[story depth, party interaction, lore] Which is the best party for first play?
obilie
Member Posts: 44
Dear players,
I was advised to play this party in my first ever BG 2 game:
- The Player
- Jaheira
- Minsc
- Aerie
- Haer'Dalis
- Imoen
The argument was that this party has the biggest story and mutual interaction; that it seems most role-play logical (Jaheira and Minsc have been with you since BG 1, Imoen is your sister, why would you NOT take her, Aerie is right there where you appear out of Irenicus' Dungeon and she also has a quest that leads to Haer'Dalis which is unique) and hence that this was the ideal first play party the devs may have had in their mind when creating BG 2.
What are your opinions?
A.) Will I lose this allegedly most central, purest BG 2 RPG experience not trying this party but, say, opting for a different party composition? OR would it still stay mostly the same when changing only one or two of the characters?
B.) What about playing these characters but with some omitted, say minus Haer'Dalis and Aerie in order to level faster? Is a party of 6 best for first play in terms of depth? (not taking difficulty into consideration)
C.) I am a Shadowdancer, do I really need Imoen? Yet the game is about her, it would be weird not to take her.
Thank you!
I was advised to play this party in my first ever BG 2 game:
- The Player
- Jaheira
- Minsc
- Aerie
- Haer'Dalis
- Imoen
The argument was that this party has the biggest story and mutual interaction; that it seems most role-play logical (Jaheira and Minsc have been with you since BG 1, Imoen is your sister, why would you NOT take her, Aerie is right there where you appear out of Irenicus' Dungeon and she also has a quest that leads to Haer'Dalis which is unique) and hence that this was the ideal first play party the devs may have had in their mind when creating BG 2.
What are your opinions?
A.) Will I lose this allegedly most central, purest BG 2 RPG experience not trying this party but, say, opting for a different party composition? OR would it still stay mostly the same when changing only one or two of the characters?
B.) What about playing these characters but with some omitted, say minus Haer'Dalis and Aerie in order to level faster? Is a party of 6 best for first play in terms of depth? (not taking difficulty into consideration)
C.) I am a Shadowdancer, do I really need Imoen? Yet the game is about her, it would be weird not to take her.
Thank you!
2
Comments
If you are a shadowdancer I would strongly advice you to take Nalia since she is the only good NPC before Imoen that only levels as a mage, plus she has a nice personal quest and kind of cool interactions with Imoen in ToB.
Keldorn also has a lot going for him and I like his interactions with Aerie, plus I like his personality in general. Not classic lawful stupid at all imho.
Make sure to leave one spot open for mt ToB when you get there. You do not want to miss out on him.
Jan (best party interactions)
Yoshimo (then Imoen when you can add her)
Keldorn (probably drop when you get to ToB, you'll understand why; his quest has a lot of depth too)
Aerie
Haer'Dalis (good interactions between the player and Aerie)
I am not fond of Nalia (three thieves are too much) but she is very nice. I like Neera a LOT and Viconia. And I would take Keldorn or Mazzy. I do not enjoy Minsc, he irritates me a bit. So you think only Jaheria, Minsc and Imoen to be kept?
@dockaboomski Thanks for the reply!
I really find Jan irritating. Like across the board, hence I really do not wish to take him. Okay, I will take Keldorn then and replace Minsc. I feel Yoshimo to be redundant since I and Imoen are thieves. Also, you suggested 6 characters including Imoen without one place for the player?
So all in all, Imoen is to be kept for the story and Minsc is replacable?
I would love Neera but with Imoen and Aerie that is a no-no.
Minsc is personal preference. He doesn't bring a lot in terms of depth or anything but is still fun to bring.
If Yoshimo starts to be redundant you can dual-class him to fighter because of his high str, which I definitely recommend.
This will leave you an extra slot for basically anyone. I'd recommend a divine spellcaster, so your options are Anomen, Jaheira, Cernd, and Viconia. Since you said you like Viconia, bring her around.
So at this point I'd go with
You
Keldorn
Haer'Dalis
Yoshimo dualed to fighter; then Imoen
Aerie
Viconia
If you want to know about the ToB companion, you'll run into some spoilers. He's a great tank, and is a good replacement for Keldorn if not an improvement.
As far as melee strength I think your party might be lacking a bit, so feel free to drop Aerie for Mazzy, if you like her.
Glad to be of assistance.
Jaheria/Aerie (Love Interest)
Minsc
Anomen/Nalia
(Rotating 5th slot)
Certain NPCs are "joined" with certain quests, for example Nalia with the D'Arnise keep or Keldorn in the temple district. Have those NPCs around when you do those quests allows you to experience the full cast on your first play through, dropping them when you pick up a new NPC attached to a quest.
For the fourth slot, take Anomen if you romance Aerie, and Nalia if you romance Jaheria to have at least one arcane caster and one divine warrior in your party at all times.
Evil party is a must for me at some point (and was impossible to do Pure Evil in BG2 before the EE added some new fun companions, I think I had Jan and Haer'Dalis to round out my first "Evil" playthrough of BG2 back in the day), but it's not usually my first or even second party in a game and the BG series was no different. It's fun to mix and match! That's my advice to get as much lore and story packed in as you can. Run through with each class in the game, save humans for the classes other races can't do and try out some nifty race/class/alignment combos and aim for party composition centered on that! There's lots of fun experiments to try out, it's what keeps the series so fun to come back to after all this time.
FWIW I really like the set up in your OP and played just that setup when I was doing my second time through romancing Jaheira to get the Aerie/Haer'Dalis romance goin' on (and used a modification of that lineup where I'm romancing Aerie and had Nalia instead of Haer'Dalis on my very first BG2 playthrough! tho I dropped Nalia for SECRET COMPANION in ToB). That modified one is the one I find to be my own personal "canon" BG2 experience...but everyone has a different fave playthrough experience, so experiment! You'll literally see some new stuff that's worth it (IMHO anyway) every time you run through it if you do, to a greater degree than different party composition in the first one anyway!
PC (Barbarian, because it was a new class and it moved fast, so it was cool enough back when I was 10)
Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen
Nalia
Aerie=>Viconia (When I found her)
It was a rather balanced party, though this was not a criterion. My brother, who had barely play BG1, went for something entirely different:
PC (sorcerer)
Minsc
Valygar
Aerie
Haer'Dalis
Imoen
You really should not bother with a party you SHOULD play, but you should focus on how you feel about this or that character travelling with you. This game is great because you can beat it with about any party, so balancing your party is not necessary. Just play as YOU feel, and don't take other players' recommandations into account, at least for a first playthrough.
A) no
B ) no need to level faster in a first run, unless you want to powergame, but running a 5 people party to have a place for the quest related NPCs is a very good idea. Doing this you must be careful to have a certain functional balance in the party (even if the game can be won with almost any party). Removing Haer'Dalis and Aerie you have only Imoen as arcane caster and this is not ideal. I am not talking from the PG perspective, is just that if you want to have the allegedly most central, purest BG 2 RPG experience a not balanced party is not ideal.
C) you don't need her thieving capability, but if in the early BG2 she is 30% thief and 70% mage at the end she is 99% mage. The same is true for Nalia.
Having one of them in the party mean just (for the thief part of them) that you can focus in the early game on other abilities with your Shadowdancer, but almost any door or container can be opened with enough STR and for the few that can not be forced in that way there is a spell and there are means to deal with traps without a thief. Is possible and very easy to run a party without any thief, all you really loose is some Xp from opening and disarming.
For the mage part of them the things are completely different, they both are competent mages that can cast lev9 spells at 3M and few Xp, Aerie needs 6M xp as a multi and Haer'Dalis will never go beyond lev6 spells.
@GenderNihilismGirdle thanks for the response, and I love your name! Why did you choose it?
Janeira drives me crazy. Dump her ASAP. I highly recommend adding the Coran mod and then playing
Prot (dwarf F/C)
Aerie
Minsc
Neera
Coran
Valygar>Yoshimo>Imoen
It is a pleasure having all of the magical horsepower. Minsc and Prot are tanks. Coran is a terrific archer and two handed sword user. Later on when he gets white dragon armor and "use any weapon" he really becomes awesome.
Keldorn is cool as cucumber, and a battle veteran. Any warrior type who isn't crippled, maimed, crazy and old enough to turn gray has to be doing something right. Mazzy is younger, but is no less able than keldorn. Korgan is an asshole, but he isn't treacherous, or crazy.
So for me, Edwin and Virconia were a must.
As for Minsc, first time playing BG1 I already had a full party, (X, M, J , K, I), the mines had been signposted a lot as being the most important, so said no to Minsc's quest and he attacked.
And on a subsequent run, attacked again when I didn't rescue Dy in the alloted time.
I have never understood why Minsc is seen as a big hero when a naive player can be killed for making a mistake when they never meant any harm.
Fully expected to do his quest after the mines in that first run.
Who in their right mind would have anything to do with him?
Family?
He's a mindless killer when he doesn't get his own way. Which is shown again when you can't innitially get his cage open.
*Edited for grammar error*
Oh I don't mind that he attacks, just annoyed that it's overlooked with the whole "loveable Minsc/cannon character" business.
The voice acting is great, huge part of BG, can't imagine no Minsc.
But making it so obvious that that is the real reason of keeping him on board by the developers, is kind of immersion breaking.
RPG wise, no innocent (or their guardians) charname would ever contemplate having such an unstable and dangerous character in the party.
It's not a matter of a "safe choice", first time player inadvertantly speaks to random in the street, choice is to drop two party members or get attacked.
Subsequent playthroughs you know not to talk to him, but that first time set the tone for me. He's a nutter and after doing the quest, want nothing more to do with him.
How on earth would you ever rest?
He might listen to the hamster and attack.
You think?
Hmm, those beady little eyes and the whiskers........Nah I smell a rat.
Hat?
Guys, let's find a compromise
And I don't want to discourage anyone to play them, even in the first run.
My point is only that to get the better from a blade a little knowledge is needed, while other classes are more self evident in how they should be played. Fight oriented ones are basically point and click ones, even if potions and items can help them in tough situations. Casters are... casters, so you know that you have to learn their magic and use it.
Blades are often regarded as a very weak class by who don't know how to use them, less spells than a mage, only 1 base APR, same thac0 of thieves. they seem to miss a lot of hits when they mlee, do little damage ranged and have few spells, and a not ideal AC, unless you equip them with armors that prevent them from casting.
But if you give to them 1, or later 2 +1APR weapon while dual welding they have 3-4 APR, if you give them the items that rise their thac0, like some bracers and use the lev 2 spell that rise their strength to 18/50 or use a potion or item that rise their STR, after few levels they begin to hit very often. And you can use the defensive spin (-10AC), eventually combined with blur and/or improved invisibility to get a very low (so very good) AC, much better of the one of the best fighter equipped with the best armor and shield. This prevent them from moving, so you have to use it strategically, send the blade, have the enemies attacking him and at the appropriate moment activate the spin. And doing so the enemies will hit only very few times, so they will take no damage and their stoneskin will last a very long time. When you use the offensive spin they gain an additional APR, some thac0, some DMG and auto roll for maxed DMG, so will be as damaging as a fighter if not better.
They can be the better tanks or hit as the better fighters, depending on which spin you use.
They can not wear helmets, so are not protected from critical hits, but they can use ioun stones instead, that protect them like helmets, when you will find it give the one that grans also a thac0 point.
And even if they gain less lore than unkitted bards they gain much more lore than any other class, after some levels you will forget the identify spell, so more available spells for your mages.
As casters they will never go further than casting lev6 spells, the mages reach level 9.
But a bard level up faster than a single class mage, so for a long part of the game will be the bard to have the better spells, when he uses spells that for damage or duration are dependent on the level of the caster.
A blade is not the best caster and will never be the perfect only caster of the party, but is the best suppost caster, the 2nd mage of the party.
At 3M XP they can get HLA, and the first 2 that they should get are improved bard song, that improves greatly every party member (and friendly summon) and use any item, that let them equip every item, so helmets and shields that before they could not use, and weapons that are reserved to some classes or even NPCs.
Those are the basics of the blade, and is a quite long textwall. You can write the basics of a fighter in 5 rows, this is the reason why I tell that for new players can be complicated to play. They are indeed, but as you learn you will discover how strong they can be.
You have only to be willing to use some micromanagment, they are definitely not a point and click class.
So even if is your first run try them, you will be satisfied and have fun in learning to play them. But if you are lazy, if you don't like to have to use spells to buff them, prepare the battle (position the party members) to make good use of their spins, chose the best spells to memorize, deciding how much self protecting spells and how much level dependent ones memorize, then chose an other class that needs less maintenance.
P.S. I, for one, never mind long posts. I really enjoy getting detailed perspectives from other BG players about anything related to BG.
Later the blade can use the improved song to get the -10AC all day long, if he wishes, being prevented from casting in the same round, but not from moving around or even physical attacking (intense micromanagement needed for that), and can alternate offensive spins (better apr and other dmg bonuses) with improved haste (double APR).
Not all day long, but enough for some tough battles, lets say to clear a couple of dungeons and fight a dragon each day, as minor foe really don't need much buffing and usually in a dungeon there are no more than 3-4 medium-hard battles + final boss. Assuming efficiency in combat, for a beginner I would say enough for a dungeon and maybe also the final boss, but many beginners sleep anyway before it.
I am not talking of having a single mislead clone singing, for now.
And I am not certainly talking of legal extremes (legal because using the features of the game as they are implemented, not as each one think that they should be used or not used according to PnP, game balance or other things). Because after 3M xp, combining spells, a certain helm, and scrolls he can give to all the party and summons something like -40 thac0 and AC and +40 dmg, a good MR and immunity to Stun, Fear and Confusion and immunity to Normal Weapons, using, but without wasting a single scroll, while himself has -46 AC and attacks physically, improved hasted. That is the REAL power of a 3M and something XP blade.
I also fail to understand the concept of primary or secondary, even if I have used it before (but because the bard can not cast lev7-9 spells, and that mean that he can not be primary because is something he can not replicate even for a short period),
in my actual party I have Nalia and Aerie, that is the ideal in that party composition, but also Neera, decision taken at the last moment, because is my first EE run and I want to give her a try. Is not ideal, as the leveling strategy for that party was perfect with 4 people, with 5 they grow slower than I like (and I never learn/erase spells, self given rule).
Who is my primary caster? All 3 are. The primary caster is the one who gets the robe in a particular situation, usually Aerie, that has more spells and benefit also in her clerical casting, but Neera, if I want to spam dewomers, with a PI, much safer than without, or Nalia if is more useful to cast fast the spells that she has memorized.
I have in the same party a FMT, a kensai and a blade (Nalia is modded to be a Kensage that is the reason why there are only 5 party members), who is the primary damage dealer? According to the situation can be each one of the 3, and their percentage of kills confirm this.
So I have 3 primary mages, and in each of the situations 5 secondary ones, 4 possible primary tanks, and 3 primary damage dealers.
But probably is my own playstyle that make me think that primary and secondary something is only a self imposed limitation that we give to ourselves as players, not something that is set in stone.