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RP reasons to kill Imoen SPOILER WARNING

At the end of ToB the Solar let you chose if to take all the essence and become a God or give your share of it to Melissan and have her and the whole essence destroyed. Fine, but there is a problem, at least 2 other people have some part of the essence. The five and the minor bhalspawns are dead, but Imoen and Sarewok are still alive.
She has less essence than you, but she has some, and Sarewok, even if he has lost his original share at the end of BG1, has the very little part that you or Imoen have given to him in order to have him resurrected.

So if you want to really RP ToB you have to be sure that both die in some battle or kill them yourself.
The original developers seem to have completely ignored the thing, and the new ones are not allowed to change the original content, so can not fix the problem, but RP wise imo is not possible to conclude the game without both of them dead. Or maybe is possible for the new developers to insert some dialogue where the 2 accept to give their part of essence to the solar, I don't know exactly the legal terms of the licence. But as now Imoen tells that she would not like to be at your place, but never tells that she is accepting to give her essence to the Solar.

In RL I never killed the 2, and for me this is only one of the many things that has no sense in the saga and that I gladly ignore, also when I am RP.

What do you think about it?

Comments

  • Sarevok's portion is so insignificant that it doesn't matter.

  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    I usually just pretend that she died in Spellhold and CTRL-Y her.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,431
    edited September 2016
    I don't see any problems with it. If you choose to become a god you have the power to revoke Sarevok's share of the Bhaal essence anytime you wish. Afair, Imoen voluntarily surrenders her share of the essence to you when the Solar asks her about it.
    gorgonzolasemiticgoddess
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    @GandalfPortraitGuy The Solar states clearly that ALL the essence must be gathered and Mel was very careful to have all the bhalspawns killed, 99.999999999999999 is not 100.

    @dib that is EVIL! :smiley:
    But for who like to play with Imoen the RP problem remains. Your solution, if used to solve a RP problem, and not because you don't like her or don't have a place for her in the party, is just as weird as mine.
    monico
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    @argent77 I did not remember that Imoen voluntarily surrenders her share of the essence to you when the Solar asks her about it. That solve her problem.
    About Sarewok may be you can revoke his share, but as his being alive depends on it it will cause his death, and then his ending has no sense, no more future for him after the destruction of the ToB.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,431
    This is the conversation between the Solar and Imoen:
    Solar: Only one other spawn of the dead god remains... the sibling who fought at your side. Her portion of the essence is not large, but she must make a choice.
    Imoen: You mean me, don't you? You're talking about the part of me that's... the taint. The powers I've developed.
    Solar: Do you intend to keep that essence, god-child? Or will you surrender it to your elder sibling?
    Imoen: If I could have gotten rid of it voluntarily, I would have done it a long time ago. *shudder* Take it... I don't want it. I never wanted it.
    Solar: As you wish, Imoen, so it is done. The only decision that remains, then, belongs to your sibling.

    I'd say that Sarevok is a special case. His original essence returned to the source at the end of BG1. The small portion from you (or Imoen) is only used to keep him alive. He doesn't have any control over it, so there should be no way for him to misuse it.

    Even the Solar doesn't seem to be concerned by the fact that only "The vast majority of the soul essences of the children of Bhaal" has been collected. There is also Viekang (and maybe also the Bhaalspawn critters near the Fire Giant Temple, in case you missed them or let them escape) who might still be alive.
    gorgonzolaDaevelonGodJuliusBorisov
  • IakusIakus Member Posts: 36
    Was it Bhaalspawn essence of a piece of a divine soul that's needed? I was never really clear on that, as the two seem to be separate things.
    gorgonzola
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    According to Sarevok, after his resurrection, he was a Bhaalspawn only by history and memory; he no longer has any Bhaalspawn essence. He explains this in a dialogue at the start of the game.

    The Solar confirms this by asking Imoen about her essence, but not asking Sarevok. Nor is there any option for you to ask him; he has no essence left to hand over.
    gorgonzolaJuliusBorisovmonico
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    But when you have to resurrect him at the beginning of ToB, you can not give to him a piece of a generic soul of an NPC, it has to be yours od Imoen's, because You and she are Bhaalspawns.
    I don't know if the Bhaal essence and the divine soul are the same, but I suppose that are so. Because if you chose to give away your essence you loose also the chance of immortality, you become a regolar mortal. So I assume that the divine soul and the essence are deeply related, one can not exist without the other.

    When you find Sarewok he no longer has any Bhaalspawn essence, but then a little part of it is given to him, and that little part is what keeps him alive.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    argent77 said:

    There is also Viekang (and maybe also the Bhaalspawn critters near the Fire Giant Temple, in case you missed them or let them escape) who might still be alive.

    That's right. We all know what that means.

    But wait... there's still somebody who would dispute your claim to the Throne of Bhaal!



    :smirk:
    gorgonzolaRavenslightJuliusBorisov
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    i always assumed it was such a small piece it did not matter in the end.
    gorgonzola
  • IakusIakus Member Posts: 36

    But when you have to resurrect him at the beginning of ToB, you can not give to him a piece of a generic soul of an NPC, it has to be yours od Imoen's, because You and she are Bhaalspawns.
    I don't know if the Bhaal essence and the divine soul are the same, but I suppose that are so. Because if you chose to give away your essence you loose also the chance of immortality, you become a regolar mortal. So I assume that the divine soul and the essence are deeply related, one can not exist without the other.

    When you find Sarewok he no longer has any Bhaalspawn essence, but then a little part of it is given to him, and that little part is what keeps him alive.

    You are all Bhaalspawn, but from a certain perspective, you are all siblings as well. Perhaps it's the familial connection that is important?

    I just keep coming back to how Charname can become the Slayer while lacking a soul if the Bhaalspawn essence is the same as the soul. Or even how you can live a normal life is the essence (and your soul) are removed from you?
    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    @Iakus good points.

    but if we look at the endings we see:
    Your mortal essence fades away as you embrace your divinity.

    Your mortal essence crumbles as you embrace your fate, and take the legacy of
    Bhaal as your own.

    Your divine essence slowly fades, and for a moment you feel empty,
    incomplete. It is frightening, but soon yields to a new sensation, one of hope.
    With your closest companions at your side, you are free to live out your mortal life.

    Is clearly stated that you don't have only a divine essence, the one that Mel wants to collect, but also a mortal one, and this seems to me a hint that the essence is deeply related to the soul.
    But when your soul is stolen the taint is still active, and that suggests that they are different things.
    Also in the good godly ending you give away the Bhaal essence, but still you become a God, where you draw your godly power from, as you have given away both the godly essence and the mortal one?

    I am confused about that, and I lack the knowledge of what soul, essence and taint are in a FR context. Knowledge that is fundamental to understand such metaphysical problems,
    My guess, and I can be completely wrong, is that who wrote the plot gave to it only a resemblance of logic, good enough to RP the game, if you don't want to analyze the whole thing in depth. Without giving enough in game clues to analyze in depth the whole thing. And we can not refer to RL to deal with it, RL where in different cultures the word soul have different meanings.
    I hope that someone who has knowledge in the FR lore, maybe someone involved in the writing of the plot ( @David_Gaider ) can enlighten me about it.
  • ArthasArthas Member Posts: 1,091
    You didn't give sarevok your essence. You used part of your power to resurrect him. Sarevok's body was beyond expiration date and no mortal means could have made him alive again.

    You\Solar summon his soul into the plane
    He asks you to sacrifice your essence to resurrect him
    The catch is that he doesn't get your essence, you just make him alive and give part of your memories (as explained if you make Imoen resurrect him)

    Is it clear?
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,864
    I will say that at this point I agree with you, even if I am the OP :smiley:
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