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This is why BG2 water (2.0) is better than BG1 water (1.3).

TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
edited November 2016 in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
I recall that some of the rage against the new UI in 2.0 was due to the way the water now looks in BG1. The developers decided to use the BG2 water in both games instead of letting BG1 keep its BG1 water. Many people did not like this for some reason or other. Well, I took some screenshots that I hope will change some hearts and minds on this matter. It may be a bit late, but this is why BG2 water is vastly superior to BG1 water.

This is what BG1 water looks like. It truly looks like crap to me.



Now BEHOLD! The same scene with BG2 water!



Now I seriously ask: Who among you can say that this scene looks better with BG1 water? Who among you can still say that BG2 water is not better?

Comments

  • jascmmjascmm Member Posts: 27
    For me the new water is an improvement.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I couldn't care less either way. In both cases I can instantly recognise it as water and I can see where it begins and ends, and that's good enough for me.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    The first example looks better to me in every way.

    From the suggestion of waves to the clarity/detail of the terrain.

    Perhaps it comes down to opinion?
    So rather than use the words "better", "improved" it would be more honest to say "changed in view of how I/we see/think" .

  • GallengerGallenger Member Posts: 400
    My only criticism seems to be that the brightness level in the second screenshot is slightly lower so it doesn't let the bg2 water show that it does actually have some texture to it. But yes, both a certainly an improvement over *actual* bg1 water - which is green for most people now unless you've got a handy dandy win 98 PC laying around.
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited November 2016
    The BG2 water is higher resolution and has less visual flaws. So it is superior but personal taste still plays a role for each person. I like the BG 2 water because it has less flaws and looks way more clear. The ponds and rivers look much more clean and I think the water looks more like actual water. The BG1 water was very pixelated and just looked bad to me. Even when I was a young teen the first eyesore that I noticed was those fountains in candlekeep. They just looked like pixelated blobs wth ailiasing problems on the edges.

    One thing is for sure, the game budget and tech used to improve the game engine between BG1 and BG2 had a very noticable improvement to the infinity engine in almost every way.
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    I don't believe any body ever complained about this. You are completely right but there is no opposition.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    @UnderstandMouseMagic have you looked at the ship, especially the part that is under the water? I see absolutely no "clarity/detail" here in the first screenshot. If you look closely, or just plain look, it looks like crap.

    If you actually view the screenshots at their full size by clicking on them, you will see that the water in the second screenshot looks much smoother and much more real.
    SirBatince said:

    I don't believe any body ever complained about this. You are completely right but there is no opposition.

    @SirBatince Believe me, I was around when 2.0 was first released to the public. There were quite a few people who complained about it. Whether they would still complain I do not know, but there at the very least certainly WAS opposition to this at some point. I am not going to name names or post links to quotes because I have better things to do with my time.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    @Tresset

    Yes I did look closely and I did zoom in.
    Not sure why you are finding it so hard to accept that some people may prefer the first picture?

    The sea never looks smooth, never, so for me smoother looks more unrealistic.
    Have you considered that representing the sea, because of restrictions, needs a stylised approach in order to portray it's roughness?
    Every single day we are presented with stylised images, because true to life rendering/art is only possible with photographs.
    Consequently we have a learnt "vocabulary" of interpretating images.

    There have been many, many studies about this trying to understand why CGI is being rejected as unrealistic. And the way viewers still prefer modeling.
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    Does 2.0 bring some major character creation screen overhaul? More specifically changes to the portrait browsing experience? Currently it's atrocious. Old one was better and I haven't seen much opposition to that opinion either.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    Ahem.

    Multi-portrait mod.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    UnderstandMouseMagic said:

    Not sure why you are finding it so hard to accept that some people may prefer the first picture?

    If you still can't see the issue with the first picture after what has already been said then I don't think I can help you. To each their own I guess...
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    One more time maybe... Try considering that hideous speckling all over the hull of the ship. It doesn't look anything close to believable! It looks more to me like a graphical glitch (which it probably is). BG2 water fixes it. The BG2 water is not textured with tiny pock marks like some sort of lame stitching pattern on upholstery. Sure it may not have the rough appearance of the sea, but at least the crystal clear look is miles ahead of the alternative. You also can actually see the textures UNDER the BG2 water much better, unlike those under the BG1 water which are obscured by the texture of the water itself... Should water itself have an UNMOVING texture? I think not... Waves and things would be welcome, if that really were what we were seeing in BG1 water. Instead I think what we see and interpret as a rough sea is just a badly textured water graphic.
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    BG2 water look like fog to me.
    Speaking of visual effects, I really miss original BG1's fireball effect, BLAST!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    BillyYank said:

    Ahem.

    Multi-portrait mod.

    That good sir should just be integrated in the game, even better than the old portrait navigation. Amazing job.
  • YelocessejYelocessej Member Posts: 182
    Is there any way to turn the water effects off? After the update, my circa 2010 iMac CHUGS on framerates whenever a lot of water is on screen (like in the pics above). Something ain't kosher with the water...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • YelocessejYelocessej Member Posts: 182
    JonSnowIsAlive said:

    Yelocessej said:

    Something ain't kosher with the water...

    Something ain't kosher with Apple either,
    But that's a matter we should discuss later,
    Should you wish in time to reconsider.
    Before this becomes yet another bother,
    I'll leave and let you think it over.

    Quote attributed to William Shakespear when asked whether he preferred Mac over Windows... who would have thought?! :)
    Turnips
  • brusbrus Member Posts: 944
    How to find water asset in Near infinity?
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,497
    Water assets are simple tilesets (for the "Sunken Ship" map it's WTWAVE.TIS). But they shouldn't cause performance issues by themselves. It's more likely the blending effect used by the game engine which causes some performance issues.

    @Yelocessej You could try out the following console commands:
    C:SetWaterAlpha(0)orC:SetWaterAlpha(255)
    It sets water to fully opaque or transparent. Maybe it solves the performance issue (somewhat).
  • YelocessejYelocessej Member Posts: 182
    @argent77 THANK YOU! I'll give it a shot here in a little bit...
  • YelocessejYelocessej Member Posts: 182
    argent77 said:

    Water assets are simple tilesets (for the "Sunken Ship" map it's WTWAVE.TIS). But they shouldn't cause performance issues by themselves. It's more likely the blending effect used by the game engine which causes some performance issues.

    @Yelocessej You could try out the following console commands:
    C:SetWaterAlpha(0)orC:SetWaterAlpha(255)
    It sets water to fully opaque or transparent. Maybe it solves the performance issue (somewhat).

    Thanks for the suggestion. I tried both of those settings, and while they did change the appearance of the water, my framerates were still lagging whenever a lot of water was on screen. Something else is going on there. This never happened before 2.0 update. I don't think it's the BG2 style water itself: I used to play the original BG2 on this Mac all the time.

    The slow frames aren't a deal breaker. The game doesn't crash (like it does on my first gen iPad). And it's not like I don't have other machines to play on (Windows). I just happen to love my old iMac.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    If you're talking about the shipwreck map, then (so far as I can tell) the framerate problem is caused by sound rather than graphics.

    Whenever I'm at a coastline and the sea sounds (gulls and crashing waves, etc.) are trying to play, my machine (an old Windows box, not a Mac) slows right down, but if I move far enough inland (on the same map) that the sea sounds stop trying to play, then normal framerate is restored. However, maps with a lot of water which isn't sea (e.g. the big rivers on the Wyrm's Crossing and Ankheg Farm maps) don't have this issue, which is why I think it's the sea sounds (rather than the amount of visible water) which is causing the issue.
  • YelocessejYelocessej Member Posts: 182
    @Gallowglass Actually, it's any area with a lot of water: Gnoll Fort bridge, bottom level of Nashkel Mines, etc etc
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @Yelocessej - then that's probably a different problem from the one which I'm seeing, even though it has a similar effect in some locations.
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