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Player character shapeshifters/werewolves in BG:EE

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  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    However in contrast to other playable shapechangers such as Transmuters, who shift forms via the application of magical energy, the Shapeshifter's case should be regarded as a special case. It is clear from its kit layout that this is a natural transformation. Or in other words, a second “true form“. They don't even try to imitate another creature like standard Druids either.

    Continuing from my previous post:
    The way the Werewolf forms are implemented doesn't feel like it's part of the Druids very being. Rather, it reminds me more of the botched up Melicamp... the wolf version. An arcane spell gone wild, but oddly enough the mageling is still being in full control.
    A more believeable and thematically correct way of handling the transformation would have been to create one single Werewolf form, not two. And have this second true form gradually become stronger with each level. This would allow for both non-overpowered starts and provide a way to make them uniquely enough from Mages. Just my two cent.

    Okay, okay, I'll stop now. Please stop throwing vegetables. Oh noes, not the turnips... AAAAGHH!
  • catsarekacampcatsarekacamp Member Posts: 52
    Danacm said:

    elminster said:

    Couple of things worth noting here:

    As others have noted the weimer mod is balanced around the use of the tactics mod. The regeneration rate the greater form gets alone makes it unbalanced for SoA.

    Every shapechange form (except for maybe the higher level druid hla's) is different from their wild counterparts. The shapeshifter's forms are not unique in that regard. So it not matching up with other shapeshift/shapechange forms is consistent with how the series has handled them.

    If its an adnd 2 game, the druid shapeshift form is the exact same as the wild animals form. An average specimen from that animal. Here is from adnd 2 compelet druid handbook:
    "The animal form a druid assumes can vary
    from the size of a bullfrog or small bird to that
    of a black bear. Unless noted otherwise, the
    druid can assume only the form of a normal
    (real-world) animal in normal proportions. A
    druid in animal form takes on all the beast's
    physical characteristics- movement rate,
    abilities, Armor Class (AC), number of
    attacks, and damage per attack. The druid
    retains original hit point and saving throw
    values."

    So the druid retains only saves and hp, everything else should be the same as the animals, i know baldurs gate is a modded adnd game, but there were basic rules, and nobody ever stated that shapeshift in this games is use different rules than adnd 2.
    And those are perfectly acceptable guidelines for the druid shifting into a badger meerkat.
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Can the spell not just be tweaked in NI to change the druid into the actual werewolf / greaterwerewolf.cre, rather than the .cre it currently changes you into?

    I'm prepared to test this later but at work right now so asking those with more modding experience @subtledoctor
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  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Cheers, sounds like a good work around. Should I get around to making that anytime soon I'll link it here.
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    I'm struggling to create this for some reason.

    Found that both shapeshifter (normal and greater) use the same weapon apparently, BRBRP.ITM. I made a copy and modded both (one for normal ww and a second for gww) to change the damage (number of dice and size of dice), as well as the enchantment value, but am having trouble making any effects I attach actually work. Below is an example:

    Type Regeneration (98)
    Target Self (1)
    Power 0
    Unknown 05 00 00 00 h
    Unknown 02 00 00 00 h
    Timing mode Instant/While equipped (2)
    Dispel/Resistance No dispel/bypass resistance (0)
    Duration 0
    Probability 1 100
    Probability 2 0
    Unknown 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 77 h
    # dice thrown/maximum level 0
    Dice size/minimum level 0
    Save type ( No save )
    Save bonus 0
    Unknown 00 00 00 00 h

    I copied some of the "unknown" values from the ring that the greater wolfwere has for his regeneration, as I've no idea what they actually do!

    Hoping @subtledoctor or anyone else with more experience than me might know where I'm going wrong (have tried and failed with various attempts).
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Also, from what I can see the spells (SPCL643 & SPCL644) don't actually use any .CRE resource, it just manually gives you some boosts in certain areas (stats & resistances). The rest comes from BRPRP.ITM

    I kinda wish I could mod the regen and immunities into the spells, but I've not managed that either (possibly for the same reasons).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    It lets me edit those values, just doesn't tell me what they do... I imagined copying some values from the regen item given to wolfwere's might do the trick, but nope.

    That other way is something entirely new to me but I'll try if I give up on NI!
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 951
    No, because the regen item is in the cre file, but not used with polymorph technically.
    Easiest way : look spcl 643 this is the wereeolf shapeshift spcl file, in its effectsm there is an effect: its create a weapon.
    Go to items and copy brbrp.itm to xyz.itm. than go to spcl643 and replace create weapon resource from brbrp.itm to xyz.itm.
    Go to xyz.itm, it has effects as i remember, than add effect to it, with a timing: instant while equipped, so when u use the spcl643 in game, it creates a weapon that gives u the abilities u want to, bit when u remove it via natural form ability it removes.
    Effect: regeneretaing, immunity to weapons etc opcodes.
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  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Thanks @Danacm - I've gotten to grips with NI enough to have done pretty much that already (I created a new weapon from the BRBRP.ITM for the GWW). Still aint happening for me... the damage etc all works as I intend, but the effects dont.
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    edited September 2016
    Actually I believe it is now working! It just isn't giving me any info in the char screen or on the portrait... guess I need to tell the new paws to display whatever .BAM to do that...

    edit: appears to be this one:

    Type Display portrait icon (142)
    Target Self (1)
    Power 0
    Unknown 00 00 00 00 h
    Icon Regenerating (87)
    Timing mode Instant/While equipped (2)
    Dispel/Resistance No dispel/bypass resistance (0)
    Duration 0
    Probability 1 100
    Probability 2 0
    Unknown 00 00 00 00 30 15 40 00 h
    # dice thrown/maximum level 0
    Dice size/minimum level 0
    Save type ( No save )
    Save bonus 0
    Unknown 00 00 00 00 h
  • redlineredline Member Posts: 296
    elminster said:

    ...the shapeshift wolf form doing 1d8 damage instead of the 1d4 damage that a generic wild one would do...

    Wait, wild wolves only do 1d4? Is that modified by something? I feel like the number of level 1 corpses along the Lion's Way might attest to them being a bit more deadly.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited September 2016
    redline said:

    elminster said:

    ...the shapeshift wolf form doing 1d8 damage instead of the 1d4 damage that a generic wild one would do...

    Wait, wild wolves only do 1d4? Is that modified by something? I feel like the number of level 1 corpses along the Lion's Way might attest to them being a bit more deadly.
    I wasn't including strength bonus in that (they share the same strength so it doesn't matter). Your generic wolf would do 1d4+2 damage with strength included.

    On that topic unlike player wolf characters the generic wolf creature file (wolf.cre) only gets 1 apr. So life could be a lot worse for new characters coming out of candlekeep if shapeshifts matched up with wild enemies :)
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    @subtledoctor @Danacm thanks for your help guys.

    Still not got things 100%, but I have it to the point where I have the regen and immunity to weapons, along with modding the paws to do pretty much anything else I need them to.

    Still not got the gww stats tho, as per the .cre file it's based on... seems odd that. I've no idea why it doesn't just copy the full cre. stats but it doesn't for some reason.
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  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 951
    Im not a professional modder like @subtledoctor but glad to help @jesterdesu .
    Hm, okay there is another soution, without
    polymorph and cre files. The animation change opcode. Used to when mr, elemental resistances were set stats in cre files amd polymorph, i used animation change to shapeshift. You need to delete the polymorph effect from spcl643, but keep the create weapon. Than go to the weapon itm, and add effect, change animation opcode or smthing like that the name, and you can select werewolf animation, timing is instant when wielded. After that add effects one by one to set strength, dex, con and whatever you want to add when wield the item. So in this method, you change your character animation to werewolf when create the claws, but not using any cre file. And you can add stats and effects in the itm file too.
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