How to wipe out sewers beneath the Temple district?

Cvijeta

I'm level 13 skald. Have Jan, Aerie, Minsc, Anomen and Jaheira in the party. Anyone got an advice?

Lord_Tansheron

First, find a portal to the Nine Hells, and a vat of sulfuric acid. Then dunk Anomen into the acid, and punt the vat through the portal.

Next, go to the sewers and kill everything. Make sure you know who to kill first on the bandits, casters need to be taken out quickly. If your CHARNAME is lvl 13, you'll probably do fine. The rest of the sewers are fairly trivial enemies, but there is a nasty beholder ambush in the south, so be prepared for that.

Tenrecc

Any fight in particular? Just "beneath the sewers" isn't very specific, the only moderately challenging fight there is the ambushers, unless you mean a certain lair I don't want to ruin the detals of, but yeah... could you be a little more specific as to what fight you want help with?

Gallowglass

Ignore @Lord_Tansheron and keep Anomen. He's very useful, even though his banter can be initially aggravating (until he completes his personal quest and becomes nicer).

In the sewers, don't kill Keldorn (near the top-left corner of the sewers), nor Roger the Fence (near the mid-southern corner), because they're both relevant to quests. Kill everything else.

The battle at the mid-northern corner of the sewers can be surprisingly tough, because a couple of the bandit gang are pretty competent, so buff up before tackling those guys.

The battle in the centre of the sewers isn't generally too difficult, but it'll probably be your first encounter with a rakshasa. It's important to realise that you need enchanted (i.e. +N) weapons to tackle him ... but by now, you should have some suitable weapons.

The rest of the sewers contains only low-level random enemies, except that the south-west corner can contain higher-level enemies (exactly what you might face depends upon your character level).

Francois

The group of bandits is not too difficult. Cast a mix of incapacitating spells like chaos, emotion, web and cloudkills. Retreat and let them come looking for you so you divide their group and kill them more easily. Use traps also if you can.

Gallowglass

I don't recommend using spells like Chaos/Confusion/Horror in the bandit battle. If one of the enemy wanders off (in confusion/panic/etc) towards the centre, then it's possible accidentally to trigger the rakshasa battle whilst you're still in the middle of the bandit battle, which is a darn nuisance. But Web and Emotion (and others which don't cause random wandering) are obviously good.

Skatan

The so called bandit battle can be done very early if you don't mind meta-gaming; just do the classic stepwise approach until you just can see the first enemy. Step back and fire off something AoE, like cloud spells etc. Retreat and wait. Sometimes they come after you, but not always. A level 13 skald prolly has good firepower for damage-per-level spells, so use that to your advantage. Either that or launch the classic combination of greater malison + several web/horror/emotion/whatever. Even if you don't get them all, you will get most.

gorgonzola

I find that the bandits are the most difficult ones, so I suggest to first clear the rest of the area and then deal with the bandits, so you have more room to impose your tactic over them.
And I had used successfully completely different tactics.
some hints: with the area cleared a thief (Jan) can almost win alone the battle, luring them and backstabbing them multiple times, the area is ideal for it, if the thief is hasted or wears boots of speed even better, backstab and run, as you turn a corner hide again and repeat.
A couple of bandits use ranged weapons, shield of reflection (from adv. mart) is really useful against them.
As you have Jaheira an insect spell is very useful, if she has the level to cast it, their casters are dangerous and well protected.

RelSundan

In situations like this when you meet enemies at the far end of your view you can simply spam them with AoE spells. I recommend Web, Greater Malison (To make them get stuck more often), Chaos/Confusion, Cloudkill, Icestorm. When that is done, set your mages to throw in Fireballs/Skulltraps and other AoE damage spells. Cheesy I know, but that is how you beat tougher enemies early on.

Contrary to "situations like this" would be when you have to enter a building or take on a fight with small fighting space. Finding yourself in this situation there will be little point in spamming AoE spells as they will affect your party as well. This cheesy tactic is only viable at range.

On a side-note: How would you imagine an enemy triggering another enemy @Gallowglass? Wouldn't they simply ignore the humans come running towards them? I would assume you don't charge in with your fighters while you turn that area in to Chernobyl a massive chaos. I wouldn't worry about that, since your other party members are technically idle due to the little demand in activity needed to deal with the humanoid party, you should be able to fight them off anyways.

gorgonzola

RelSundan said:

On a side-note: How would you imagine an enemy triggering another enemy

I suppose that as they are scripted to attack the party they just ignore the other enemy group and continue to chase you. In the end you have 2 enemy groups attacking you each one with his own scripts.

RelSundan

gorgonzola said:

RelSundan said:

On a side-note: How would you imagine an enemy triggering another enemy

I suppose that as they are scripted to attack the party they just ignore the other enemy group and continue to chase you. In the end you have 2 enemy groups attacking you each one with his own scripts.

I think you misunderstand me. Why would you even be attacked by the second group in the first place if they haven't seen you?

Gallowglass

RelSundan said:

On a side-note: How would you imagine an enemy triggering another enemy @Gallowglass?

A couple of the bandits wander off towards the centre, and after clearing the rest of them you go looking for the strays to finish the battle... and find out the hard way that they've stopped running while standing among the rakshasa and his minions, so now you've got to fight the new mob at the same time as trying to finish off the old mob, just as your own buffs are wearing off ... unhelpful.

RelSundan

Gallowglass said:

RelSundan said:

On a side-note: How would you imagine an enemy triggering another enemy @Gallowglass?

A couple of the bandits wander off towards the centre, and after clearing the rest of them you go looking for the strays to finish the battle... and find out the hard way that they've stopped running while standing among the rakshasa and his minions, so now you've got to fight the new mob at the same time as trying to finish off the old mob, just as your own buffs are wearing off ... unhelpful.

If we go with the cheesy tactics we don't need to buff up with every single spell. Considering almost all of his party members have access to spells I don't think they would run into that problem.

Gallowglass

RelSundan said:

If we go with the cheesy tactics we don't need to buff up with every single spell.

True, but if you haven't fought quite so cheesily then you may well have used some buffs, and then regret having used them up when you accidentally blunder into the next mob while chasing down the strays.

Skatan

I've actually experienced what @gallowglass says and those battles can be difficulty indeed but are also the most fun; when you are forced into an unplanned battle and have to become creative. Usually this means I actually use all those potions I keep stacked up neatly or wands that have sat idly in the pockets of my mages. Good times. Perhaps not so much for no-reload, but if yuo are playing no-reload you wouldn't risk getting into such a situation anyways.

RelSundan

Gallowglass said:

I don't recommend using spells like Chaos/Confusion/Horror in the bandit battle. If one of the enemy wanders off (in confusion/panic/etc) towards the centre, then it's possible accidentally to trigger the rakshasa battle whilst you're still in the middle of the bandit battle, which is a darn nuisance. But Web and Emotion (and others which don't cause random wandering) are obviously good.

But here you stated that this problem is a follow up if you use the cheesy tactics. If you go with a fair tactic and don't spam the with Chaos etc you wont have them running off to the other party. Sure, you can use only Chaos and have this happen as well, but that is not really what you said, which lead to my questioning.

If you really can't beat them in this scenario, rest.

Francois

I usually prefer Emotion, rather than Chaos. But even if one of them wanders to the Rakshasa it won't make it that much more difficult. It's etremely unlikely that all six of them would become confused and wander all together to exactly the same place.

Gallowglass

Sure, you can use only Chaos and have this happen as well, but that is not really what you said, which lead to my questioning.

Even if you're trying to cheese it by spamming the bandits with AoEs, you can still (I speak from experience!) have an unhelpful result if Chaos (or Horror, or whatever) happens to hit first, or if they make their initial save against Web/Hold and then fail against Chaos/Horror - either way, they can then wander out of the target zone before anything else stops them.

I therefore prefer (and recommend) keeping the bandit battle confined to its original location by using Web/Hold/etc and avoiding Chaos/Horror/etc.

Francois said:

It's etremely unlikely that all six of them would become confused and wander all together to exactly the same place.

True, highly unlikely for all six, but I've certainly seen it happen for a couple of them at once.

If your party are already reasonably strong (as may be the OP's specific case), then it's unlikely to make a difference to the eventual outcome. However, if you're doing this segment quite early, and especially if you're a newish player with less tactical experience, then it's quite possible to lose this battle if it gets out of control.

dunbar

I recently came up with a "cunning plan" to split my party and attack the bandits simultaneously from two sides - it didn't go well.
The bandits also split up and I ended up fighting two running battles at the same time. Luckily I had cleared the sewers of everything else first but I still had to escape (or so I thought) back to street level when my buffs wore off. Unfortunately the surviving bandits followed me and then the guards joined in and attacked my party forcing them to flee the area.

Mush_Mush

Web X3 while neutral, throw in skull trap/fireball to change to hostile along with G. malison, send in the spiders. Throw in a wyvern for funzies if desired.

RelSundan

That moment when you realize you can be even cheesier than you already were..

Mush_Mush said:

Web X3 while neutral, throw in skull trap/fireball to change to hostile along with G. malison, send in the spiders. Throw in a wyvern for funzies if desired.

gorgonzola

The only cheese thing I see there is "while neutral", but as in the party there are 3 arcane casters it should be not a problem having a char that refuses to pay, triggers them hostile, disappears with a potion, spell or ring and then to throw in the stacked webs in a round, maybe while a couple of summons (hasted?) distract the enemies and keep them in one place.

Cvijeta

Well, problem is that half of my party goes panicked and can't hit a caster. I found solution by intense googling. Thank you, anyway, I love this kind of discussions.

gorgonzola

Cvijeta said:

Well, problem is that half of my party goes panicked and can't hit a caster.

There are both mage and cleric spells to make the party immune to fear and spells to remove enemy mages protections.

Grond0

Gallowglass said:

I don't recommend using spells like Chaos/Confusion/Horror in the bandit battle. If one of the enemy wanders off (in confusion/panic/etc) towards the centre, then it's possible accidentally to trigger the rakshasa battle whilst you're still in the middle of the bandit battle, which is a darn nuisance. But Web and Emotion (and others which don't cause random wandering) are obviously good.

I agree with others that enemies wandering into the rakshasa isn't a great cause for concern. What I've been caught out by several times though is someone from that group of enemies getting close to Roger, turning him hostile - which can be very annoying if you haven't yet bought up his nice potions.

Montresor_SP

Grond0 said:

Gallowglass said:

I don't recommend using spells like Chaos/Confusion/Horror in the bandit battle. If one of the enemy wanders off (in confusion/panic/etc) towards the centre, then it's possible accidentally to trigger the rakshasa battle whilst you're still in the middle of the bandit battle, which is a darn nuisance. But Web and Emotion (and others which don't cause random wandering) are obviously good.

I agree with others that enemies wandering into the rakshasa isn't a great cause for concern. What I've been caught out by several times though is someone from that group of enemies getting close to Roger, turning him hostile - which can be very annoying if you haven't yet bought up his nice potions.

Not to mention that

you need to speak to Roger if you want to complete the Limited Wish quest.

gorgonzola

And it will also break a quest.
But in a not spoiled first run that would not be a problem, if the first time runner is wise enough to scout the area he probably will try to deal with each group of enemies separately, other way loosing possible quests and opportunities or create difficult situations that force a reload is part of the first not spoiled run.
And he will not read this topic.
But for who read here and/or has been trough the area before the best hint is to first kill the Rakshasa and his helpers and then fight the bandits, unless he is deliberately seeking trouble for an increased challenge.
This is not only true if you use spells like confusion, is true with almost any tactic. In vanilla Tanner and his friends are scripted to move around and chase you much more than the typical enemies that you find and you need to clear a space for a possible retreat.

gorgonzola

Cvijeta said:

Well, problem is that half of my party goes panicked and can't hit a caster. I found solution by intense googling. Thank you, anyway, I love this kind of discussions.

Which solution you did find/use?
We spent some of our time to help you, and a feedback is wellcome...

Cvijeta

Chaotic commands spell. But i didn't work as planned, so I cleared the dungeon, then charged those bloody dwarfs, killed the mage quickly as I can (the same thing I done before) and that was it.

gorgonzola

thanks!

sluckers

For next time, and anyone else...

Aerie is extremely competent with the Draug Fea's group. When encountered, they don't immediately attack and cluster together, retreating a few steps to do so. Aerie can let loose with web + holy smite as needed. With Anomen at your side the duo can unleash some very devastating carpet bombing while Jan and your others use slings, spells and arrows to score auto hits on held enemies.

Use two web spells to guard against enemies getting unstuck. They will have to make twice as many saves and usually fail under those circumstances.