make it distinctive in its own way.
So, there are coggy bits, some steam power here and there. The game doesn't have steampunk art direction, though there are bits in it that you could call steampunk. Like I said, I dislike that style - hence my abhorrence at one of my favourite games being described that way.
It's interesting though, I had no idea so many people disliked the look of the game.
LOL bones made of bubble gum - you've said it all. Every swing is accompanied with lowering the knees to the floor :PP
On topic though: Never noticed the steampunk that much now that you mentioned it. But I can see what you mean.
Were there quite a few cogs moving in the background? Sure. Was it game-breaking? not at all.
I figured we were underground, and we would get out somehow as this was just the opening, but it was still such an awfully boring enviroment. I was completely underwhelmed, and BG 2 just failed at hooking me in. It just couldn't compete with the other games I owned at the time. I had heard good things, but I just wasn't willing to go any farther. It was boring, bland, unwelcoming, and there were other games willing to work harder to get my attention instantly, like the intro of Devil May Cry 3
I am fully prepared to believe that BG 2 is great once you get past the intro though, and BG:EE will probably be the hook to lure me into playing it
On one hand, the graphics in BG2 were more detailed, less choppy, and personally I like the aspects of BG2 that people are calling "steampunk," including the moving machinery parts - I think they added some originality and individually to the scenes. I know many people here will strongly disagree, but I always felt there was a certain fundamental repetitiveness to the scenery in BG1.
I agree with sandman's view, that the machinery-style imagery suits Irenicus' dungeon very well - it conveys his personna as a superpowerful, creative, and sadistic mage who exists outside of normal society.
However, I did think the NPC portraits in BG1 were MUCH better (in fact, I'd say they're the best I've ever seen in any RPG), and I prefer the original paperdoll style as well, even if the graphics were inferior. As someone else said, not much that could be done about that apparently, as the original artist passed away.
Personally, while I think the sprites and animations could use some work in both games, I think each game has the style that suits the storyline best. In BG1, things feel fresh and natural, you really feel like a kid that is out of his hometown for the first time, exploring the wilderness and marveling at the hugeness of Baldur's Gate once you get there. In BG2, you get the feeling that you don't know where you are and that the situation is grim - the city is dark and dangerous and items don't feel so fresh anymore.
That being said, if I had to choose I'd rather have BG1 art - it feels more natural to me.