Steampunk, seriously? This must be the pinnacle of BG1 fanboyism.
Apparently because I'm a BG1 fanboy I automatically make crude, incorrect accusations of BGII. Thanks for automatically clumping me in with that, really appreciate the stereotyping.
I thought the aesthetics of BG2 were awesome. Maybe the character models were worse, I didn't pay that much attention to that part of the game (but I did notice the monk fighting animations look ridiculous). But if we're talking about the backgrounds and the "steampunk" style (which is being completely exaggerated here), those parts of the game were great.
BG2 is a vastly prettier game to BG1. I legitimately cannot fathom why anyone would claim otherwise.
No disagreement here, BG2 had very high quality art compared to BG1.
People seem to get confused by screen resolution, thinking it represents art quality.
No guys, BG2 and BG1 look exactly the same, except the character art and the fact that everything in your BG2 game is at 800x600 or higher(widescreen mod) resolution, while BG1 is stuck at 640x480. Of course it looks worse.
Compare the character art and the games at the same resolution with widescreen mod and infinity animations through a mod like BGT and come say to me again that BG2 looks prettier.
The art was constructed in the same fashion but the level of detail, variation, and amount was better in my opinion. I still like the BG1 setting/graphics better though.
More people in this thread need to stick to just complaining about terrible BGII character models. The backgrounds were quite good.
For me, it's this. The environments in BG2 are freakin' AMAZING. The paper dolls, avatars, sprites, and animations are all desperately *ugly*.
I've fallen from the purer faith, @Quartz. I'm currently playing a Tutu game with a mix of BG1 and BG2 elements. It's like some kind of horrible Frankengame, but I can't help myself.
Mixing the two looks arguably worse than keeping them separate. Even if you install 1PP and the Bg1 Tutu UI mod, all the sprites are still straight out of BG2 and look out of place on the Coast Highway.
for ppl who want more a traditional D&D flavour, perhaps the Temple of Elemental Evil (Greyhawk) would be more up your alley... too bad the saga wasn't continued--Slavers-->Giants-->Drow-->Lolth epic
A lot of the item art (especially the keys) and machinery did indeed have the steam punk feel to it and I noticed this even before I first read about steam punk genres.
Still, I enjoyed those influences in BG2 because it gave me a kind of atmosphere where the medieval age are testing out unproven fledgling machinery and technology but are still held back due to their dependance on magic. I can imagine that if the world had magic then we wouldn't have come this far in terms of technology due to less investments in science and research when we could just cast a spell and the desired function is carried out.
The technology gap between BG1 and BG2 I see it as that Baldur's Gate and the surrounding land are simpler people and less developed and thus more medieval influences in their lifestyle but Athkatla and Amn are more ambitious, diverse and much more developed compared to others. It's like the United States and Mexico, both are neighbors but one is significantly more developed than the other in comparison. One has advanced technology, well structured buildings, systems and such while the other seems more simple, undeveloped and and just plain backwards. I know this because I have seen Mexico through both the eyes of a tourist and as a missionary.
Yeah i wouldn't call BG2 "steampunk", some elements were present, mostly in a subtle way.
It had more weird locations at some points indeed, but i like BG2 a lot.
The only thing i didn't like were the character models, which looked worse and more pixelated than the surroundings.
@bigdogchris indeed, more variation will be found in BG2, more places, landscapes etc. As for the level of detail, i'll have to respectfully disagree, after seeing them both in the same resolution.
It does seem that BG1 has lower quality of course, less landscapes and lower resolution kinda makes this apparent.
I do prefer the BG1 style as well, but i enjoyed BG2 story a lot too. And after finding out the mod Infinity Animations, i enjoyed BG2 even more :P
I hate the art style, but try to ignore it. Everything is so ugly. I just can't get over the avatars, or that keys look like guns, staves like rifles, jigsaw puzzle shields, helmets with horns out from the sides. Fantasy insanity. Going way overboard on the detail.
I hate the art style, but try to ignore it. Everything is so ugly. I just can't get over the avatars, or that keys look like guns, staves like rifles, jigsaw puzzle shields, helmets with horns out from the sides. Fantasy insanity. Going way overboard on the detail.
I agree BG2 felt very much more exotic and almost alien when compared to BG1, but the art-style of the game reflect the epic proportions the bhaalspawn's jourrney has taken. It really feels like the stakes are higher than in the first game, everything is "bigger" and more powerful. I like how the safe havens of Candlekeep and Friendly Arms Inn are distant memories and you stuck in totally different culture. I'd say BG2 has some steam-punk in it but only a healthy bit of it. Most games these days try too hard on pure fairy-tale fantasy or space-ship armor and gigantic swords and axes with all possible colours glowing off them.
This thread makes me sad because certain area of FR, like Amn and Halruaa are centres of magical commerce, which things like airships et al are not too uncommon.
i'm not sure if anybody was actually slagging off the perceived steampunkiness of BG2, but just making the observation. it was some of the artwork that people mostly dislike.
@reedmilfam Neither do the people saying that BG2 is steampunk, so I wouldn't worry about it. The serious silly misconceptions about a genre that isn't even in play is just weird.
Also my PC back in the day could barely run BG2 at 800x600, and I felt the art was dramatically improved. Not just from a higher resolution standpoint, but it just felt cleaner and smoother and more detailed. BG1 is an exceptionally bland game for about 3/4ths of it. As much as I love the game, it has more to do with the gameplay than the setting. How many forests and nearly empty plains areas can you walk through before it all feels samey? The only area of the game that stands out from a concept standpoint is Baldur's Gate city, but usually I'm so tired of doing meaningless quests, I just power through it at that point to finish the game so I can get into BG2 where the real fun starts.
I've gone through BG1 more times than 2, oddly enough. It's just a simpler game and is easier to sit down and play through, because it's less immersive. Also low level combat in D&D settings is more dynamic than higher level combat.
ITT: BG1 fanboys heavily exaggerate the art style difference in BG2 and proceed to call it steampunk. Then complain about it, as usual.
Don't blast all the self-described BG1 fanboys with this. There are many reasonable BG1 fan boys on this thread who don't confuse the Forgotten Realm's lore with steampunk.
BG2 was not broke and iron starved anymore and all the inventor races blinged out in the time of excess. I know I personally infused millions of gold into less than a square mile over a relatively short time. That is allowed to have consequences with the goods seen around such a city.
It should be noticed that there's a difference between "leans towards steampunk [because that's what 3rd Edition D&D did, as I put it before]" and "is, like, total steampunk, man".
You folks dissing other people as stupid "BG1 Fanboys" should probably steer clear of the thread instead of getting your knickers in a twist. As if we need MORE division in this fanbase.
ITT: BG1 fanboys heavily exaggerate the art style difference in BG2 and proceed to call it steampunk. Then complain about it, as usual.
I'm just going to repeat the exact same thing I posted above.
Apparently because I'm a BG1 fanboy I automatically make crude, incorrect accusations of BGII. Thanks for automatically clumping me in with that, really appreciate the stereotyping.
@Kilivitz I tend to disagree with your assessment of 3rd edition. Which is by far my favorite, but that's beside the point. 3rd edition is just a ruleset and it can be used for any style of setting including D20 Modern. Those rules worked great for Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, and Dragonlance too. I wouldn't describe any of those as steampunk and the vanilla setting was the very unsteampunk Greyhawk. Fans created some nice Dark Sun and Planescape stuff online. I could see maybe calling Planescape a little steampunkish, but it was a 2nd edition product so it shouldn't affect 3rd edition at all.
Now I'm not saying that you couldn't run a killer steampunk campaign or video game with 3rd edition products. But I don't think the ruleset itself dictates style of campaign/setting in any way. But then again, I don't think BG2 is in any way steampunk either. It's just a bit eclectic since it spans multiple planes and environments.
And a pretty well done game in terms of plot and character. It isn't something I am interested in replaying, though, because I found the combat system less than challenging and fundamentally pretty uninteresting.
Cannons and firearms are not unkown in the Realms. They're just expensive and considered unreliable compared to magic. Technology is quite common in the island of Lantan where gnomish worshippers of Gond develop it. The island was destroyed during the spellplague that happens more than a century after BG 2.
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Naw man, BG2 is appearantly a steampunk game now, not much we can do about it and its flawed art style.
IWD1 must also be steampunk because it has an airship in it, right?
I've fallen from the purer faith, @Quartz. I'm currently playing a Tutu game with a mix of BG1 and BG2 elements. It's like some kind of horrible Frankengame, but I can't help myself.
Mixing the two looks arguably worse than keeping them separate. Even if you install 1PP and the Bg1 Tutu UI mod, all the sprites are still straight out of BG2 and look out of place on the Coast Highway.
too bad the saga wasn't continued--Slavers-->Giants-->Drow-->Lolth
epic
Still, I enjoyed those influences in BG2 because it gave me a kind of atmosphere where the medieval age are testing out unproven fledgling machinery and technology but are still held back due to their dependance on magic. I can imagine that if the world had magic then we wouldn't have come this far in terms of technology due to less investments in science and research when we could just cast a spell and the desired function is carried out.
The technology gap between BG1 and BG2 I see it as that Baldur's Gate and the surrounding land are simpler people and less developed and thus more medieval influences in their lifestyle but Athkatla and Amn are more ambitious, diverse and much more developed compared to others. It's like the United States and Mexico, both are neighbors but one is significantly more developed than the other in comparison. One has advanced technology, well structured buildings, systems and such while the other seems more simple, undeveloped and and just plain backwards. I know this because I have seen Mexico through both the eyes of a tourist and as a missionary.
There's my two cents on this.
Are there Guns in BG2? No? ok then. Not Steampunk.
It had more weird locations at some points indeed, but i like BG2 a lot.
The only thing i didn't like were the character models, which looked worse and more pixelated than the surroundings.
@bigdogchris indeed, more variation will be found in BG2, more places, landscapes etc. As for the level of detail, i'll have to respectfully disagree, after seeing them both in the same resolution.
It does seem that BG1 has lower quality of course, less landscapes and lower resolution kinda makes this apparent.
I do prefer the BG1 style as well, but i enjoyed BG2 story a lot too. And after finding out the mod Infinity Animations, i enjoyed BG2 even more :P
Also my PC back in the day could barely run BG2 at 800x600, and I felt the art was dramatically improved. Not just from a higher resolution standpoint, but it just felt cleaner and smoother and more detailed. BG1 is an exceptionally bland game for about 3/4ths of it. As much as I love the game, it has more to do with the gameplay than the setting. How many forests and nearly empty plains areas can you walk through before it all feels samey? The only area of the game that stands out from a concept standpoint is Baldur's Gate city, but usually I'm so tired of doing meaningless quests, I just power through it at that point to finish the game so I can get into BG2 where the real fun starts.
I've gone through BG1 more times than 2, oddly enough. It's just a simpler game and is easier to sit down and play through, because it's less immersive. Also low level combat in D&D settings is more dynamic than higher level combat.
You folks dissing other people as stupid "BG1 Fanboys" should probably steer clear of the thread instead of getting your knickers in a twist. As if we need MORE division in this fanbase.
Apparently because I'm a BG1 fanboy I automatically make crude, incorrect accusations of BGII. Thanks for automatically clumping me in with that, really appreciate the stereotyping.
Now I'm not saying that you couldn't run a killer steampunk campaign or video game with 3rd edition products. But I don't think the ruleset itself dictates style of campaign/setting in any way. But then again, I don't think BG2 is in any way steampunk either. It's just a bit eclectic since it spans multiple planes and environments.
You can read something about them here:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lantan