Parting Ways with Jaheira and Minsc
Nightingale
Member Posts: 61
So I am yet again beginning to brainstorm ideas for yet another playthrough and I've decided that this time, I'd like to try out NPCs that I normally ignore. Mazzy, Korgan, Haer'Dalis... maybe even his royal pompousness himself, Anomen. Basically, everyone other than Cernd (whom I despise) is on the table.
Since Jaheira and Minsc make it difficult to get too experimental with the party comp and have become almost permanent fixtures in many of my teams, I've decided to try and keep them out of the party this time. The problem is that I'm having a hard time justifying it from a RP perspective. I mean, they've been with you for the events of BG1 and SoD. Why would you part ways with them now? What's more, both of them have revenge as motivation for hunting down Irenicus, so I feel they wouldn't be keen on the idea of leaving them behind either.
Since I'm hardly the first person to try and drop them from the party, I'm curious as to how you all justify the act. How do you RP parting ways with your best friends when there is still work to be done? Assume that CHARNAME is of a good alignment and willingly traveled with the canon party for the events of BG1 and SoD. Also assume that they traveled with Jaheira and Minsc through Chateau Irenicus, meaning that CHARNAME is aware of the fact that they survived the attack on your group.
Since Jaheira and Minsc make it difficult to get too experimental with the party comp and have become almost permanent fixtures in many of my teams, I've decided to try and keep them out of the party this time. The problem is that I'm having a hard time justifying it from a RP perspective. I mean, they've been with you for the events of BG1 and SoD. Why would you part ways with them now? What's more, both of them have revenge as motivation for hunting down Irenicus, so I feel they wouldn't be keen on the idea of leaving them behind either.
Since I'm hardly the first person to try and drop them from the party, I'm curious as to how you all justify the act. How do you RP parting ways with your best friends when there is still work to be done? Assume that CHARNAME is of a good alignment and willingly traveled with the canon party for the events of BG1 and SoD. Also assume that they traveled with Jaheira and Minsc through Chateau Irenicus, meaning that CHARNAME is aware of the fact that they survived the attack on your group.
1
Comments
I find Jaheira rude and overbearing when you first meet her, thoroughly unpleasant. X and M might be evil, but at least they are kind of nice to you. So I never take her.
Plus there's really something wrong with a person who insists that two inexperienced youngsters (and she calls them children all the time herself), who have had assination attempts and literally don't know their arse from their elbow, accompany K and J into known danger.
With "friends" like that who needs enemies?
So J and K never get near me.
Minsc attacks you if you turn down his request, he attacks you if he goes berserk, he attacks you if you take too long to get to the gnoll stronghold.
Nobody in their right mind would travel with a person like that. I've said this elsewhere, you would never sleep easy with that maniac around.
So I drop him, even if I go rescue Dynaheir, all of us are safer without him.
I actually find it hard to justify taking any of that foursome, (I dislike Dynaheir for hunting for a Bhaalspawn without telling you) they are all wrong on so many levels.
Just to add, Jaheira does actually betray you to the Harpers, and if you then say " we need to split up" she gets rude and bitchy yet again.
Having put me in a position where I would have suffered a fate worse than death, I somehow should be grateful for her finally fighting on my side?
Howabout it being more the case that that was the very least she could do.
If you've played the game a lot I recommend using EEKeeper to modify the classes of some of these NPCs to give them more replay value. For instance I am now playing with Dynaheir as a Shaman which better fits her description of a witch.
Jaheira and Minsc are easy. What gives me more trouble is Valigar when I have a full good party with no room for him.
And Jan, how can you not recruit him???
For Minsc, it's a little tougher to justify other than that you believe him to be unsettled/unpredictable lol. That is assuming you're not evil - if you're playing an evil CHARNAME minsc and his goody-goody hamster would be anathema.
So, I free them both but then part ways with them once I get to the Copper Coronet. It's very simple.
The one I never, ever take is Edwin. He may be the most powerful mage in all the Realms for all I care, but anyone with an attitude like that is not going to get into my party, even if I'm playing evil.
But no one likes Edwin. It's like he's pathologically incapable to endear himself to anyone.
I'm not sure Viconia is a bitch. I agree that initially she's very difficult (in BG2), and her stories are dark indeed, but she has come from a very different world and her distrust of strangers is perfectly justified (just of think of the initial encounter with her in BG2).
"Edwin is the epitome of a creep with no redeeming features whatsoever"
Not going to let that one go without an argument.
No redeeming features except that he is the best mage in the game..........
And apart from that, doesn't really give you any trouble, it's not Edwin who starts fights.
Edwin seems to be written exactly as a RW of Thay should be, everything sacrificed for magical prowess, from a system that values nothing else.
Yet he doesn't betray Charname.
Don't see how you can forgive Viconia for her background yet ignore Edwin's.
Minsc, however, is harder.His closest companion is dead, and he has no contacts in the city. Getting him killed also seems cruel. When dismissed, he goes to the Copper Coronet, you could rp that wiht everthing that has happened, he spirals into depression and alchol, but that is still really really dark for him. Does that game give you the option to tell npcs to wait where they are when you dismiss them? I play with some mods, so I don't want to assume thats in the vanilla game. If you can, you could take him to remote place in the docks district that you wont have need to visit again, and leave him there. Easily rp'ed as waiting for a boat that can take him back to Rashemen.
As for alignment, it will likely be on the good side of the spectrum; probably neutral-good, though that depends ultimately on the class.
@UnderstandMouseMagic Eh, I think you're a bit too harsh on Khalid and Jaheira. Minsc is a bit easier to kick out based on everything you brought up (I mean, he takes his orders from a hamster for crying out loud). But I can definitely see CHARNAME traveling with J and K. For starters, I think you give FAR too much credit to Xzar and Montaron. Monatron is NOT even remotely close to "nice". Everything from his bio to the way he speaks to you during your initial meeting if you try talking to him instead of Xzar implies that he's about one misunderstanding away from gutting you. He's surly at best and downright hostile at worst. And while Xzar is more personable, it's definitely in a more manipulative, using you to achieve his goals sort of way. Meeting him is definitely reminiscent of "Hello Little Girl" a la Into the Woods, at least in my opinion. Khalid and Jaheira on the other hand are actually very cordial when you first meet and talk about how they mourn Gorion's loss. Hell, Gorion even encourages you to seek them out. He trusted them, so obviously they can't be THAT bad (unless of course you're an evil/Chaotic Neutral CHARNAME who could give two kittens what Gorion thinks you should do). As for them taking you to Nashkel, I think it's a fairly reasonable thing to do, though it can be seen a irresponsible. First, they are both Harpers, which likely means that they know that you are being hunted and believe that staying on the move under their protection is far superior to remaining in one place for too long. After all, the whole reason you left Candlekeep is because Gorion had similar thoughts on the matter. Also, being Harpers, they likely have a suspicion that the concerns in Nashkel are linked to your current woes, and thus must be solved if you are to ever know peace. As for the "child" thing, I don't look too deeply into that. It's a common phrase tossed around by parental figures; a bit patronizing perhaps, but ultimately harmless. It's likely more a comment on the fact that you are naive to the ways of the world (which when you meet them, you likely are) than your prowess in combat. In fact, depending on the class, you might be even more combat capable than they are.
@ThacoBell Yeah, I know what you mean. It's REALLY hard for me to run a good CHARNAME without both of them, and damn near impossible for me to run a game without Imoen, good or otherwise. I like your suggestions though. Jaheira does have connections and being able to take some time off to mourn Khalid could do her some good. And the Idea with Minsc and the docks is pretty clever too. I'm pretty sure you can ask them to remain in the current location in the vanilla game (I'm a mod lover too, but I'm almost positive on that count). The only thing I'm not certain about is whether they'll remain there indefinitely or temporarily before relocating to their default rest zone. A future experiment perhaps?
Dorn started to get weird. He started hitting on my CHARNAME, who is female, and they ended up hooking up. Then Dorn seems to have lost his freaking mind for some reason. He attacked us, and then after we kicked his ass, he relented a bit. But after that, I tossed him. He was becoming too unstable.
I recruited Keldorn, but I had to boot him as well, because I am working with Bodhi, and I'm sure he wouldn't stick around once he learned about that.
I LOVE Minsc and Mazzy! I wish Mazzy was in BG1!
I didn't really want Jaheira back in my party, but once I booted Dorn, I was looking around for fighters, and the only other one I could recruit was Valygar, and he just doesn't appeal to me for some reason.
The only one you have left to take is Haer Dalis who can be used as a fighter.
There won't be any conflicts using him either.
But you are short of a cleric, that makes the game harder for dealing with undead.
It seems pretty normal that Dorn will turn on you at some point, although he then seems to settle down once you show him who's in charge.
As @UnderstandMouseMagic says, you look to be short of a Cleric, unless perhaps your protagonist is a Cleric. Clerics aren't essential, but it's certainly easier if you have one. It may therefore be an unfortunate handicap that you killed Anomen, he might have been better for you than Jaheira, since you're fighter-heavy even without her.
Yes, Haer'Dalis can eventually be used as a fighter, and quite effectively, once you've got him set up with suitable equipment and good self-buffing spells. However, I don't find him much use in a warrior role in the earlier stages - his HP and THAC0 are both too weak at first - so you have to be patient if you want to use him that way.
I had wanted Keldorn in my party, and I replaced Jaheira with him. I am at the part of the game where I have to kill the Shadow Thieves. I am not sure if Keldorn will like that I am working with Bodhi. Minsc and Mazzy don't seem to mind. I mean, both groups are evil, right?
If Keldorn bails, I guess I'll have to pick up Jaheira again. I tried to "spawn" Anomen, but I don't know the item code, if one exists. And I don't want to have to start over.
I kind of like the idea of a mostly good party working with a vampire. I am sure "in game", the goody-goodies aren't really comfortable with that, and I think Minsc had mentioned this fact once or twice.
Since their goal is to rescue Imoen, I like to think that "in game", they are doing what they need to do for the ultimate good, rescuing their friend. It makes the game more interesting as far as role-playing goes.
So right now I am working with:
CHARNAME - Sarra - cleric (Lawful Good)
Minsc (Chaotic Good)
Mazzy (Lawful Good)
Keldorn (Lawful Good)
Jan (Chaotic Neutral)
Korgan (Chaotic Evil)
Obviously I am Lawful Good heavy, with a small dose of Chaotic. Korgan is the only evil dude in my party, but the others don't seem to be too bothered by that. I figured Keldorn might have a problem, but so far, he's been quiet about it.
Level drain is a PITA. Much better they never get the chance IMO.
(also rather like the text box coming up with a long list of "dead" and the associated experience, silly I know, but at the Shade temple there's nothing better than allowing a large group of shades to converge and then blasting them)
The further you go in the game, the more true this is. Some high-level undead (e.g. liches) can be quite dangerous unless you kill them quickly, and can be quite tricky to defeat with swords alone, but a high-level Turn Undead can just explode them immediately.
This reminds of a time playing through with Anomen.
He was much higher level than I realised and I also didn't really understand "turn undead" that well.
Got to the lich in Spellhold, Anomen was scouting ahead invisible, saw it come up in the text what the lich was doing, went back to party to prepare them for fight, leaving Anomen just standing around up the corridor out of sight.
Went back for the fight all prepped up, no lich.....where was the lich?
Ran around the corridors looking for lich.....................
So looked in the text, Lich dead, experience...
I thought the game had a bug.........
So maybe you defeat Sarevok, your party went separate ways, and then after departing Baldur's Gate to go south, you rendezvous with Jaheira at the Friendly Arm Inn, and acquaint yourself with Minsc in Nashkel. Two days later, your party is set upon, and BG2 begins.
The only foil to this that I recall is a dialogue in ToB where Jaheira alleges to have been at the battle with Sarevok. If you don't take him with you, though, this need not apply. Following this logic, there's nothing to force you in with Jaheira or Minsc from an RP perspective.