Your "pet hate" quests in gaming - to set the tone: anything "cattle" in Mount & Blade
All of us here own a lot of joy to gaming developers I think.
I love M&B when typically it is not my immersion. But still I am unable to decide if the cattle quests are impish humour by developers because they are so hateful, or they are design grit to avoid all quests being desirable.
The reason I can rant about this that I am just now putting to test if a female lead character really never gets offered a fief. I think probably not, my renown is 900+ now - but besides merc'n up for the weakest faction, I've spent unusual time as a free agent for my current M&B playthrough.
Hence the M&B cattle pet hate.
"Rant":
Cattle is slow, demented in path finding and almost evil in M&B Warband - yet as a persistent female lord-to-be I took a bunch from Suno to Ichamur. I got 180 XP!
Next I ransomed a kidnapped girl, from Suno as well, and subsequently battled the bandits that had kidnapped her, near Ada Kulun - just a little further from Ichamur. I got 1100 XP. And could fight bandits on the way, etc.
Mount and Blade fans will get the injury to the insult, I think!
Any quest or enemy types you hate in otherwise well loved games? And do you think it was evil humour, design grit, or maybe just oversight?
I love M&B when typically it is not my immersion. But still I am unable to decide if the cattle quests are impish humour by developers because they are so hateful, or they are design grit to avoid all quests being desirable.
The reason I can rant about this that I am just now putting to test if a female lead character really never gets offered a fief. I think probably not, my renown is 900+ now - but besides merc'n up for the weakest faction, I've spent unusual time as a free agent for my current M&B playthrough.
Hence the M&B cattle pet hate.
"Rant":
Cattle is slow, demented in path finding and almost evil in M&B Warband - yet as a persistent female lord-to-be I took a bunch from Suno to Ichamur. I got 180 XP!
Next I ransomed a kidnapped girl, from Suno as well, and subsequently battled the bandits that had kidnapped her, near Ada Kulun - just a little further from Ichamur. I got 1100 XP. And could fight bandits on the way, etc.
Mount and Blade fans will get the injury to the insult, I think!
Any quest or enemy types you hate in otherwise well loved games? And do you think it was evil humour, design grit, or maybe just oversight?
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If a female lead char chooses to join a faction, it is fine by my experience, conquering a lot and having a high renown.
To be clear. The cattle is super annoying IMO either way!
Cattle being slow, demented and evil would also be a pretty accurate simulation.
I do love Mount & Blade, cattle and all, but I felt seriously trolled with my 180 xp after this epic about two and a half game-day treck, but took it with good graces. I was a villing dupe after all.
And had I already been a lordling, then again, my villages would have been raided thrice over during that time, so from this perspective, being slighted worked out okei...
Is there any special quests I dislike? Well, I only ever tried to herd cattle once then never again. I've searched for hidden raider camps for a long time without finding them, trying to find trails and following them, but to no avail. So if I should pick one, it would be that one.
I perso have real diesel reflexes, so upping the speed of the battle always is the biggest difficulty jump for me, but I normally brave it after intiial build up.
In terms of camps, I normally have already found them by ethusiastically batlling bandits per default, but sometimes have almost ran out of time zig-zagging after that bluaady camp.
My pet peeve is namely to rescue and recruit manhunters typically found as prisoners of bandit groups. Once they upgrade to slaver chiefs, they are quite formidable cavalry in thier own right, and taking them to battle is like printing money: they always knock out rather than kill their opponents. Provided of course, you are willing to deal with a ransom broker...
Just in case you did not know, these camps are always near given cities, lord of which tasks you - with mountain bandits (Veluca) & steppe bandits (Ichamurr) being the most annoying to my experience in terms of being the most variable in location. But once you are near the spot, those bandits do really swarm.
50 to 200 is pretty hard battle, especailly if the terrain is unfavorable. Nord or Swadian troops on mountain terrains have been typically a kiss of death for me, as I favour cavalry.
My tips would be:
- recruit a good number of named companions, and ensure they have high medical skills between them, especially the one that allows you to recover HPs after each battle (first aid, if memory serves)
- path finding, spotting, tracking & engineering are also extremely valuable so that you can siege within reason, and to move sizeable party at reasonable speed and find your foes
This results my compansions being bit on the nerdy side, because lot of the charisma based skills are restricted to lead hero anyway, and all of the above is intelligence based, I think.
I also highly recommend lead hero to have high training skill because she or he will be by default always be quite far ahead, and this allows raw recruits to upgrade fast when you have to replenish troops.
As coverd above, manhunters evolve into cash machines, for funding I love having them which allows you to resize your party easily by hiring at taverns should the need arise.
Build consistently a mix of best cavalry, infantry and ranged troops.
Knights (Rhodoc & Vaegir), those slaver chiefs and sarranid mamelukes are my favorite cavalry, Nord huscarls and Swadian sargeants my favorite infantry and crossbow sharpshooters (Rhodoc and Swadian, I think) my ranged troopers. Also Sarranid master archers are quite powerful. Sorry Khergits!
For any sieges the ranged troops backed by companions and infantry should be spooled up to my experience, cavalry works best for land battles.
If odds are very tall, normally I stick with my non-mounted troops to protect them after initial culling of enemy infantry (I always tend to be mounted) if the opponent has sizeable cavalry. After first onslaught, the quality of enemy troops normally drops pretty fast.
But yeah, no more cattle for me, unless I am following a marshall and tasked with it. And even then I always have to fool around villages until I can buy it, as my pretty much only principle is that I do not hassle peasats in-game.
Hope you'll find those lairs & get that optimal mix of troops! In case you also become a slaver chief fan, pray feel free to drop a little PS...
I very rarely use cav. I think it's difficult to have alot of different groups to order around during combat and cav tend to be .. overlooked by me. I try to play quite defensively, lining up my inf ahead of my ranged and let them rain death on the enemy while I cruise around myself and try to flank the enemy while my defensive lines hold their own, without me actively coaching them. This is probably not the best strategy
What do you do with the gold from ransoming? I've found that after some time I don't really need gold since I have the best equipment possible and can recruit and pay for my men, as well as, invest in a fief or city if I have one. What I think is most difficult is to get my faction to actually WIN anything. The best I ever managed was to get my faction, the Nords, to take out 3 castles IIRC, two from swadia in the middle and one from the khergits. I also kept the maximum number of prisoners from the swadia to keep them from running around on the map, raising new armies. This means they must have had 5 less nobles than us! They still managed to not die since my stupid Nord allies refused to push on and actually take out the rest of the castles. In the end, khergits, sarranids and swadians all attacked at once, taking back most what we had gained and the status quo was again reached.
This is what makes me quit playing, the incredible difficulty for me to change the status quo, the power balance between the factions. I probably know the game mechanics too poorly to really make a difference. It's great fun every once and a while anyways though
I am planning to mod it more, I just have some minor mods with decapitations etc. I've seen there are LOADS of mods and I've DL'd a big one making it more medieval.. forgot it's name though.
I've generally have not had morale issues with mixed troops, normally having the base in high nineties unless I reach troop size way over hundred. It mainly takes frequent victorious encounters, for which bandit groups are excellent.
You promted me to go check and compare my troup motivations, thou, and here goes:
Base: 50
Group size: -70 (one on one relationship: 1 troop = -1 morale)
Leadership: +84 (CHA 21, leadership 7)
Food variety: +66
Recent events: 0 (because value is maxed at 99)
I am merc'ing away for Vaegirs for the moment, and right after ceasefire with Nords - soorriii - the invididual troops had following "extra morale": Swadia +7; Vaegirs +1, Khergits: -2 & Nords +2.
I then accepted right away (reasonable) wine-delivery quest to Barryye, and helped a couple of villages to rid them of bandits on the way, plus destryed a bandit lair, and now the "extra morale" is as follows: Swadia +1 & Sarranids +19!
I admit I am surprised how much the food boosts morale, but it also seems that anything that helps or harms the landfolk will have a very heavy bearing on morale. Next time I create a character I might start off with a uniform troops, just out of curiosity.
My working hypothesis is that mixed troops' strenghts are worth it, but of course from role-play perspective flying that Scandi-flag high and consistent is probably aslo very satisfactory! (Says your Finnish neighbour)
I am guessing you chose not to be the marshall of the realm when your fellow-troops let you down in terms of those fiefs? I generally conquer only a few close together-targets, and then end the campaign to defend them from the revenge attacks; assigning lords also to patrol around them, and follow this gradual pattern.
And trust a reasonable woman to know how to spend money well! :-p
First is a guilty admission, but i tend to go through a lot of horses. Once combat AI is anything but the lowest, there seems to be no end to harassment of my poor beast of burden... and I do not really spare it rushing amidst the melee. There is a chance that once the horse is felled it goes lame, so any spirited or champion courser I see, I buy. (BTW: you could consider giving those named companions horses and make them into your cavalry.)
Also, once I am in the fief acquiring path, quite some funds go normally to upkeep of the troops stationed in castles / cities; which of course I systematically try to build to have sharpshooters and infantry, plus bit of cavarly I can call upon.
Especially if i am the marshall or following one, I normally have to sacrifice my villages for greater good, so normally during a war campaing my cash flow can be even negative as tax revenues are looted away. Then I have to make do with ransom and loot myself, though I never raid villages perso. I actually quite hate owning villages as defending them is such a pain!
My previous campaign was a perfectly lucky one, so I got a lot of the fiefs I lead the assault on rewarded to me, and even several cities, which was really sweet. But upkeep costs are quite high as well...
Second of my cities I actually scavanged alone after a faction I was at war with had re-concquered it back from my rival lord - I was not awarded it first time around so I was bit faithless to my fellow-lord, but hey-ho & second time lucky!
Never been marshal of the realm either. I've only got my allied nobles to attack my suggested targets a few times and I've never completed a marriage proposal either. I've kept wooing the same woman for ages but nothing more happens. I even think I recited all the poems that one could recite in my last run, but to no avail. I'm guessing your comment about woman spending money is from marriage?
I usually only ever need one horse for battles. I seem to recall I was one level above the easiest, but based on your comment and my lack of experiece of my horses going lame, I guess I have to play on the lowest diff level then, hehe.. I usually have a lot of horse anyways though since I think it increases my map running speed by the decimal. And yes, all my fighting NPC's get cavalry, but the scholary/nerdy types usually get a xbow or something. I usually put my NPC's at the flanks since most of the time it seems as enemy cav charge in there while I go doing the same on the enemy's flank. Classic warfare strategies.
Having nobles patrolling your settlements sounds cool! Never got that far or had such a position that they would listen to me. I should prolly go read up on some tutorials, haha!
I've lost all saves etc since I recently bought a new computer and haven't manually moved such files. So I will start a new run (once I've finished playing some newer games I've been dying to try out!).
Cheers, and thanks for the great info and sharing! As you said, it's very interresting to read other people's experiences and especially with a game as 'open' as M&B.
I actually had my eyes set on a fellow that had a castle right next to Dhirim that I should like to conquer, romance of the century of course, but the idea of being able to station troops did cross my mind... I more or less got the response: "I want women to stick to domestic stuff, be seen but not heard, and you are really awful!" Give or take...
A lot of stuff is randomized at the beginning including lords' - and I'd guess also ladies' - personalities and dispositons, initial fortunes of nations etc - which I think makes M&B so playble.
To get to be the Marshall...
I think it is mainly renown and having high friendship with lords within your faction, king especially - and maybe also honour rating? (I play the upstanding knight normally so have no comparison)
You do ask frequently for tasks from the lords? Also, rushing to their aid in battle, even against badits will be well perceived. And freeing anyone will gain major friendship, even if this is much easier to do if you are non-aligned to a faction - but also assaulting a keep will do the trick.
If you are bit practical, do look at your potential spouse's relations - if she is related to many a noble within your faction that will help. If you are on a bad footing with a given lord, you can try and speak to his spouse and ask how you can improve your relationship.
Since I have now spent exceptionally long merc'ing, I've discovered a very handy approach to gaining a lot of honour and also friendship: "catch & release" of enemy lords.
So... if you know you are going to side with Nords, you should maybe join a faction at war with them as a merc first, fight your future allies, and release them upon capture.
You will gain renown in any case, and some lords will of course get away being midly annoyed at you combatting them, but it's very effective approach, really! I checked my char, and she has 30 friends amongst lords and no enemies. The fact that you can sneak into prisons when you are merc was another great boost - with faction, I pretty much seem to have to siege the fief as I am viewed as enemy by default.
And it really is my fault with those horses: I like to rush into groups of infantry or ranged troops and hack away for xp and blood frenzy. Tactically idiotic, right? At low combat AI and lowest damage, I hardly ever see my horse killed, but once I notch up both, even lowly bandits become a problem as a group. I suspect horse going lame is also randomized, but if it is all but killed often, it happens.
In any case, the only difficulty setting I really push up a lot with M&B is the battle size - because as said, I have those diesel reflexes. The rest is normally only one up from easiest. I personally view difficulty setting mainly as a great tool to accomodate gaming enjoyment to more gamers, also those whom do not have intrinsic affinity with a given combat style or genre.
I play Mass Effect series on easy because I am also quite sucky at shooters, and really play it as an RPG, while being very thankful "easy" is accessible enough for me! With Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age (minus DA:I) I enjoy combat the best at hard. I was meanwhile very pleasd that Beamdog made story-mode available for Dragonspear. I'd certainly had more than welcomed that option on one particular Mass Effect 3 battle - the one where you combat a Reaper on foot! I almost gave up on that one...
Edit: spelling. Wish my browser had auto spellcheck, one of the greatest computer text releated inventions since "undo"!
I do, but failry quickly once I've reached a decent position, they always respond with something like this: "I have, but not for noble man in your position. I'll send one of my lackeys instead". I have to admit, getting into the relationships have so far felt too daunting.. I started browsing once and read a bit, but have to admit it became to much and I instead became frustrated and took it out on a nearby bandit gang. This is brilliant. I always try to keep my lords captured as long as possible to remove them from the field, thus reducing the number of opposing units in huge castle battles etc. But this tactic of yours sounds really, really interresting. Next time around I'll try your mercing approach for a longer period before choosing a faction. Haha, that sounds.. not superb, to be frank
Btw, @tstael, have you been looking into M&B 2 Bannerlord anything? If yes, what are your thoughts?
But never have I ever completed a cattle quest
Can't wait for Bannerlord. The engine looks great from what I've seen so far, though I'll have a hard time building a computer powerful enough to handle the battle scale I need.
I was a bit put off from anything but Warband by that gun-inclusive expansion I did not like, whatever it was, but if Bannerlord is great and it is high time to put my prejududice to bed - heck, I'd like to hear it too!!
No to all cattle quests? Even from the sad, pleading elder of your own village; or your marshall? Your strenght in saying "no" to infuriating sub-quests is to be admired, but hey-ho, one would except so from a divine being, eh... :-p
Meanwhile, it is the slight flirtation with the RPG that such quests represent probably makes me such a staunch fan of Mount & Blade, even when I hate riding in any other game.
I am slightly mystified why I like M&B as much as I do - but that is part of the charm.
If a story driven RPG campaign proper might ever be included unto a M&B war campaign setting proper - now; that is the game I really would be interested to see!
Fancy that - no fear either way with us I think!
I am indeed a woman gamer whose immersion is the most easily glorious with a female char, but just any good character will do. I am a fan in no uncertain terms of Gothic, Risen (minus Risen 3 - did not like the bro-char hero) and Two Worlds - it also could be reversedly true for Tomb Rider, should I like the gaming genre, but I do not.
Having rolled a male M&B hero though, whom got offered a fief very easily, I just wanted to see how hard or impossible it would be for a female character. I do not mind that it is impossible, only I feel I need to try and see if I can raise my own faction and become the emperess of all lands. Never tried that before, and I think it is very hard.
Have not tried "Bannerlord" - but as said above, I'd love to hear as much as you, if I should.
And yeah, I should have challenged that hostile lordling on the spot - next time I will have the precencse of mind, I hope! I do think there are a very very rare douchebag lords to brow-beat a female hero, but it certainly was more brutal than what I received as a rejection when playing male... Could be coincidence too, but I was still very pleased when this creature was banished to another faction by treachery and lost that castle!
Just try the mercing appraoch once, and see what gives! I for one would like to know. :-)
Bannerlord fans or haters - pray do tell us!
Edit: Bannerlord vs "warbanner" - must I be even more embarassed than about my poor use of horses!!! (playful smiley here)
Turned out it is relatively hard for a female lordling to find a morally benevolent suitor - the debauched, scheming types are much more willing.
So after long and hard search I decided on a Nord lord Meltor with a horrible mustache and only a sister for family, but hey-ho, he was the rigtheous type, and even had a village!
(BTW - even gameworld marriage is hard, it seems: I had to consult fora to learn how one marries a male lord; after running half the world-map like an idiot looking for a feast, or skald to point me to one. Hum...
With my fame, high relations, honour etc I am promptly made the Marshall, raise an army, conquer two castles, get my first conquered castle rewarded to me. Then I see that King wants to reward me with my husband's village. Wut???? I learn from checking his character record he has been banished!!
"Fy fan!" I think:
I just cannot let this pass, that's my in-game spouse you banished when I was prepared to be loyal; and unjustly, too, no less.
So I find the poor banished Meltor unhappily patrolling Veluca, and ready or not - our own faction it is!! With me as Queen - quite obviously.
By the time I managed to speed all the way back to my "original castle" and its village I got to keep as rebel HQ, Ragnar and friend were already raiding my only village.
In a highly satisfying coup, I manged to persuade the other lord to join my faction evening the odds out significantly - but not having been able to really prepare my emancipation that first battle against king's army in a village was really horrendously hard!!
That banishing husband thing really was not what I ever anticipated. But with hindsight, it feels like the most righteous way to start your own kingdom.
After that first crucial victory, and after recruiting a number of lords, conquering a city in a one-front war was doable, which means my faction is in the long-play.
So to start a faction, playing female proved great! But the way the righteous in-game spouse was banished was certainly a big surprise.
Edit: hockey...
OK, I gotta admit that playthrough of yours sounds so fricking EPIC! I would have loved to have seen that as a "lets play". All those twists and turns ending with you chasing down your hubby and revolting against the Nords, turning their own lords against them. That's the stuff of legends, right Boo?!
What you describe here is exactly why I like these kind of open games, you cannot script that (well ofc you COULD, but then it would end up the same every time you played). I truly applaud you decisions and the way you played out the occurrences in your game.
Maybe I'll try to play female next time and apply those tips and tricks of yours for a very different approach to the game compared to what I normally do. Just recently got SoD though, so gonna do a saga run and are writing on a playthrough for that, but afterwards I might have to install my old M&B again
Laughed out loud when your wrote "Fy fan", haha
I watched alot of bannerlords clips on youtube recently. I really does look just like M&B in a newer engine. They talk about all the changes etc, but really.. it's exactly the same, haha
About hockey; to be frank, I stopped watching alot of sports some years ago. I just realized I had too little time to do everything I wanted in life, so I had to prioritize. I stopped following sports actively, which was very hard in the beginning (almost like quitting smoking, heh) but nowadays I only watch the bigger events like the olympics, the world cup etc. So, with that said, I don't even know about Sweden's last games or the results! I take it we lost though
I've frankly been pleasantly surprised how much I have liked my own faction! I would recommed giving it a try, really.
Some of the attacks especially in the beginning were owerwhelming but I simply dropped the damage taken to minimum to weather that storm. I had a six-round battle against Ragnar in a village that left me quite decimated, with only about 15 troops standing and my poor horse outright killed - but it was quite satisfying to overcome! (proudly beaming smiley here)
What I like the best, I think, is that one can always be the Marshall without vexing everyone, but handing it out to another is seen as an honour that gains positive relationship. As a vassal being a Marshall or following one is bit of a chore, IMO.
When I am not targeting specific fiefs I normally delegate, so that I can defend villages behind the lines. I even had one whole city conquered by my obviously competent marshall when I was exacting swift justice to would-be looters!
With hindsight, I'd have paid a bit more attention to lords' personalities in the first stages - though I did feel moral obligation to accept my probably either immoral or ruthless brother-in-law...
And if you take the jump, be prepared you have to bank-roll heavily in the beginning. I think I had to finance about 70k in the beginning stages, net of looting and ransoming too!
And another female-lordling perk I've discovered: I can manage in-game spouse's garrisoned troops and prisoners as if they were my own!
I have a tendency to commit my fandom beyond individual games to development studios, not by defaul but when there is something about them I want to support. Writing style, attitude, innovation etc. So I think I will be inclined to buy Bannerlord.
Mount & Blade is a game that has so many gameplay elements I don't generally like, just coming together in a way I cannot help but love! I hope Bannerlord will be innovative and exciting, of course - but I just think that gaming is better for having TaleWords studio on it, and I want to support them.
What I would love to see one day in the franchise is a chance to play "Wilhelm Tell" - or mount a republican confederation in style of emergence of Switzerland! (Or "Eidgenossenschaf" - "valaliitto" in Finnish, gotta love that word!)