Coldhearth (Spoiler)

Necromanx2

OK. What happened? As a freshly minted lich Coldhearth used to have no spells. Now he comes fully loaded. On top of that. Each time I kill him he comes back fully loaded with spells, spawns right next to me and always knows where I am at even when I haste far out of sight and close doors between us. On top of that, if I run someone to grab his phalactery and destroy it, it says he screams in rage as his soul dies, yet he is still running around fully loaded with spells. How the heck are 9th and 10th level characters suppose to have two fights with a fully loaded lich (you need to win one to get his key) who spams AOE spells that hold and knock you out when they don't just kill you AND deal with the fire elementals and skeletal warrior that spawn after I have already killed everything?

This fight has become pretty much impossible to win.

I don't have any difficulty mods on, only Eldritch Magic and Palemaster for Sorcerers.

Would love to know the secret to this?

brunardo

@Necromanx2 did you use the secret revealed?

Necromanx2

What is that?

Necromanx2

Now that I think about it. Wasn't the dwarf at the entrance suppose to give me some gem with some charges? Ugh!! I ended up using two scrolls of anti-magic to finish the battle. It was a supreme pain to win.

Lilura

Hah! I freaking loved that dungeon and its encounter design. Love fighting liches - especially when they actually have a proper phylactery that you need to destroy first.

At times Siege of Dragonspear competes well with the best of the IE RPGs: the Dwarves of Dumathoin quest is one example of that.

Incidentally, I just got done fighting an Alhoon in Shrouded Sun, a NWN2 module. An Alhoon is an "illthilich", in case you don't know. The encounter almost reduced me to tears due to its brutal difficulty. You can read about it here. Just search the post for the word "alhoon".

sibakruom

Necromanx2 said:

Now that I think about it. Wasn't the dwarf at the entrance suppose to give me some gem with some charges?

That's the aforementioned Secret Revealed. Did you go back to said dwarf after witnessing Coldhearth's transformation and tell him about it? He should give you the Secret Revelaed at that point. If he didn't then that's a bug.

Edit: I think you need to convince the dwarf that you're telling the truth as well. Either through a Charisma check or by collecting some evidence. The evidence is located on the same level as the dwarf, inside the locked chest near where you encountered the giant (you should have found the key to the chest on the lower level).

Tresset

Necromanx2 said:

Edit: I think you need to convince the dwarf that you're telling the truth as well. Either through a Charisma check or by collecting some evidence. The evidence is located on the same level as the dwarf, inside the locked chest near where you encountered the giant (you should have found the key to the chest on the lower level).

If you rescued the giant earlier that will also convince them.

UnderstandMouseMagic

I found it impossible as well, tried many times.
But then just ran like buggery to get the phylactery, destroyed it ultra quick and ended up winning without really knowing why or how.
Most dissapointing.

It's a good fight on one level, on the other hand a real head to head was too hard so ended up "cheesing" it when the novelty of trying had worn off.

As for the special gem, since when does anybody use something that useful immediately on their first run through?
It does against every instinct that dictates you must, must, must hang on to it unused for the next encounter that might be even more difficult.............and then ultimately end the game with it still in the inventury.

Daevelon

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

I found it impossible as well, tried many times.
But then just ran like buggery to get the phylactery, destroyed it ultra quick and ended up winning without really knowing why or how.
Most dissapointing.

It's a good fight on one level, on the other hand a real head to head was too hard so ended up "cheesing" it when the novelty of trying had worn off.

As for the special gem, since when does anybody use something that useful immediately on their first run through?
It does against every instinct that dictates you must, must, must hang on to it unused for the next encounter that might be even more difficult.............and then ultimately end the game with it still in the inventury.

Actually there is another lich, connected with the Spectacles of Spectacle. This one become a piece of cake too with the gem

Mush_Mush

I love that the title of this thread is a spoiler followed by a spoiler warning

Tresset

@Mush_Mush Good point. I fixed it.

Necromanx2

Sorry about the title.

When I wrote this I was seething over how hard the battle was. Totally didn't notice the go back to talk thing and ended up using my two anti-magic scrolls to get through after I wrote the thread. I wish I would have paid better attention.

ThacoBell

Yeah, this series tends to punish you for not paying attention.

sibakruom

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

As for the special gem, since when does anybody use something that useful immediately on their first run through?
It does against every instinct that dictates you must, must, must hang on to it unused for the next encounter that might be even more difficult.............and then ultimately end the game with it still in the inventury.

I freely admit I'm this kind of hoarder myself but in this case it never even crossed my mind. While the Secret Revealed is indeed powerful and comes with limited charges, something that should scream "Hoard!", it's also narrow in its application and you're given it specifically to complete a sidequest. As such I assumed it wouldn't be usable anywhere else in the game, and finding out that it could indeed be used at another point later on actually came as a surprise.

Gallowglass

The Secret Revealed is a well-calculated item. You use it at least once (but often need it twice) against Coldhearth, then you use it again (once) against the lich summoned by the Spectacles of Spectacle, and that exhausts its three charges ... but that's fine, because there's nothing else in the game for which it is useful. (But don't waste any of its charge, else you'll be left fighting an angry lich the hard way ... which is not impossible, but is definitely not easy at SoD levels!)

Arunsun

Gallowglass said:

The Secret Revealed is a well-calculated item. You use it at least once (but often need it twice) against Coldhearth, then you use it again (once) against the lich summoned by the Spectacles of Spectacle, and that exhausts its three charges ... but that's fine, because there's nothing else in the game for which it is useful. (But don't waste any of its charge, else you'll be left fighting an angry lich the hard way ... which is not impossible, but is definitely not easy at SoD levels!)

First time I fought Coldhearth I did it without the Secret Revealed (did not know it exist, I saw a lich and decided to fight it because it's evil). It took about 20 reloads and 10 "what's wrong with the devs to make such a hard encounter, I'm level 8"

batoor

First lich in the BG saga I could actually help and leave in peace^^

Can't undo that fine work, so I was pleased. Regardless of the morbidity and alignment of necromancy, it's damn nice arcane workmanship imo.

Daevelon

batoor said:

First lich in the BG saga I could actually help and leave in peace^^

Actually, there is Vongoethe in Throne of Bhaal too.

SirBatince

He uses weaker spells depending on your game difficulty (won't go past skulltrap on easy)

perhaps you remember him that way?

Arunsun

batoor said:

First lich in the BG saga I could actually help and leave in peace^^

Can't undo that fine work, so I was pleased. Regardless of the morbidity and alignment of necromancy, it's damn nice arcane workmanship imo.

Actually there are some good liches, called Archliches (and Baelnorn if they are elven). This one's not good but Necromancy is not necessarily Evil

Tresset

One of my own made up characters is an elven Archlich.