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Montaron Joinable NPC for BGII:EE

ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
edited October 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
I know, the first answer by many would be "they cannot change existing content". But, here's the thing, Montaron is not involved at all, anywhere in BGII. You only find an item called "Montaron's Corpse", I believe. He doesn't appear at all in the game, unlike Xzar or Tiax.
So, you could either ignore his corpse or take it to a temple and have him resurrected.

To put it in perspective, if you took Dorn in ToB and you talked to Gromnir, shouldn't dialogue be included between the two? Which in a way changes existing content by adding additional dialogue.
Which is the same as adding dialogue if you took Monty's corpse to a Temple.

Why am I requesting this? Because Monty is perfect for the job.
BGII and ToB lacks any evil Thief, that's a fact and it has been requested by many.

Montaron is Neutral Evil. He's a Fighter/Thief, which in my opinion is better than a pure Thief and I believe, better than an Assassin.
A pure Thief eventually maxes out his thieving abilities and an Assassin, ironically, doesn't have enough until ToB.
Better THAC0 for backstabs (which he loves to do), good at melee and range, better HP, better armor (in case you need another tank), more proficiency points, both Fighter and Thief HLAs, plus Halfling bonuses.
Think of him as a more balanced, evil Coran.

His stats are not great but they can be given an upgrade.
In BG1 it's STR 16, DEX 17, CON 15, INT 12, WIS 13, CHA 9. Like Minsc, Viconia etc, his stats could be given a bump.
His DEX could go to 19 and his STR to 17 and CON to 16.

Plus, his personality is awesome, especially with the banter mod which name eludes me. His quotes are hilarious also.
His portrait could be given a facelift but that is not necessary.
Post edited by Archaos on

Comments

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    I don't know if Montaron is going to be implemented in BG2:EE but I've once read on Trent Oster's tweeter (or was it somewhere on reddit?) that they're aware that BG2 lacks of evil thief. It's hightly possible that it will be solved, maybe even by adding Montaron, but it's only a theory.

    Personally, while playing evil I don't mind Montaron in my party. He's still thousand times more enjoyable character that Jan.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I think they might 'do a Dorn' in BG2:EE and add a new evil thief with a new kit. Maybe a Smuggler? I kinda like the idea of an evil halfling smuggler.

    Monty is amazing, though, and I would be happy at his inclusion. My character might have to lessen her hatred of Harpers for killing her once travelling companions, though. XD
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    Or another solution to the problem could be to get rid of his corpse. But instead of a random assassin being converted from the "bird" its actually Montaron, who has been hired by the Harpers to eliminate his former partner (because of his connections to the zhentarim). He then offers to join your mission having completed his task.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754

    BG2 lacks of evil thief.

    In my opinion, BG2 in general lacks strong and interesting thieves. I mean, you could hardly call Imoen and Nalia a thief, their level in thief is very average, they can't use thief's HLA etc. Yoshimo is not possible in latter stages of BG2 and ToB. Only Jan is left which is not sufficient if you compare, say, with fighters.
    So, another one (or even more than one) will be greatly appreciated, especially Multi F/T. From my point of view, this build (fighter/thief multiclass) is especially good: you save two spots in your party simultaneously.

    Moreover, the developers desided to introduce 3 new NPCs in BG1, so why not to introduce new NPCs in BG2?!

    It will be magnificent to have Multi fighter-thief in BG2 as an NPC and even more magnificent to find that out soon, during playing in BG1 - so that you could go planning your party for BG2 EE during BG EE, for example, invest in those proficiencies of Montaron you like more - to use them not only in BG 1 but also in BG 2.

    So, please, tell us about new NPCs in BG 2 ASAP))
  • MatteoTuriniMatteoTurini Member Posts: 105
    Yeah, Montaron would be a perfect NPC to add to BG2. He's a thief, he's interesting, he's balanced, he has already a relationship with CHARNAME.

    I'm sadly confident it won't happen, though, because of contract limitations. They can add characters, but I think they can't change the ones that are already there in a so consistent way (in one Monty's a dead random character, in the other he's a joinable NPC!)
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited November 2012
    The awesome thing is, that when they add an evil thief in BG2, (I want to believe that it's obvious that they should add one and much preferably a F/T, even if it's not Montaron) when you get Use Any Item you will be able to do some pretty "blasphemous" things with it.
    For example giving them Carsormyr, Keldorn's armor and Jan's special equipment. Finally, making Jan not the best thief in the game anymore.

    Another companion they could add, instead of Monty, is Valen from the very popular mod. Even though she fits to the evil playthrough, she might be too gimicky compared to every other companion. She basically has two modes: overpowered and crap. Though, that's part of the challenge.

    @bengoshi We don't really "need" another evil companion since with Dorn and hopefully the evil Thief, you will fill all the evil slots.
    But, I would love to see a Chaotic Evil Sorcerer NPC since we would still have only one evil Mage (Edwin). Making him insane, similarly to Xzar, would make a nice constrast to Edwin. Maybe he has connections with Xzar and sent by the Zhentarim also.

    Hell, just adding Xzar would be awesome in itself but I think he would be too redundant. Similarly to Nalia and Imoen where both of them do the same thing but Imoen does it better.
    Or, the best of both worlds, turning Xzar into a Sorcerer. Monty and Xzar back in action? Count me in.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    I think that the key is neutral NPCs. Except for F/T (evil), other new NPCs can be neutral. But the main thing is availability of F/T in BG2.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited November 2012
    bengoshi said:

    I think that the key is neutral NPCs. Except for F/T (evil), other new NPCs can be neutral. But the main thing is availability of F/T in BG2.

    Nah, I think we are just fine with neutrals. Most people choose the evil three in BG2 and then pick Haer'Dalis and Jan.
    Also, statistically, we have:
    7 good aligned ones.
    6 Neutrals. 1 dies.
    3 evil ones. Not counting Sarevok.

    With the Enhanced Edition, we would be:
    8 good ones (Rasaad)
    7 neutrals. 1 dies. (Isn't Neera Chaotic Neutral or something?)
    4 evil ones. (Dorn. 5 if they add an evil Thief.)

    So we miss a couple. The evil thief is not guaranteed but logically very likely to be in.
    I would prefer if we had another priest type and mage. Maybe a Cleric of Talos and a Sorcerer. Or just a Cleric/Mage multiclass. Like the counterpart to Aerie.
    The goodies and neutrals have many options already.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    But you don't take into account that not only players with evil parties would like to try new NPCs. The alignment is not such important, the classes are.
    In BG2 there're only 1 (!) thief that can progress through levels, while there're enough fighters and even mages and priests. There're even 2 druids...
    So if you want to try any other class/kit (sorcerer etc) and use HLA for thief - you're entitled to have Jan. This situation is really disappointing, especially when it's your third or forth (and so on) play.
  • MatteoTuriniMatteoTurini Member Posts: 105
    Yeah, in this regard BG2 lacks a lot of replayability, especially if confronted to BG1.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited November 2012
    @bengoshi So every new NPC should be neutral? Dorn is already evil so no 18+ reputation for you, if you want him. I see no reason not adding a couple more evil NPCs.

    BG1 had two evil NPCs of each class almost:
    2-3 main fighters (Kagain, Shar-Teel, Montaron)
    2 Clerics (Tiax, Viconia)
    2 Mages (Xzar, Edwin)
    2 Thieves (Tiax, Montaron)
    1 Bard (Eldoth)

    Sure, in BG2 we traded quantity for quality as in more dialogue etc. But since we are adding new NPCs and we have another fighter added (Dorn) why shouldn't a couple more evil NPCs be added?
    And for me, alignment is important. I don't want a Yoshimo clone. Meaning, pure thief and True Neutral. Or another goody mage.

    There are three goody mages in BG2 (Imoen, Nalia, Aerie).
    Neutrals will have three mages also. (Jan, Haer'Dalis, Neera)
    An evil Sorcerer would add something different other than Edwin, which is the best mage.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Considering what we know:

    1: 2:1 boy boy girl in the new NPCs. Everyone knows it's boy girl boy girl.
    2: They want to include a same-sex romance for the ladies.
    3: They need a primary thief.
    4: People want more evil in their BG2.
    5: All romances involve tall people races.

    Result? I'm thinking Sexy Evil Lesbian Assassin girl, 50/50 it's an Elf or a Halfling.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Would be great to have a a new evil thief NPC in BG2EE, Monty would be great, but so would a new character
  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    For the Nth time:

    1) ADDING material is NOT CHANGING material;
    2) The limitations they have is more an artistic one (they don't want to s**** up the beauty of the original game) than a legal one (they have a lot of free hand in this).

    And yes... we do need a proper evil thief.
    And yes... Montaron would be great.
    And yes... just resurrecting him wouldn't be VIOLATING the original game.
  • SedSed Member Posts: 790
    Gief Monty back.
    And Xzar, destroyer of worlds! :D
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    Sed said:

    Gief Monty back.
    And Xzar, destroyer of worlds! :D

    The thing about Xzar, aside from his awesome personality, is that there is absolutely nothing special about him. No special ability, no special item, nothing.
    Edwin is better at everything than him. Well, maybe Xzar has a bit better physical stats?

    As much as I love Xzar, I think that he is very redundant. Like Nalia.
    Adding a Sorcerer NPC in BG2 would be perfect. Neera is already a Wild Mage and we have all shorts of mages like duals, multis, but no Sorcerer.


  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    Archaos said:

    Sed said:

    Gief Monty back.
    And Xzar, destroyer of worlds! :D

    The thing about Xzar, aside from his awesome personality, is that there is absolutely nothing special about him. No special ability, no special item, nothing.
    Edwin is better at everything than him. Well, maybe Xzar has a bit better physical stats?

    As much as I love Xzar, I think that he is very redundant. Like Nalia.
    Adding a Sorcerer NPC in BG2 would be perfect. Neera is already a Wild Mage and we have all shorts of mages like duals, multis, but no Sorcerer.


    Xzar rocks since he can dual-class to a Thief OR Cleric. Plus Necros aren't that bad with opposition schools (Mirror Image is the best spell he loses out on in BG1). HP is his only downside. Stats make NPCs. Special abilities are cool, but a lot of them are just fluff. Stats = Durability/Usefulness and Xzar has that in spades.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited November 2012
    Sure, but you need tomes for the dual-classing, I believe. At least for Cleric. I agree, stats make NPCs but special abilities help to make them more special.
    Edwin has more spells and more HP. Pretty much, this is all that matters to a mage. Maybe Dexterity too.

    And Montaron is better as a Thief and Viconia better as a Cleric. At least Kagain and Shar-Teel are opposites and both have advantages and disadvantages. Kagain has pure durability with that huge HP. Shar-Teel has pure offense.

    Personally, I would prefer if Xzar was the one that could summon Ghouls or undead, instead of Tiax. I mean, he is a necromancer. Edwin would have the amulet, Xzar the undead but unfortunately that's not the case.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317

    Archaos said:

    Sed said:

    Gief Monty back.
    And Xzar, destroyer of worlds! :D

    The thing about Xzar, aside from his awesome personality, is that there is absolutely nothing special about him. No special ability, no special item, nothing.
    Edwin is better at everything than him. Well, maybe Xzar has a bit better physical stats?

    As much as I love Xzar, I think that he is very redundant. Like Nalia.
    Adding a Sorcerer NPC in BG2 would be perfect. Neera is already a Wild Mage and we have all shorts of mages like duals, multis, but no Sorcerer.


    rocks since he can dual-class to a Thief OR Cleric. Plus Necros aren't that bad with opposition schools (Mirror Image is the best spell he loses out on in BG1). HP is his only downside. Stats make NPCs. Special abilities are cool, but a lot of them are just fluff. Stats = Durability/Usefulness and Xzar has that in spades.
    I'll take health over dexterity for a mage any day, since you can always improve edwin's lack of dexterity. Xzar is fun for his party banter, but his poor initial spell selection and terrible health (better than Xan's health mind you) make him more qualified to be a momentary distraction used when fighting ogres than a serious party member.
  • IchigoRXCIchigoRXC Member Posts: 1,001
    All I have to say on the matter is... TIAX RULES ALL!
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    How would that work with the Harper Hold/Xzar quest where you get fooled into rescuing a bird that's supposed to be Montaron? If Montaron is right there in your party, that quest makes no sense.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    In the first post I say that you should be able to take the corpse to a temple and have him resurrected.
    Which means, that you would only get Montaron after that incident, when the corpse actually appears as an item.
  • WorgWorg Member Posts: 170
    edited November 2012
    I think this is an obvious and welcome addition to BG2. I see no reason why Montaron was left out of the game in the first place. He seems like an obvious choice, quite possibly one of the first sympathetic characters CHARNAME meets and oldest companion after Imoen (though he does turn out to be a murderous and evil little sod). Also he would welcome Xzars death so it pretty much fits in my opinion.
    Post edited by Worg on
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Monty would make sense as a Fighter/Assassin. Sleep lightly...
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    ...taskmaster.
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