Bhaal Powers (evil) - what determines what you get and when?

Oxford_Guy

Hi - I recently started a new BGT-WEIDU game with an (evil-aligned) similar party to how I intend to play my first BGEE run-through (CHARNAME, Kagain, Monteron, Imoen, Viconia, Edwin). CHARNAME is a lawful evil elf fighter/mage and in the first dream sequence (at chapter 2, I think) she received Larloch's Minor drain as a Bhaal power (which although fairly rubbish as a spell is okay as a Bhaal power, as can cast it in armour). I think I had either 8 or 9 reputation at the time.

Anyway, I've just reached chapter 4 on completion of the Nashkel Mines (not sure what happened to chapter 3, don't remember a notification about that!) and currently have 10 reputation. I've not rested yet, as I think (I could be wrong) that you receive the Bhaal powers after each chapter (?), and I'm not sure what determines which Bhaalpowers you get - is it related to your reputation or your alignment (or both, somehow)? I'd like to get the more evil-oriented Bhaalpowers if possible, and am quite happy to receive those which require you to touch an opponent, as am a fighter/mage. Should I try to lower my reputation first, in that case? What's the cut-off and does the ability you receive change the lower your reputation gets or is there just a "good" random set and an "evil" random set? I don't want to get hassled by the Flaming Fist, if I can avoid it, though, which I think means keeping reputation above 5.

Also - does CHARNAME need to be party leader on completion of chapter (as this site suggests: http://www.pottsland.com/baulder/qah/characters.shtml ) to get the Bhaal Powers? If so, I might have to reload for CHARNAME to get the Bhaal power ability... Thanks!

shawne

Your reputation needs to be below 10 (7-9 is a comfortable range to avoid unwanted attention from the Flaming Fist and internal conflicts with Good party members).

Also, I'm not sure, but I think you've already missed a few powers by not resting in the previous chapters. Basically, rest as soon as a new chapter begins and eventually you'll get a new dream.

Oxford_Guy

shawne said:

Your reputation needs to be below 10 (7-9 is a comfortable range to avoid unwanted attention from the Flaming Fist and internal conflicts with Good party members).

Also, I'm not sure, but I think you've already missed a few powers by not resting in the previous chapters. Basically, rest as soon as a new chapter begins and eventually you'll get a new dream.

Oh really? So should I have tried to have rested as soon as I left Candlekeep? Also, I didn't get a video or other notification for Chapter 3 - when/where is this meant to take place?? Also, do I have to be party leader at the time of chapter completion. I'm not going to go back now to regain powers I might have missed, but would like to know what to do for my first BGEE run through to get as many (evil) powers as possible.

Does my reputation need to be below 10 on chapter completion or only on resting afterwards? Does it make any difference what my actual reputation score is, or does it just need to be under 10? Thanks?

Oxford_Guy

Okay, I just did a just a test (by lowering reputation to less than 10 in Shadowkeeper, after completing the Nashkel Mines), then resting. It doesn't seem to make a difference who is party leader, CHARNAME always seems to get the Bhaal powers. If its 10 or over I always seem to get Cure Light Wounds, if under, I always seem to get Larloch's Minor drain. Does the Bhaal power you get also depend on character level and/or which chapter it is? I'm still confused why I seem to have skipped Chapter 3 somehow, too...

Oxford_Guy

Just reading the URL I mentioned above, this implies that you receice the "evil" Bhaal Powers in this order: Larloch's Minor Drain, Larloch's Minor Drain, Ghoul Touch, Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, Vampiric Touch and the "good" ones in this order: Cure Light Wounds, Cure Light Wounds, Slow Poison, Slow Poison, Draw Upon Holy Might, and Draw Upon Holy Might.

Am not sure what happens if I mix them (e.g. if I'm at reputation 10 for the second one, but below that for the others, do I get Larloch's Minor Drain, Cure Light Wounds, Ghoul Touch, Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, Vampiric Touch or does something different happen? Thanks

Kirkor

shawne said:

Also, I'm not sure, but I think you've already missed a few powers by not resting in the previous chapters. Basically, rest as soon as a new chapter begins and eventually you'll get a new dream.

Wrong. You can rest whenever you like. If you didn't rest for few chapters, still you get the powers as soon as you rest (you may need to rest few times to make all the dreams happen).

Dee

I believe it's a specific power at each chapter. So if you're good in chapter one and evil in chapter five, you'll get the chapter one good power and the chapter five evil power.

One of the handy things about starting a character in BG2 is that if you're Neutral, you get a mixture of both, making you just a bit more versatile in the long run.

Oxford_Guy

Thanks, but I'm still wondering what happened to Chapter 3, have I missed it somehow?

Oxford_Guy

BTW what's the second evil Bhaal Power you get after the first two Larloch's Minor Drain? I've seen some places say its "Ghoul Touch" (e.g. http://www.pottsland.com/baulder/qah/characters.shtml ) others that it's Horror (e.g. : http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5866), or does this depend if you're playing BG1 or BG2 (or BGT/Tutu)?

Think I'll try for all the evil ones anyway, but am just curious...

waardenius

Isn't it Chapter 3 that begins with the completion of the Nashkel mines and finishes in the bandit camp?

The introductory sequence "With the death of Mulahey..." Kicks in as you soon as you find the letter in Mulaheys chest pointing you to Tranzig. Then upon resting (sometimes after a couple of tries) you should get that Macbethish dream sequence with the floating dagger and whatnot, and when you wake up recieve your second ability.

Oxford_Guy

waardenius said:

Isn't it Chapter 3 that begins with the completion of the Nashkel mines and finishes in the bandit camp?

Its said Chapter 4 when I completed Nashkel... I am playing BGT-WEIDU (http://www.shsforums.net/forum/261-bgt-weidu/), though, maybe that's why?

Mortianna

@Oxford_Guy

In original BG/ToTSC, the third and fourth evil Bhaalspawn powers are Ghoul Touch. When you import your character to BG2, they are switched to Horror. Larloch's Minor Drain (1st and 2nd powers) and Vampiric Touch (5th and 6th powers) remain the same. As others here have said, you need to have a 9 or lower reputation in order to get the evil powers.

I'd like it if there was a separate power for each of the dream sequences, both good/neutral and evil, but that's obviously not going to happen. I think you might be able to do it with Shadowkeeper, as long as you choose the "Innate" abilities.

Oxford_Guy

Mortianna said:

@Oxford_Guy

In original BG/ToTSC, the third and fourth evil Bhaalspawn powers are Ghoul Touch. When you import your character to BG2, they are switched to Horror. Larloch's Minor Drain (1st and 2nd powers) and Vampiric Touch (5th and 6th powers) remain the same. As others here have said, you need to have a 9 or lower reputation in order to get the evil powers.

Thanks, I wonder what you get in BGT/Tutu, which uses the BG2 engine? Could be either!

Mind you both Ghoul Touch and Horror are okay.

Mortianna

@Oxford_Guy

Good question. I posted a poll a while ago which asked whether people would prefer Ghoul Touch or Horror as the 3rd and 4th powers. Horror won out, but there were some conflicting comments on what people received for those slots in BG. It's been a long time since I used Tutu, but I think it was GT. I'd be interested to hear what you get when you reach those chapters in the game.

Eudaemonium

@Mortianna: I just loaded up my Tutu game which is around Chapter 5, and my character has 2 Horror spells, so maybe Tutu switches GT for Horror. Or maybe a mod I have installed did it.

Mortianna

@Eudaemonium That would make sense, since it uses the BG2/ToB engine.

kamuizin

Answer for the first post:

Reputation, 10- evil powers/11+good powers (i believe it's 10/11 the deadline). Yes, should exist neutral powers, but they just don't exist.

As far as i know, you don't lose powers by not rest, the dreams just are kept in wait until you rest. @Aosaw is right in his statement, you get the powers of each chapter based on the reputation of the moment, so if you get 2 good powers and now before sleep you have 6 of reputation, you're going to get the evil power of the chapter.

It's a ridiculous way to determine the good or evil dreams but it's what the game use unfortunally.

elminster

BGT is probably what screwed this up. This has never happened to me in vanilla BG in 10+ years of playing the game, even when I fail to rest.

artificial_sunlight

I have some fix/tweak on my BGT installation that triggers the dream sequence on the first rest after the start/complention of the chapter. That way you will never miss out any power

colonel_burger

@Oxford_guy great thread. I always thought this was purely alignment-based, I didn't know reputation was also a driver. Very handy to know!

Oxford_Guy

@colonel_burger - how the Bhaal Power assignment worked was something I really wanted to figure out b4 BGEE, especially as I will be running an evil party for my first game...

BTW Larloch's Minor drain is great for disrupting enemy mages (and as a BP can be cast in armour), can also heal yourself by casting it on squirrels and other wildlife, LOL! :-)

colonel_burger

Agreed. However I was always spewing that as an evil melee character I never got draw upon holy might Where's the draw upon UNHOLY might I ask you?!

Oxford_Guy

kamuizin said:

Answer for the first post:

Reputation, 10- evil powers/11+good powers (i believe it's 10/11 the deadline). Yes, should exist neutral powers, but they

Actually, testing seems to indicate that you need 9 or less (not 10) to get the evil Bhaal Powers...

Candramelekh

Could i have 2 LMD, 1 Remove Poison, 1 Ghoul Touch, 1 Vampiric Touch & 1 Holy Might?

Phælin

elminster said:

BGT is probably what screwed this up. This has never happened to me in vanilla BG in 10+ years of playing the game, even when I fail to rest.

True: BGT "sees" the prologue as the FIRST chapter, that's why the others differ from vanilla game by +1

artificial_sunlight

@Candramelekh Yes you can. Keep you rep <=9 to get 2LMD, 1 GT then raise it to 10/11 to get 1 slow poison and HM, and drop to <=9 to get VT

Oxford_Guy

Candramelekh said:

Could i have 2 LMD, 1 Remove Poison, 1 Ghoul Touch, 1 Vampiric Touch & 1 Holy Might?

I *think* so, that would be cool, though might be a little difficult to time the last two so it works out correctly. I definitely agree that LMD is better than CLW in the long-run and the above setup still looks suitable RP-wise for an evil CHARNAME (exposure to poisons, Draw on (un)holy Might etc.)

Oxford_Guy

Przemkas said:

elminster said:

BGT is probably what screwed this up. This has never happened to me in vanilla BG in 10+ years of playing the game, even when I fail to rest.

True: BGT "sees" the prologue as the FIRST chapter, that's why the others differ from vanilla game by +1

Aha! That makes lots of sense, thinking about it, phew! So by the end of Chapter 4 in BGT (Chapter 3 in BG un-modded), i.e. Nashkel Mines, I should have 2 Bhaal Powers after resting?

kamuizin

@colonel_burger, in fact the alignment don't change a bit the powers you receive, if you are chaotic evil with 18 reputation, you gonna get all the good powers, this is the way that this thing work.

Karrgoot

all evil powers suck ass 2 drains a fear bla bla bla vs a heal and holy migt and more all good. this good vs evil is crap. If u play evil the original game makers systematicly fucks u over and over whit less XP, bad rewords some times u get more gold yahoo! 20g more... peas of shit! and less rep u have the best NCP. Good det more XP, better rewords ur rep skyrockets and ur NCPs suck ass

elminster

@Karrgoot horror instantly cast is pretty useful. XP is generally more dependent on the charisma of the first person in your party, but honestly split over 6 people the benefits you get from those specific evil/good choices is not significant. The two games certainly penalises you with shop prices, but its quite possible to play as an evil character and follow the evil choices. Evil characters do get the shaft in both games, but its not as bad as you make it out to be.