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Shadowrun games: Best start

I'm gonna get the complete Shadowrun collection on Steam for this Christmas.

What do you think is the best starting build for a newbie like me?
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  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    I'm assuming you mean the Harebrained Schemes games? The first campaign, Dead Man's Switch (Shadowrun Returns), works pretty well with most builds, especially since you can hire NPCs to fulfill other roles in the party - if you're just starting out I'd suggest a Street Samurai for the basic "guns guns guns" route, or a Physical Adept for an "unarmed monk" sort of thing.

    (Side note: I highly recommend doing this. It improves the first campaign significantly.)

    With Dragonfall and Hong Kong, you might want to try a class that isn't represented in the set team of companions you get. Dragonfall has a Shaman, a Weapons Specialist and a close-combat medic, with an option to recruit a Decker (hacker) later; Hong Kong gives you a Security Expert (ranged weapons), a Shaman, a Decker, a Rigger (drone combat) and a secret fifth I won't spoil but who also deals with close-quarters combat.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    I think everyone would agree the best start would be the street samurai, put points in health. endurance and your preferred attack type (melee or range) and you can run through anything. A big problem with DMS is, the AI will the majority of the time focus you!

    This annoyed me a lot since my first playthrough is always with mages. Also, deckers are pretty useless in DMS, this was a big complaint about that campaign.

    With dragonfall, DON'T FEEL the need to be a decker just because the other roles are already there, be anyone you want. All the roles will be filled no matter what anyways. Besides you don't really have a mage anyways, we have a shaman but not a mage.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The Dragonfall Shaman is kind of a mage duel class anyway.

    Personally, I don't think a mage can do anything with spells that can't be done better with a big gun.
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    shawne said:

    I'm assuming you mean the Harebrained Schemes games? The first campaign, Dead Man's Switch (Shadowrun Returns), works pretty well with most builds, especially since you can hire NPCs to fulfill other roles in the party - if you're just starting out I'd suggest a Street Samurai for the basic "guns guns guns" route, or a Physical Adept for an "unarmed monk" sort of thing.

    (Side note: I highly recommend doing this. It improves the first campaign significantly.)

    With Dragonfall and Hong Kong, you might want to try a class that isn't represented in the set team of companions you get. Dragonfall has a Shaman, a Weapons Specialist and a close-combat medic, with an option to recruit a Decker (hacker) later; Hong Kong gives you a Security Expert (ranged weapons), a Shaman, a Decker, a Rigger (drone combat) and a secret fifth I won't spoil but who also deals with close-quarters combat.

    Thanks.


  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    With dragonfall, DON'T FEEL the need to be a decker just because the other roles are already there, be anyone you want. All the roles will be filled no matter what anyways. Besides you don't really have a mage anyways, we have a shaman but not a mage.

    As I said, Dragonfall has a decker who shows up a bit later and can be recruited. However, there are quite a few class-related opportunities in Dragonfall that you can't get the NPC decker to do instead (HBS hadn't quite figured out that trick until Hong Kong). It's worth considering.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited September 2016
    Deckers are a bit like thieves/rogues. They are pretty much the only class that you must have on most runs. And since there is only one NPC decker available in each game, if you don't like their personality, and the protagonist is not a decker, you are pretty much stuck with them.

    Of course there is no reason you can't be a decker and still carry a big gun.


    I generally use the custom option, and play a character with a combination of decking and tech based combat skills. It's not a good idea to mix decking with spellcasting.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Well, yes, as a rule the custom option is always best, as it lets you toy with stats in a more direct way than the templates. You never know if you might prefer that one extra point of melee to go towards shotguns instead. It's the difference between rolling a character and picking a pre-generated one in BG, more or less.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    I didn't reckon shotguns or smgs where any good. Pistols or rifles far superior.
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,353
    Fardragon said:

    It's not a good idea to mix decking with spellcasting.

    Says you! :P I actually played just that (with an emphasis on the magic) my first go through DMS, and just that (with an emphasis on the decking) my first go through DF and then a mage with wicked pistol skills in HK followed close on the heels of my first playthrough as a sort of repeat of my DMS character (because I refused to read anything about the game ahead of time and sort of assumed I might need to dabble in decking because of the DF issue of some decking things needing me to do them that @shawne mentioned earlier, so they began more decker than mage then quickly became more mage than decker...and second time through I went all out with my Chow Yun-fat pistol wizard knowing my decking was in good hands.

    It's also fun to do a totally cyberware'd out street samurai in DMS tho I tell ya whut.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    edited September 2016
    Fardragon said:

    The Dragonfall Shaman is kind of a mage duel class anyway.

    Personally, I don't think a mage can do anything with spells that can't be done better with a big gun.

    You were playing a completely different game then I was, no shaman I played, pc or Dietrich could lock down enemies with hard cc like blind and mind wipe!
    shawne said:

    With dragonfall, DON'T FEEL the need to be a decker just because the other roles are already there, be anyone you want. All the roles will be filled no matter what anyways. Besides you don't really have a mage anyways, we have a shaman but not a mage.

    As I said, Dragonfall has a decker who shows up a bit later and can be recruited. However, there are quite a few class-related opportunities in Dragonfall that you can't get the NPC decker to do instead (HBS hadn't quite figured out that trick until Hong Kong). It's worth considering.
    There are things you can't do with Dietrich as your only shaman/mage either. I figured that was the same for every playstyle, not just decker.

    With that said, I usually play a pure shaman/mage hybrid anyways. I love summoning environment spirits kekekeke! ESPECIALLY THE TOXIC SPIRITS!
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @GenderNihilismGirdle: To be fair, while it's certainly possible to do a decker/mage build, the problem is that cyberware diminishes essence (hell, that's an actual plot point in Dragonfall). Any upgrades you'd get to improve your decking would add more cooldown and reduce your spellcasting; you could still do it, but it'd be very difficult to optimize a character like that.

    There are things you can't do with Dietrich as your only shaman/mage either. I figured that was the same for every playstyle, not just decker.

    To my recollection (and I've played through the series fairly recently), there are only two points where shamanism/magic gives you information Dietrich can't provide:

    You can find out more about Absinthe, and you can learn the truth about Feuerschwinge by reading her aura.

    With that said, I usually play a pure shaman/mage hybrid anyways. I love summoning environment spirits kekekeke! ESPECIALLY THE TOXIC SPIRITS!

    I always kept Dietrich and Gobbet on my respective teams for that reason - well, that and the fact that they're fantastic characters in their own right.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Shamans are fine, they have useful summoning and support spells, they have high Cha for conversations, and they can pick up a few mage spells like Deitrich does.

    It's specifically mages (and adepts) which are pointless, since anything they can do technology can do better.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    edited September 2016
    shawne said:

    @GenderNihilismGirdle: To be fair, while it's certainly possible to do a decker/mage build, the problem is that cyberware diminishes essence (hell, that's an actual plot point in Dragonfall). Any upgrades you'd get to improve your decking would add more cooldown and reduce your spellcasting; you could still do it, but it'd be very difficult to optimize a character like that.

    There are things you can't do with Dietrich as your only shaman/mage either. I figured that was the same for every playstyle, not just decker.

    To my recollection (and I've played through the series fairly recently), there are only two points where shamanism/magic gives you information Dietrich can't provide:

    You can find out more about Absinthe, and you can learn the truth about Feuerschwinge by reading her aura.

    With that said, I usually play a pure shaman/mage hybrid anyways. I love summoning environment spirits kekekeke! ESPECIALLY THE TOXIC SPIRITS!

    I always kept Dietrich and Gobbet on my respective teams for that reason - well, that and the fact that they're fantastic characters in their own right.
    I kept him on my team too, but I still ran mage/shaman. My point was he player doesn't have to feel obligated to be a decker just because your team lacks one. Even if you do get blitz later on, I saw a lot of people thinking that you have to be the decker for the team and you don't.
    Fardragon said:



    It's specifically mages (and adepts) which are pointless, since anything they can do technology can do better.

    Except constantly chain stun bosses and people indefinitely with a higher hit chance, powerful buffs and debuffs.

    In fact I remember it was actually being said that Shaman was the gimp class.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    I kept him on my team too, but I still ran mage/shaman. My point was he player doesn't have to feel obligated to be a decker just because your team lacks one. Even if you do get blitz later on, I saw a lot of people thinking that you have to be the decker for the team and you don't.

    I'm reasonably sure that suggestion - and it is just a suggestion - involves two things: the NPC decker isn't available until a bit further into the campaign, and since you can't backtrack that can lead to some missed opportunities; similarly, there are things you can do with a PC decker

    with APEX, for example


    that the squadmate can't do for you. These things wouldn't make or break anyone's experience with Dragonfall, but that's why that particular suggestion is made so often.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    There is really no point in "chain stunning" anyone. Headshot with a sniper rifle - only apply once.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    shawne said:

    I kept him on my team too, but I still ran mage/shaman. My point was he player doesn't have to feel obligated to be a decker just because your team lacks one. Even if you do get blitz later on, I saw a lot of people thinking that you have to be the decker for the team and you don't.

    I'm reasonably sure that suggestion - and it is just a suggestion - involves two things: the NPC decker isn't available until a bit further into the campaign, and since you can't backtrack that can lead to some missed opportunities; similarly, there are things you can do with a PC decker

    with APEX, for example


    that the squadmate can't do for you. These things wouldn't make or break anyone's experience with Dragonfall, but that's why that particular suggestion is made so often.
    Also he is a tit, and probably not as effective as a well built PC decker.

    Unlike Hong Kong, where the Decker, like the other NPCs, is probably a bit OP compared to the PC.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    Fardragon said:

    There is really no point in "chain stunning" anyone. Headshot with a sniper rifle - only apply once.

    Head shot with a sniper rifle doesn't one shot bosses, or even heavier units. I ould be wrong there though.
    shawne said:

    I kept him on my team too, but I still ran mage/shaman. My point was he player doesn't have to feel obligated to be a decker just because your team lacks one. Even if you do get blitz later on, I saw a lot of people thinking that you have to be the decker for the team and you don't.

    I'm reasonably sure that suggestion - and it is just a suggestion - involves two things: the NPC decker isn't available until a bit further into the campaign, and since you can't backtrack that can lead to some missed opportunities; similarly, there are things you can do with a PC decker

    with APEX, for example


    that the squadmate can't do for you. These things wouldn't make or break anyone's experience with Dragonfall, but that's why that particular suggestion is made so often.
    None of the opportunities that come before blitz don't hinder the player in the slightest if they miss them, I haven't dragonfall in a while, but they don't even affect the story at all so they aren't that big of a deal. Wait what can you do with APEx, that can't be done with any other class? Because if you're talking about near the very end... I was a mage and with no points in decking at all and could still do it.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    In Dragonfall I would estimate that you would only miss out on about 1000 credits if you didn't have a PC Decker, but there are some lifts and turrets you can hack to make your life easier if the PC has decking skill. Not that Dragonfall is particularly difficult.

    But the biggest reasons for a PC decker are:

    a) Blitz is an annoying tit;

    b) Blitz is only a mediocre Decker;

    c) Blitz is hopeless in a firefight;

    d) see a).
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    A. That is opinionated, I liked him.
    B. I don't like decking at all in general. Its a neat idea, and more than likely a lot better in pnp, but I don't find it fun in Dragon and deckers are pretty damn useless inSRR.
    C. That is any pure decker in general, but when you can run around with the creator totem and do suicide spirit bombs. Deckers just feel boring in comparison.

    With that said, I wasn't telling anyone who do like them not to play them, I was just pointing out that pc doesn't have to be one.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited September 2016
    I have found it quite easy to build a PC who can deck better than Blitz but is still kicks butt in any firefight.

    I have played a rifleman decker, a cyberclaws decker (in Hong Kong), and a rigger decker. My only warning us the rigger decker was hard to afford the best gear.

    I agree that the decking sequences aren't fun, but if you don't do them you miss out on a whole lot of content. Plus the skill, and high INT, are used regularly in dialogues.

    So is CHA, but WP, the mage/adept casting stat, is barely used at all.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    edited September 2016
    Problem is, mixing magic and tech is usually always a bad idea because it gimps mages a decker rigger works because they are more designed to work together and a rigger with s ranked drones can clear whole rooms with just the drones itself and any extras that might come in. Not to mention that all the cybernetic enhancements that would improve your more technical/mechanical ability, kills your essence which weakens the magical aspect. Which is why if I had to choose between decking and mage I'm going mage.

    Decking has a lot more usefulness in Dragonfall, yes because when SRR came out, it was literally none existent and everyone complained about it since this made deckers quite useless. Yet despite all the magical encounters we run into in the game where a shaman or mage should be able to step up with other options besides fighting. No one ever seemed to complain about the lack of alternatives for those so they don't ever come up as much.

    I still don't have hong kong so I have no knowledge there. I remember reading that mages are able to travel into astral space on pnp, people complained about the lack of matrix runs, but I never saw one complaint about the lack of the mage's ability to travel into astral space.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited September 2016
    If I'm playing a cyberpunk game I want to be able to do the things that I can't do in other RPGs. So I wouldn't choose a mage.

    But mage spells are woefully limited in the crpg anyway. Very little spell variety and ley lines = suicide because cover is essential. There are some dialogue options that make reference to mage's astral perception though.

    In Hong Kong you can use companion skills in dialogue so it matters less what class the protagonist is. And the companions are generally more powerful. Especially the rigger, whose drone is way more powerful than the protagonist can have.
    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    I don't share your feelings there, because If you're going to put magic in a science fiction game, I want it done right and not half baked.

    The spells are limited but they are still freaking powerful, Hih AOE High AP damage, and debatably the best CC in the game only class that came close to being cc beastly was the street samurai, and when I played that. I found it more effective to just go killing. They are king of buffs, taking that street samurai and turning them from a killing machine to a death god,

    But, I think we've established that we just have two different styles of play. We could possibly do a run together though XD... God, all this has me burning to play Shadowrun again, I wonder if they stopped making mods for dragonfall since hong king has been out for a while.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Well, how about this as a summery:

    1) Do you prefer technology or magic?

    2) If technology, split your points between Decking and one weapon of your choice. (Don't worry about ESPs).

    3) if magic, put at least 3 points in shaman for a totem, and at least 1 for summoning, and distribute the rest based on whichever spells you fancy. Don't bother with weapon skills.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    Number 3 is actually inaccurate. magic is only gimped by decking and rigging, so it would actually be.

    3) if magic, put at least 3 points in shaman for a totem, and at least 1 for summoning (if you're getting the creator totem), and distribute the rest based on whichever spells you fancy. Don't bother with rigging or decking skills.

    The only difference between powerbolt and every other weapon besides pistol is the ability to hit more than one target at a time. Beyond that, it is a preference on which you'd like to use. The big thing here if you are going to use spirits, you literally have to dedicate to the tree of spirit control and summoning, if you don't get the creator totem (which I always do, and still dedicate to the spirit control tree, just later than I normally would.)

    I assume number two would be similar if you go with technology then you, in the long run, would have to give up magic, but I don't think it is on the same level seeing how I don't remember seeing any penalties to tech for having a large amount of essence like how magic is penalized for losing essence. But yea, I ultimately do agree with your summary with my little edit added in there >.>

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited September 2016
    If you are going down the magic route then you can't use cyberlink weapons, so it's really not worth bothering with guns at all, just use spells.

    The difference between guns and spells like powerbolt is that the spell doesn't benefit from the special abilities unlocked by high skill: aimed shot, head shot, full auto etc.

    I find summoning spirits useful even with low levels of control - just send them on kamakazi runs.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    You literally can't use cyberlink weapons? You can't get a smartgun link if you're a mage or shaman?
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    You literally can't use cyberlink weapons? You can't get a smartgun link if you're a mage or shaman?

    You can, it's just not a good idea because it'll decrease your spell slots and increase your cooldown.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    edited September 2016

    You literally can't use cyberlink weapons? You can't get a smartgun link if you're a mage or shaman?

    the more yu upgrade your body, the more essence you lose which leads to what @shawne said. In the CRPG, less essence means less frequent spell casting.

    Fardragon said:

    If you are going down the magic route then you can't use Cyberlink weapons, so it's really not worth bothering with guns at all, just use spells.

    The difference between guns and spells like powerbolt is that the spell doesn't benefit from the special abilities unlocked by high skill: aimed shot, head shot, full auto etc.

    I find summoning spirits useful even with low levels of control - just send them on kamakazi runs.

    That is because powerbolt falls under spell not range weapon, hence its accuracy is governed by willpower and it is also technically not a physical weapon which mechanics can be changed from semi-automatic, to automatic, and so on.

    If a hybrid mage is willing to sacrifice a little spell frequency (I know I sure won't), it can be done. I've never tried it so I can't speak on how effective it is on harder settings.

    Also, you're preaching to the choir when you're talking about sending spirits on kamikaze runs!

    Also, I meant to say this earlier but yeah, I don't know what the dev's were thinking with the placement for some of the leylines.
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