Minsc, Aerie and ToB... (Spoilers)

Nightingale

Hi all!

So, I've just completed SoA for the first time this morning (an amazing story, btw). My team consisted of Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen, Aerie and a mod NPC by the name of Nathaniel. We've been through a lot together and I had every intention of bringing this team all the way to the end of ToB. Now that I've reached ToB and spoken with Sarevok however, I don't know if I'll do that. Initially I just gave Sarevok the finger as I had no intention of bringing a bloodthirsty warlord with aspirations of godhood back to life. But after walking around for a bit, it seems like I'm forced to take part in his deal to continue. This poses a dilemma.

From a good-aligned RP perspective, the only reason for taking Sarevok with me is to keep him on a leash. I mean, if I HAVE to bring that murderous bastard back to life, it would be downright irresponsible to let him roam the land unsupervised. Problem is, there really aren't many RP reasons to remove one of my teammates either. Nathaniel is my lover, so obviously he's not going anywhere. Imoen is my little sister and has been with me from the beginning. I spent half of SoA trying to rescue her and the other half trying to restore her soul. She obviously means a lot to me, so she too isn't going anywhere. Jaheira became my personal guardian after the passing of Gorion. She's family and has honestly become something of a mentor to me. She stays. This leaves only Minsc and Aerie. Now Aerie is the newcomer, true. But she and I have also been through a lot. She's grown since we first met, but I think she still needs a good friend to lean on from time to time. What's more, she's definitely the more fragile, less emotionally stable one of the pair. Minsc is nuts, but he's always been nuts. It's part of the reason why I love him. And the death of Dynaheir has only made him even more nuts for taking the boot heel of justice to the backside of evil. He'll be fine. (Not to mention, even with my dedication to RP-ing, I just can't bring myself to dismiss my mage/cleric for Sarevok of all people.)

So if anyone is leaving, it's going to be Minsc. The reasons for him leaving are still a bit on the flimsy side though. Like Jaheira, he's practically family at this point. The thing that would have sealed the deal in favor of him staying was the fact that kicking him out would mean separating him from his new witch (There's no way I'd do that). Problem is, even after having him and Aerie together for the entirety of SoA, not once did banter ever occur between them. At first I thought that it might have been a ToB only development, but I'm seeing that people have gotten the banter well before that point. Now I'm starting to wonder if the banter can even occur at this point in the game.

So I guess my question is two-fold: Can Minsc still make Aerie his witch? And if not, should I dismiss him for Sarevok? I have no idea if him making Aerie his official wychlaran has any effect on their epilogues, but I'd like to believe that they continue to travel together, eventually reaching Rashamen, where Misnc's tales of heroism and his newfound witch gain him access to the Ice Dragon Berserker lodge like he's always dreamed. Is there a chance that I'll get to indulge this headcannon fantasy?

megamike15

you don't really need serevok in the party. sure along with imoen he is important pot wise. but i've gone through tob twice and still have not used him. the issue is by the time you get him you have a full party you'd have to kick someone out or go all of soa with only five members.

DJKajuru

Since you like roleplaying so well, I can give you some suggestions :
1- sarevok does indeed have a important role in ToB , and considering that your character is good aligned having him around can aid you towards the end of this evil prophecy.
2- As for leaving minsc or aerie: if you leave minsc, he will for sure be a mighty hero on his own, if you leave aerie it could be either for her own protection or because she could fight evil (specially slavery) through other sources.
3- It may sound unecessary, but you could also remove both minsc and aerie so they could leave "together", and summon someone else from the pocket plane to fill the 6th slot along with Sarevok.
4- Another alternative would be doing the final fight of SoA again and have one of them die heroically in the final fight.

As you can see, these are all roleplaying suggestions so you can have sarevok in the party. You could just leave him in the pocket plane and go ahead with the party that you've got attached to.

mf2112

I have picked up Sarevok the last couple times through ToB. He isn't the greatest fighter, although I got extremely lucky with some timely death bringer assaults, but RP wise with a good party it feels right to pick him up and complete the circle. Especially because with the right conversation options

you can change

his

last chance

alignment to good.

mf2112

Forgot to mention, Minsc does normally ask Aerie to be his witch at some point, I can't remember when exactly but I do remember him asking her about it.

Nightingale

DJKajuru said:

Since you like roleplaying so well, I can give you some suggestions :
1- sarevok does indeed have a important role in ToB , and considering that your character is good aligned having him around can aid you towards the end of this evil prophecy.
2- As for leaving minsc or aerie: if you leave minsc, he will for sure be a mighty hero on his own, if you leave aerie it could be either for her own protection or because she could fight evil (specially slavery) through other sources.
3- It may sound unecessary, but you could also remove both minsc and aerie so they could leave "together", and summon someone else from the pocket plane to fill the 6th slot along with Sarevok.
4- Another alternative would be doing the final fight of SoA again and have one of them die heroically in the final fight.

As you can see, these are all roleplaying suggestions so you can have sarevok in the party. You could just leave him in the pocket plane and go ahead with the party that you've got attached to.

Those are some excellent RP reasons I hadn't thought of for bringing Sarevok into my motley crew, though I personally prefer to keep my characters alive unless I'm doing a hardcore run. I guess I could trust that Minsc would be fine on his own, if push comes to shove. Since he has yet to ask Aerie about becoming his witch, I have no qualms about separating them, at least during this run. I appreciate the ideas!

mf2112 said:

Forgot to mention, Minsc does normally ask Aerie to be his witch at some point, I can't remember when exactly but I do remember him asking her about it.

Yeah, therein lies my main issue. I know that Minsc can ask Aerie to be his witch at some point during a banter, but SoA has come and gone and I've yet to see it. If it could occur during ToB, I might be willing to keep him around in order to trigger it. But I have since seen what the banter looks like, and Aerie specifically references Irenicus and avenging Dynaheir (in the future tense, as if it has yet to happen). This leads me to believe that it may be too late to have this banter occur, now that I've moved into this section of the game (the same way you can keep Aerie and Korgan together if you can avoid their breaking point banter until ToB).

kamuizin

From metagaming perspective, if sarevok enter the party we will fill the exactly role Minsc does, unless you changed minsc basics (normally minsc is used for 2 handed pruposes).

From Rp perspective, you could dismiss Minsc and Aerie, as they already achieved their pruposes (minsc already became a notorious adventurer and got a Witch for fim. Aerie already become powerful, supressed her fears and if she goes with minsc she would become an famous Wychlaran).

That would open 1 slot for Sarevok and a 2° slot could be filled by some BG2 - ToB spellcaster JNPC mod (there's at least 1 that i know of).

If you're playing with ascencion mod, you can always recruit balthazar, Bodhi or john in the end, also).

To end, if you're very, but very bold, you can dual class sarevok to mage.

mf2112

Nightingale said:

mf2112 said:

Forgot to mention, Minsc does normally ask Aerie to be his witch at some point, I can't remember when exactly but I do remember him asking her about it.

Yeah, therein lies my main issue. I know that Minsc can ask Aerie to be his witch at some point during a banter, but SoA has come and gone and I've yet to see it. If it could occur during ToB, I might be willing to keep him around in order to trigger it. But I have since seen what the banter looks like, and Aerie specifically references Irenicus and avenging Dynaheir (in a future tense, as if it has yet to happen). This leads me to believe that it may be too late to have this banter occur, now that I've moved into this section of the game (the same way you can keep Aerie and Korgan together if you can avoid their breaking point banter until ToB).

I looked that banter up again, I am pretty sure it is in SoA, and not terribly far into it as I recall although that may have to do with timing going into Ch 3. There aren't any dialog options there, just continuing through it, so maybe it came up during a late night session or something?

Checking the variables in EEKeeper, is MINSCWITCH set to 1 in your game?

Nightingale

kamuizin said:

From metagaming perspective, if sarevok enter the party we will fill the exactly role Minsc does, unless you changed minsc basics (normally minsc is used for 2 handed pruposes).

From Rp perspective, you could dismiss Minsc and Aerie, as they already achieved their pruposes (minsc already became a notorious adventurer and got a Witch for fim. Aerie already become powerful, supressed her fears and if she goes with minsc she would become an famous Wychlaran).

That would open 1 slot for Sarevok and a 2° slot could be filled by some BG2 - ToB spellcaster JNPC mod (there's at least 1 that i know of).

If you're playing with ascencion mod, you can always recruit balthazar, Bodhi or john in the end, also).

To end, if you're very, but very bold, you can dual class sarevok to mage.

Yes, from a metagame perspective, Minsc is the obvious choice to switch out for Sarevok, especially since I had him in a two-handed heavy role for my party. I don't know, it just never felt right using anything other than a two-handed sword as his primary weapon, given how often he references it in dialogue. Releasing both Minsc and Aerie is another option as is dueling Sarevok into a mage, though I don't think I'd do the latter. (Sarevok just doesn't strike me as a "one with the weave" type).

Slightly off-topic, but what's your opinion on the Ascension mod and its changes to the game? I was eyeing it for a little while, but decided to try and keep the game as mod free as possible for my first full run. (Nathaniel is the only one I've installed).

mf2112 said:

Nightingale said:

I looked that banter up again, I am pretty sure it is in SoA, and not terribly far into it as I recall although that may have to do with timing going into Ch 3. There aren't any dialog options there, just continuing through it, so maybe it came up during a late night session or something?

Checking the variables in EEKeeper, is MINSCWITCH set to 1 in your game?

That's what I figured. The dialogue seems too specific to SoA to occur now. And lol! No, I don't think my insomniac tendencies can be blamed for this one. As late as some of my sessions have been, I can usually recall what happens during them and get off once I start nodding

As for the variable in EEKeeper, I just finished checking a number of saves I have and oddly enough, that MINSCWITCH variable you mentioned is nowhere to be found, even in the save I have from immediately after the confrontation between the Cowled Wizards and Irenicus. Perhaps you're correct in thinking that the banter is time sensitive and won't occur after chapter 3. I also removed Minsc for a VERY brief moment in order to have Valygar open the door to the Planar Sphere before bringing him back into the party. Maybe that caused the issue?

kamuizin

Ascencion only take effect in Throne of Bhaal part of the game. The base of the mod is to give sequence to John and Bodhi story in throne of bhaal and to make the final fight of ToB something seriously hard.

It can optionally improve the fights of the Five. If you don't know them yet, soon you will.

Also, i don't know if it's optional or not, it change the bhaal essence progression, by recovering your innate powers with your soul and near the end of ToB upgrading the slayer in the Ravager.

It will change some critical content of ToB (change to better), but it will barely touch SoA part of the game.

mf2112

Nightingale said:

mf2112 said:

I looked that banter up again, I am pretty sure it is in SoA, and not terribly far into it as I recall although that may have to do with timing going into Ch 3. There aren't any dialog options there, just continuing through it, so maybe it came up during a late night session or something?

Checking the variables in EEKeeper, is MINSCWITCH set to 1 in your game?

That's what I figured. The dialogue seems too specific to SoA to occur now. And lol! No, I don't think my insomniac tendencies can be blamed for this one. As late as some of my sessions have been, I can usually recall what happens during them and get off once I start nodding

As for the variable in EEKeeper, I just finished checking a number of saves I have and oddly enough, that MINSCWITCH variable you mentioned is nowhere to be found, even in the save I have from immediately after the confrontation between the Cowled Wizards and Irenicus. Perhaps you're correct in thinking that the banter is time sensitive and won't occur after chapter 3. I also removed Minsc for a VERY brief moment in order to have Valygar open the door to the Planar Sphere before bringing him back into the party. Maybe that caused the issue?

Removing characters can do odd things sometimes. MINSCWITCH is actually in the Global Variables tab, not under Minsc's Local variables. There is another one right below it, MINSCWITCHTIMER, in the 4m range so probably milliseconds or something.

Nightingale

mf2112 said:

Removing characters can do odd things sometimes. MINSCWITCH is actually in the Global Variables tab, not under Minsc's Local variables. There is another one right below it, MINSCWITCHTIMER, in the 4m range so probably milliseconds or something.

Yeah, that's the tab I checked (and then checked the local tab for good measure.) I just checked once more and again, nothing. The only variables that appear to be Minsc related are MINSCDELON, MINSCREMINDSIMNESVALE, and MINSCRIFTG01A. Chances are removing Minsc probably caused some shenanigans behind the scenes. Damn... And after all my dedication to keeping my team as stable as possible for banters like that one. I even kept Nalia out during her quest, which can mean the difference between being rewarded with a 10,000 gp fortune and being given 750 gp in pocket change. Oh well. I'll just have to keep that in mind for future runs.

mf2112

That is a bummer for sure. The run that I checked was a 5 member party since I was leaving a spot open to rotate in temporary people during SoA and then to pick up Sarevok in ToB. I got tired of dropping people and then going to pick them up, and 5 is enough to distribute and use a lot of good gear. With 4 or less, I feel like I am wasting (or hoarding more likely!) a lot of really good gear. If dragons knew what the Bhaalspawn had in their bag by the start of ToB there would be an endless series of attacks from every direction. Dragons would be coming from all over Toril for such a hoard.

mf2112

Nightingale said:

mf2112 said:

Removing characters can do odd things sometimes. MINSCWITCH is actually in the Global Variables tab, not under Minsc's Local variables. There is another one right below it, MINSCWITCHTIMER, in the 4m range so probably milliseconds or something.

Yeah, that's the tab I checked (and then checked the local tab for good measure.) I just checked once more and again, nothing. The only variables that appear to be Minsc related are MINSCDELON, MINSCREMINDSIMNESVALE, and MINSCRIFTG01A. Chances are removing Minsc probably caused some shenanigans behind the scenes. Damn... And after all my dedication to keeping my team as stable as possible for banters like that one. I even kept Nalia out during her quest, which can mean the difference between being rewarded with a 10,000 gp fortune and being given 750 gp in pocket change. Oh well. I'll just have to keep that in mind for future runs.

On the positive side, you can let Minsc go without feeling badly.

kamuizin

mf2112 said:

Nightingale said:

mf2112 said:

Removing characters can do odd things sometimes. MINSCWITCH is actually in the Global Variables tab, not under Minsc's Local variables. There is another one right below it, MINSCWITCHTIMER, in the 4m range so probably milliseconds or something.

Yeah, that's the tab I checked (and then checked the local tab for good measure.) I just checked once more and again, nothing. The only variables that appear to be Minsc related are MINSCDELON, MINSCREMINDSIMNESVALE, and MINSCRIFTG01A. Chances are removing Minsc probably caused some shenanigans behind the scenes. Damn... And after all my dedication to keeping my team as stable as possible for banters like that one. I even kept Nalia out during her quest, which can mean the difference between being rewarded with a 10,000 gp fortune and being given 750 gp in pocket change. Oh well. I'll just have to keep that in mind for future runs.

On the positive side, you can let Minsc go without feeling badly.

That's something that always feel like a bug. Why Nalia's in party pay 10.000 and out of party gives only ~673 gp? It's the only stronghold potential quest that does this.

mf2112

kamuizin said:

mf2112 said:

Nightingale said:

mf2112 said:

Removing characters can do odd things sometimes. MINSCWITCH is actually in the Global Variables tab, not under Minsc's Local variables. There is another one right below it, MINSCWITCHTIMER, in the 4m range so probably milliseconds or something.

Yeah, that's the tab I checked (and then checked the local tab for good measure.) I just checked once more and again, nothing. The only variables that appear to be Minsc related are MINSCDELON, MINSCREMINDSIMNESVALE, and MINSCRIFTG01A. Chances are removing Minsc probably caused some shenanigans behind the scenes. Damn... And after all my dedication to keeping my team as stable as possible for banters like that one. I even kept Nalia out during her quest, which can mean the difference between being rewarded with a 10,000 gp fortune and being given 750 gp in pocket change. Oh well. I'll just have to keep that in mind for future runs.

On the positive side, you can let Minsc go without feeling badly.

That's something that always feel like a bug. Why Nalia's in party pay 10.000 and out of party gives only ~673 gp? It's the only stronghold potential quest that does this.

I think the more accurate description for this stronghold is "the money pit".