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Succeeding at IWD without min/maxing stats


In my own mind's canon, I've always viewed IWD as a sort of prequel to the BGs. For that reason, I try to "balance" out my party members' stats to be more consistent with the ones in BG1, rather than just maximize the most crucial stats. For example, if I have a warrior character with high str and con (i.e.: 18/55 and 17 respectively), I'll look to lower his or her dext (to somewhere between 10 and 15). However, the format of IWD is much different than in the BGs (especially BG1), with waves of endless enemies and dungeon crawling in place of atmospheric exploration and developing story.

So my question is, is it possible to succeed at IWD without min/maxing stats? For anyone else who plays this way, what advice might you have to offer, i.e.: what character classes and strategies do you use?

Comments

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    I've really enjoyed generating parties with the following guidelines:
    - Insane difficulty
    - Tick "No bonus XP for difficulty"
    - Tick "No bonus damage for difficulty"
    - Avoid OP classes or kits (sorcerer and archer are the main ones to avoid IMO)
    - Avoid multiclass and dual class characters
    - Reroll as many times as you like for stats
    - Reroll stats of 91+
    - No adjusting stats once rolled
    - Don't phish for items
    - Don't reload if you fail to scribe a scroll or similar
    - Avoid reloading/don't reload

    Game can become quite strategic under these circumstances. Certainly the caveat of not adjusting stats creates more organic characters and it provides some great opportunities to make up stories for them to explain their more peculiar stats.

    Good luck :)
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    A druid is enough to take you through the entire game, and easily.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Yes , it is totally possible to beat the game with bg-ish characters.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582

    Here is an example of a party that I'm currently considering using:

    A paladin, my party leader:


    A dwarven fighter/cleric:


    A dual-wielding ranger, to be dualed to a cleric at level 3:


    An avenger druid:


    An elven fighter/mage/thief, specialized in short swords and short bows:


    A jester:


  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    All 6 of those characters have 3 or more stats that are providing bonuses ... Try rolling for those without adjusting stats, it'll show you just how rare that is!
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    Wowo said:

    All 6 of those characters have 3 or more stats that are providing bonuses ...

    True, but on the flipside, none of them have more than a single stat that is maxed (some don't have any), neither of the arcane spellcasters have 18 int, neither of the current divine spellcasters have more than 16 wisd, and only one character has a single "dump stat" that's as low as 9.
    Wowo said:

    Try rolling for those without adjusting stats, it'll show you just how rare that is!

    I tried something similar to that already - it did give the characters more of a "BG feel," but they also got their assess kicked on the first level of Dragon's Eye.

    With my next party, I'm trying to find more of a happy medium between efficiency and RPing - characters that are notably strong, but not quite OP'd.

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    You don't need to look like a munchkin in iwdee to be one, it's so simple to remedy the "almost good" scores that you've given your characters via spells and potions like Cats Grace. I realised at some point that if I was going to go for scores like that I might as well go all out with the 18s to avoid the tedious repetition of casting stat buff spells constantly and resting more frequently due to reduced effective spell slots.

    It's a good strategy to increase the challenge of the game by limiting your access to arcane spells but realise that clerics are the most powerful class (and you'll have 2) and Avenger Druids are half an arcane and incredibly powerful as well.

    Good luck with your run :)
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  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064

    I tried something similar to that already - it did give the characters more of a "BG feel," but they also got their assess kicked on the first level of Dragon's Eye.

    If I can take a party of 6 bards through Dragon's Eye, then a party with more diverse talents but all 12 stats should be able to handle it just fine...
    We try not to judge people's relative abilities ...

    Certainly we can recommend that lower stats would be perfectly manageable if appropriate tactics are used though the only point that I wanted to make is that if you start adjusting and rerolling your stats it becomes very arbitrary and there's no real challenge involved. It's too easy to make stats that don't look powergamey but are in fact just as effective as a suite of 18s.

    I particularly like a party that relies on DR rather than AC to tank via a Druid or dwarven defender as AC is just too easy to abuse with the available buffs.

    Anyway, I'll reiterate my recommendation of trying characters without adjusted stats, maybe it'll capture your imagination, both strategically and character story wise, like it did mine.
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  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    I've enjoyed playing IWD with characters whose rolls were "as is" - no adjusting. It actually makes the rolling process much more vivid and different - you don't simply click till you see the higher figure, you constantly monitor each stat. The characters that come as a result feel non min-maxed.
  • AethernautAethernaut Member Posts: 60
    @SharGuidesMyHand

    That's pretty much how I craft my IWD characters.

    Viably useful in their key areas and believable as RP concepts.

    None of the 18 for every stat but 3 for intelligence and charisma shenanigans.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150

    None of the 18 for every stat but 3 for intelligence and charisma shenanigans.

    The only time when I had a character with Charisma equal to 3 was when I used this portrait

    Frankly, no magics or perfume would help. The guy is just rotting.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    God said:

    None of the 18 for every stat but 3 for intelligence and charisma shenanigans.

    The only time when I had a character with Charisma equal to 3 was when I used this portrait

    Frankly, no magics or perfume would help. The guy is just rotting.
    My favourite IWD portrait.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    He went to the frozen North hoping the cold might conservate his wasting flesh...
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,714
    edited September 2016
    I did a no-reload and no-rest-abuse run (sleeping only in inns or on the spots the games encourages you to do so) and was awesome.

    My party IIRC was an Archer, an Inquisidor, a Priest (can't remember the deity), a Bounty Hunter, a Skald and a Berserker.

    Awesome.

    My next run will be: Archer, Undead Hunter, Sorcerer, Shapeshifter, Blade, Cleric/Thief.
  • ArdulArdul Member Posts: 211
    The way I roll for stats in IWD is that I don't redistribute the rolls, but I do re-arrange them. This gives you quite competent characters without being completely maxed. Since mid-range attributes are completely pointless anyway this works for me. Often you will have to choose between either getting one or two 18's and then some non-bonus giving numbers, and lower numbers that do give bonuses - say 15 or 16. With this method you will resemble the rolls of bg2 characters quite easily.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2016
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  • acolyteacolyte Member Posts: 36
    chimaera said:

    Considering that I knew a player who went through IWD with a party of level one gnomes

    What does this mean exactly? It sounds interesting.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    acolyte said:

    chimaera said:

    Considering that I knew a player who went through IWD with a party of level one gnomes

    What does this mean exactly? It sounds interesting.
    Just because you gain experience, doesn't mean you have to hit the level up button. You can remain level 1 through the entire game.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    God said:

    None of the 18 for every stat but 3 for intelligence and charisma shenanigans.

    The only time when I had a character with Charisma equal to 3 was when I used this portrait

    Frankly, no magics or perfume would help. The guy is just rotting.
    I used that portrait on a character that was a cursed fighter.
  • SchmaehgolSchmaehgol Member Posts: 9
    Like Calmar, I play a nostalgic party from my PnP 1st ed. AD&D days, and think of my high school buddies I played with way back then when something comes up in IWD:EE in a role playing sense that reminds me of our tabletop gaming sessions back then (BG1&2 were better in that sense in terms of party dialogue, but IWD lets me align the classes and races better). I keep the rolls as they come (we did 3d6 straight, love it or leave it, originally, then went soft with 4d6 drop the lowest die in later years (mid-80s)). But I do like the kits IWDEE and BG1&2 provide, so I use them to create my "nearly" nostalgic party. No rolls over 17 in my party except for one lucky 18 on the thief's dexterity, and the druid has a 9 strength, the mage an 8 constitution, etc.). We've gotten to the bottom of Dragon's Eye so far with the final boss battle just ahead, with the following group: female paladin, dwarven defender, elven cleric, half-elven druid avenger, elven wild mage, halfling shadowdancer thief.

    It's fun to still be playing D&D after all these years, and I even started a second session with my son using the multiplayer mode, which is more like real D&D from way back when due to the inter-player banter (but he's more of a power gamer, so the stats are not as "pure" as in my single player run: he always complains about my "weak" half of the party slowing him down!).

    Thanks for posting the question, SharGuidesMyHand!
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042
    The only stats I min/max any more are the int scores for mages, wis for clerics, and chr for bards. The game would be far too difficult without access to 9th-level mage spells or 7th-level cleric spells so I make certain they can have those. There really isn't too much benefit to having an 18 dex on rogues as opposed to 17 dex so I don't worry about that too much. Any fighter-type who rolls a 17 or higher is good to go even though the extra carry weight comes in handy from time to time.

    I once created a character in BG whose stats gave him no bonuses or penalties at all--everything was in the 9 to 15 range. He couldn't use composite long bows or the largest weapons (at least until he got items which enhanced his strength) but he performed nicely as a low- to mid-level solo fighter/mage/thief.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited September 2016
    Wowo said:

    I tried something similar to that already - it did give the characters more of a "BG feel," but they also got their assess kicked on the first level of Dragon's Eye.

    If I can take a party of 6 bards through Dragon's Eye, then a party with more diverse talents but all 12 stats should be able to handle it just fine...
    We try not to judge people's relative abilities ...
    It's not a matter of abilities. It's a matter of possibility. The game has enough diverse tactics that you do NOT need to min/max. You can if you want to or you can just roll the dice to see what happens or even purposely gimp characters.

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064

    The only stats I min/max any more are the int scores for mages, wis for clerics, and chr for bards. The game would be far too difficult without access to 9th-level mage spells or 7th-level cleric spells so I make certain they can have those. There really isn't too much benefit to having an 18 dex on rogues as opposed to 17 dex so I don't worry about that too much. Any fighter-type who rolls a 17 or higher is good to go even though the extra carry weight comes in handy from time to time.

    I once created a character in BG whose stats gave him no bonuses or penalties at all--everything was in the 9 to 15 range. He couldn't use composite long bows or the largest weapons (at least until he got items which enhanced his strength) but he performed nicely as a low- to mid-level solo fighter/mage/thief.

    Bards need Int for casting like Mages.

    Mages can cast 9th level spells with any intelligence, just need to temporarily boost intelligence to 18 to scribe the scrolls.

    Clerics can cast 7th level spells with any wisdom score.
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    God said:

    None of the 18 for every stat but 3 for intelligence and charisma shenanigans.

    The only time when I had a character with Charisma equal to 3 was when I used this portrait

    Frankly, no magics or perfume would help. The guy is just rotting.
    I used that character as a blackguard. Actually, it is in the game I am in now, where I have a character of all the sides of a LARP character. This is the ancestor that, for a while, sometimes posessed him. (The rest are a swashbuckler/fighter, a blade, and a shapeshifter).

    Party
    Human Swash/FTR NG
    17
    18
    16
    12
    8
    13
    ***Longsword
    ***Shortsword
    ***2wf


    Human Blade N
    10
    18
    16
    16
    8
    17
    ***2wf
    *Bastard sword
    *Dagger

    Human Shapeshifter N
    12
    16
    16
    8
    17
    15
    *Scimitar
    *Dagger
    *Sword and shield

    Human Blackguard NE
    18/77
    16
    17
    10
    10
    14
    **Longsword
    **Sword and shield
    **Two handed sword
    **Two handed style
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