Ranger/Druid

Raduziel

Is there any way (a mod, a cheat, whatever) that allows this Multiclass (or even Dual)?

Because:

1) Player Handbook allows it

2) The Complete Ranger's Handbook allows it

3) The Complete Druid's Handbook allows it

4) Would embrace the two nicest strongholds quests IMHO

5) Makes sense in a RP perspective

6) Isn't a powerhorse-gamebreaking-combinantion

So... is there a way? If not, is there a way to find a way or it's like divide by zero?

Thanks!

ThacoBell

Well there is one way with a little restraint on the players part. Ranger/Cleric used to make ALL Druid spells available. This was patched out, but enough people saw it as a feature rather than a bug, so they made it very easily editable.
Quoting from another thread, "That said as Musigny pointed out if you go to the baldur.ini file in your documents folder and look up the "Cleric Ranger Spells" line (its near the bottom of the file) you can change the value there from 1 to 0. That should let you get all the spells again."
As for weapon proficiencies, Tweaks Anthology has a component to reduce Cleric multiclass restrictions. This will unlock all Fighter weapon proficiencies, so to make it work perfectly you will need to limit yourself to only Druid spells and Druid proficiencies. The only ability this doesn't account for is shapeshifting. Not too bad considering shapeshifting is not much use to a fighter multiclass anyway.

Raduziel

The point is, I don't want a Ranger/Cleric, but a Ranger/Druid. For RP reasons, for equipment reasons and for stronghold reasons

But thanks, mate!

ThacoBell

@Raduziel Yeah, its definitely not a perfect solution, but worst case its pretty darn close.

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lroumen

You could edit the ranger spell tables to learn as many spells as a druid then multi is not needed.
I think they just get all druid specific spells even beyond level 3.
Then change druid items to allow usage by rangers. And install multiple strongholds (or change druid stronghold criteria only) for gameplay reasons.

Raduziel

@lroumen

I'm just a dumb player

ThacoBell

You can use tweaks anthology to remove class requirements for strongholds, and just turn down all of them but the druid one.

lroumen

@Raduziel once everybody was a dumb player.
The type of question you currently have are the ones I had in the 90s and zeroes and they got me very enthusiastic in learning how to create mods of my own.
Maybe something to think about

(Off topic. I wanted a bard with all thieving skills so after a year or so i managed to create a mod that allowed me to change from the bard class to the thief class and back again at will).

Skatan

I'm playing a ranger now (a stalker) whom I plan to edit due to RP reasons by adding more druidic spells (and probably ten other things as well). Like you I don't want to make a R/C since it doesn't match my vision of the character. I too would have wanted to dual into a druid or maybe go druid/ranger MC, but figured the easiest way for me (with my limited modding knowledge) is to eekeeper the spell slots for a straight stalker to match that of a F/D's at the same exp level. But I won't stick to scimitar's though, since it's too much Drizzt, so I'm gonna keep the stalker's proficiences (or mod the crap out of that as well, we'll see).

gorgonzola

thedamages said:

Well there is one way with a little restraint on the players part. Ranger/Cleric used to make ALL Druid spells available....................
As for weapon proficiencies, Tweaks Anthology has a component to reduce Cleric multiclass restrictions................. The only ability this doesn't account for is shapeshifting. Not too bad considering shapeshifting is not much use to a fighter multiclass anyway.

thedamages said:

@Raduziel Yeah, its definitely not a perfect solution, but worst case its pretty darn close.

Let me disagree.
As a R/C you get more APR and specialization, more HP.
About weapon proficiency and use a proper D/C should be able to use ONLY the weapons that both classes allow, as druid's and cleric's restrictions are of an unique kind, they prevail on what an other class allow.
A thief is prevented from long bows, being also fighter can use them and put pips in them. A cleric or druid even if is also fighter can never use a bow.
So a proper cleric druid, as cleric and druid are intended in this game, allowing an illegal multi but without making them other way different than vanilla druids and clerics, should be able to equip only staves, clubs and slings. About armor is different, being also cleric armors restricted to druid should be allowed.
A R/C allowed to cast all druid spells is much more powerful than a C/D, not pretty darn close.
Better APR, HP and thac0, FoA, Crom, loosing only the elemental princes.

EDIT and 3 pips in DW, 2 of them for free, instead of one.

gorgonzola

@Skatan your solution imo can be a credible C/D, but only if you find a way to give to him 1/2 XP, to simulate the grow rate of a multi,nerf his thac0, apr and hp and use only the weapons allowed by both classes. As you plan it is maybe even powerful than the R/C with all the druidic spells enabled. Loose almost nothing from him and gain XP at double rate, being a (kitted) single class.

Skatan

gorgonzola said:

@Skatan your solution imo can be a credible C/D, but only if you find a way to give to him 1/2 XP, to simulate the grow rate of a multi,nerf his thac0, apr and hp and use only the weapons allowed by both classes. As you plan it is maybe even powerful than the R/C with all the druidic spells enabled. Loose almost nothing from him and gain XP at double rate, being a (kitted) single class.

I am ofc aware and I don't care. There's plenty of legit powergaming characters that are far more OP than any SC ranger/druid mix will ever be (ie anything with kensai/berzerker dualed or just a plain F/M or sorc).

gorgonzola

Raduziel said:

Is there any way (a mod, a cheat, whatever) that allows this Multiclass (or even Dual)?

Because:

1) Player Handbook allows it

2) The Complete Ranger's Handbook allows it

3) The Complete Druid's Handbook allows it

4) Would embrace the two nicest strongholds quests IMHO

5) Makes sense in a RP perspective

6) Isn't a powerhorse-gamebreaking-combinantion

Make a cleric or a druid, I would say a cleric, not kitted.
Add with EEkeeper all the spells of the other divine school, very easy to do even without specific knowledge.
Use only the weapons allowed by both the classes.
Use the multiple strongholds component of some mod and take only the druid and cleric ones.
RP him as a C/D.

is not a perfect way, he will not shapeshift (but starting from druid you inherit armor and shield restrictions that a multi C/D should not have, and is better to loose shapeshift than being limited in armour and shield).
And you will use all the XP in a single class, but this is compensated by weapon self given restrictions, so not gamebreaking.

Imo is the easiest way to respect all of your conditions, especially no 6 in your list.

Raduziel

@gorgonzola The only problem is that a want a Ranger/Druid, not a Cleric/Druid =P

karnor00

I feel I should point out that the 2nd edition players handbook doesn't allow ranger/druid.

Although druid/mage and fighter/mage/druid are permitted.

gorgonzola

You are correct. than all I told in my previous 3 posts is completely OT, I apologize
I should read better tread titles

Raduziel

karnor00 said:

I feel I should point out that the 2nd edition players handbook doesn't allow ranger/druid.

Although druid/mage and fighter/mage/druid are permitted.

True, PHB doesn't put Ranger/Druid as a valid combination (just double checked), but TCDH and TCRH allows it both.

lroumen

What you want is an enjoyable experience. Don't let the hand books get in your way.

PK2748

karnor00 said:

I feel I should point out that the 2nd edition players handbook doesn't allow ranger/druid.

Although druid/mage and fighter/mage/druid are permitted.

Actually if you read the Half Elf entry in the second edition player's handbook it quite clearly permits the Ranger/Druid. The asterisk denoting Druid for Cleric substitutions is missing on the chart but I consider the fully typed out and crystal clear language in the race entry controlling. Especially when later supplements support it in class handbooks

ThacoBell

gorgonzola said:

thedamages said:

Well there is one way with a little restraint on the players part. Ranger/Cleric used to make ALL Druid spells available....................
As for weapon proficiencies, Tweaks Anthology has a component to reduce Cleric multiclass restrictions................. The only ability this doesn't account for is shapeshifting. Not too bad considering shapeshifting is not much use to a fighter multiclass anyway.

thedamages said:

@Raduziel Yeah, its definitely not a perfect solution, but worst case its pretty darn close.

Let me disagree.
As a R/C you get more APR and specialization, more HP.
About weapon proficiency and use a proper D/C should be able to use ONLY the weapons that both classes allow, as druid's and cleric's restrictions are of an unique kind, they prevail on what an other class allow.
A thief is prevented from long bows, being also fighter can use them and put pips in them. A cleric or druid even if is also fighter can never use a bow.
So a proper cleric druid, as cleric and druid are intended in this game, allowing an illegal multi but without making them other way different than vanilla druids and clerics, should be able to equip only staves, clubs and slings. About armor is different, being also cleric armors restricted to druid should be allowed.
A R/C allowed to cast all druid spells is much more powerful than a C/D, not pretty darn close.
Better APR, HP and thac0, FoA, Crom, loosing only the elemental princes.

EDIT and 3 pips in DW, 2 of them for free, instead of one.

My point to that was yes it gives you a lot more, but the op can easily restrict himself to only druid allowed armors, weapons, and spells. Also, I don't see how cleric vs druid would grant more thaco, as the multiclass would follow the ranger thaco and apr table anyway. Its not perfect, true, I suggested this because I don't know of any perfect solutions, they all fall a little short in different ways. In the lack of true options, I think is a decent compromise.

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Raduziel

I'll finish my current SoD run and try your mod, @subtledoctor . Thank you very much and amazing work

I won't try it now because I'm afraid it will mess my current save.

gorgonzola

thedamages said:

My point to that was yes it gives you a lot more, but the op can easily restrict himself to only druid allowed armors, weapons, and spells. Also, I don't see how cleric vs druid would grant more thaco, as the multiclass would follow the ranger thaco and apr table anyway..

If you read the posts below the one you quoted, you see

Raduziel said:

@gorgonzola The only problem is that a want a Ranger/Druid, not a Cleric/Druid =P

and

gorgonzola said:

You are correct. than all I told in my previous 3 posts is completely OT, I apologize
I should read better tread titles

I did misread R/D as C/D, and that explain why I was talking of double weapon limitations that should stack and "illegal" ranger thac0 and apr, as a C/D should not have them .
But I was the only one talking of C/D, and only because I misread the tread title

ThacoBell

Can I just say that I love how much it is possible to mess with class combinations to do ridiculous things?

gorgonzola

Just seeing how my actual experiment with Nalia, turned in a legal Kensage, respecting her stats total and minmaxing her only to make the dual possible, make her A+++ from A or A- that she was, I completely agree.
Kitted multi, dual with a kit in the second class, illegal combinations of classes, shorty saves with dual.
The more you have knowledge about how to do the more the things can get crazy.
Take a look to Ziraen's Hidden Kits mod
http://www.shsforums.net/forum/548-hidden-kits/
And you see what a modder can do...
And he created the mod with some balance idea in mind, not to be completely gamebreaking...

Skatan

subtledoctor said:

Did everyone miss the part where an existing mod already has this actual thing actually working? Here's how it works after you install the mod (using install option #2):
- Start to create a new character
- In the class & kit menus, choose "ranger/priest" and then "ranger/druid"
- Play the game... you are a ranger/druid

In other words, exactly how you would choose any other class/kit combination. No need for fudging or simulating or compromising.

No, not everyone. But I am ~10-15 hours into my gameplay and won't restart now.

marcos

@subtledoctor, I respect your work, and I'm wondering if there's a way to do this without a full-scale overhaul. If there were, how would you begin? Do you mod the cleric/ranger (which is what I think you're doing), or do you somehow create a new d/r multiclass?

@Raduziel, one really easy thing to do is change the weapons proficiencies and weapons availabilities of the cleric/ranger to those of the druid. It's easy to do because in both the .2da files and in the .itm files there is a separate entry for cleric_ranger.