Which Class/Kit For First Playthrough?

MikeMasters

I have no idea which Class/Kit to go for during my first playthrough. My initial idea was to use a Kensai as I never tried a kensai/mage in BG2:EE but I understand a Kensai for all of BG:EE will suck. I also heard a beserker/mage was cool so I could do BG1:EE as a beserker?

I plan to take all 3 new NPC's in my party so a pure mage is out, so is a monk/blackguard. the 5th and 6th members of my party aren't decided yet but atleast one of them will have the ability to heal my party.

I have never been a fan of clerics or druids so would prever to avoid them.

Thief might be cool, not sure how good at melee they will be? I prefer to avoid bows if possible. I liked the look of both Assassin and Swashbuckler, ive never really been into backstabbing but maybe its something worth trying? I think that maybe Swashbuckler is for me?

I know Ranger is another option but none of the kits looked very good for that, I think I would rather be a fighter so I can get 5 pips in a weapon


Help!

Dino

Berserker sounds pretty straightforward.
Im also interested in thief capability thougj, since Im torn between a bard and a quarterstaff thief/cleric.

Oxford_Guy

I was considering a halfling Assassin or stealthy Fighter/Thief, but have decided to go for an (evil) elf Fighter/Mage, not necessarily optimal for BGEE, but should rock in BG2EE. I like thieves, they're fun, but have played them too often!

Berserker>Mage just seems wrong to me, though can be powerful, but you could end up spending most/all of BGEE as a class you don't really want to be. A Kensai>Mage can be awesomely powerful, but playing a Kensai sucks in BG1, and the dual build is a bit too OP in BG2. Swashbuckler>Mage is more interesting IMHO.

BTW you say you want to avoid clerics or druids, yet also want someone to be able to heal your party, that leaves what - a Paladin (which could be difficult with Dorn in your party...) or just your (limited) Bhaal Power Cure Light Wounds (and only if not evil/low rep)? Viconia is am awesome cleric and gets high magic resistance to boot, I recommend you take her, if at all possible, especially if you have an evil or neutral party.

A straight thief is not good in melee, but a fighter/thief (or fighter>thief, even) is good, as is a swashbuckler (though lose backstab, which makes them not as fun in my book, but opinions differ) and, to a less extent, an Assassin. I prefer to use non-humans for thieves (halflings or elves, or gnomes if illusionist/thief), so rarely dual them. BTW elves are slightly better in melee due to +1THAC0 with swords (and bows, of course), but halflings are better at hiding and get the shorty saving throw bonuses, which are very nice (and +1 THAC0 slings). Monteron (a halfling) is a great fighter/thief NPC in BG1.

Regarding Rangers, the Stalker kit is quite fun, as can backstab at higher levels. I think straight fighters (even the kits) are boring for CHARNAME, but opinions may differ.

Oxford_Guy

Dino said:

Berserker sounds pretty straightforward.
Im also interested in thief capability thougj, since Im torn between a bard and a quarterstaff thief/cleric.

Thief/Cleric is a interesting combo, can find/disable traps hidden by Sanctuary (but not backstab from, still need to hide/go invisible for that) and Draw Upon Holy might helps boost backstabs, but limited weapon options, especially for backstabs (just staves and clubs, I think, until the UAI HLA), though you could still arm yourself with a hammer or flail when not backstabbing, at least.

I'd rather have a Fighter/Mage than a Bard for CHARNAME, if wanting a bard would pick up an NPC, though in BG1, at least, the bard options are not great, though Eldoth is better than Garrick (and less annoying).

Mungri

I'd recommend a fighter, ranger or paladin for your first playthough.

For kits Berserker, Archer or Inquisitor are all strong, also the Kensai kit can deal the most damage and has the strongest dual class options, but is difficult to play as they cant wear armor so I wouldnt try Kensai until after you are familiar with the game.

If going for a Kensai, Kensai / Mage or Kensai / Thief are incredibly powerful. For a Berserker, dualing to a druid is usually much more common, but needs 15 str, 17 wis, 17 cha.

Swashbuckler is also great for a Thief. Backstabbing can be very annoying to focus on, and it isnt really too important so just try out the Swashbuckler first. Make a human one with 18 str, 18 dex, 16 con, and 17 int minimums to open up the uberlicious Swashbuckler / Mage dual class option.

MikeMasters

@Oxford_Guy I meant avoid clerics or druids as my main character, happy to have one on the team though.

I don't think im too worried about whats going to happen in BG2:EE, im sure then I will go the kensai/mage path but im thinking more about just BG1:EE on my first play.

I decided against Swashbuckler as I just couldn't live with 1 APR.

Maybe I should just go with a Assassin and avoid melee apart from backstab or try something totally different like a Blade as ive never even had a Bard in my party before?

reedmilfam

First playthrough of BG:EE or ever? It matters because I think you learn things as you play.

I'm going to try a pure Kensai, actually. I'm not really one to do dual-class (gimped for a big portion of the game). Even though it's powerful in the long run, it isn't something I'd be into doing.

As for difficulty in BG1, your challenges will be (1) armor class and (2) missile weapons. The trade-off is the ability to dish out a boatload of damage in short order, and improving capability as you go forward. Treat the character like a lighter one (rather than a fighter) for the first few levels and you should be golden (act like he/she is a thief, rather than a brawler).

I do think I'd like to see how the barbarian class works. The problem is, if you're a fighter, you want those 5 stars (kensei get those) or have supernatural/magic power at your disposal (ranger/paladin) to somewhat keep up with the magic heavy monsters later. However, as you're dual classing...

I'd say you can make the kensai work and then switch to mage later. I know they're powerful, but it seems an odd combo for me. I'd prefer rogue/kensei for the back-stab and evasion-type abilities to help him/her be even stronger in a fight.

Mungri

Im going to be totally wierd and play a shapeshifter druid kit on my first playthough, plus an evil party. All stuff I've never done before basically.

Moomintroll

Listening to tales of dark age Britain, I may not be able to resist running around in a mail coat with a spear! so probably barbarian.

Eudaemonium

I really wish there was an evil ranger kit. I hope the BG:EE crew introduce one as DLC later, maybe with an accompanying NPC (preferably female, to balance out the new people, and because I think an evil female ranger would be kinda awesome).

I think when BG2:EE comes out I'll run a Kensai/Thief Dual. For the present, I was going to run an Assassin. They're bsically different takes on the same character concept, though.

MikeMasters

@reedmilfam First playthrough of BG:EE, ive completed BG1 maybe 3 times and BG2 maybe 10 times so I have atleast the basics down

I decided to try a Blade for my first playthrough as the spins sound totally awesome and ive never used a Bard before.

reedmilfam

Blade tempted me, too. Never did a bard, as I wasn't sure how to make them any more than a 3rd leg. Swashbuckler interested me more, actually, but it's 6 in one - ½ dozen in the other. Anyway, you could definitely make the kensai work - you know how to protect units and stuff. Later on, you'll be glad you did!

reedmilfam

@moomingtroll - We need a celtic warrior sub-class! Or Woad Raiders. Something!

Mungri

I just realized that if you stick two points into single weapon style on a Kensai, you can have 2 AC. Add the +1 ring of protection near the start of the game and thats 1 AC, but that seems like a waste of points when you really want grandmastery and either two weapon or two handed style.

Theres also nothing quite like blitzing through BG1 on a -10 to -13 AC Swashbuckler / Mage too, but I'll do that again in my second or third playthrough.

MikeMasters

@Mungri How do you get such a low AC? also is that as a solo or did you remove the XP cap?

Mungri

I removed the XP cap on my previous solo - 10 Swashbuckler / 11 mage (farmed the levels), Spirit Armor, Drizzt's defender Scimitar, could have actually had -14 AC with a pip in single weapon style too. I'll try find the AC number in one of my videos and screenshot it.

Heres with just spirit armor, defender and claw of kazgaroth:



Somehow I had it buffed to -13 too, but cant locate that part of the video (I think blur + draw upon holy might power maybe?). With single weapon style it would have been -14, with a +2 ring of protection -15.

Ah here is is, Defender + Kiels buckler + Ring +2 + spirit armor:



So single weapon style wouldnt help. Spirit Armor lasts a very long time. -13 was the lowest I could get it. OR -14 would be possible if holy might would raise my dex to 21, but that doesnt last long.

reedmilfam

I never killed Drizzt and think BG:EE will make that harder to pull off. Anyway, I need to re-learn the proficiency rules, because the single weapon style seems awesome, but not at the cost of Grand Mastery.

I'm also not sure what weapon I'll go with. My thought was mostly to use a Great Sword, since I don't get a shield. Katana would be fine, but we'll see. (For anybody that cares, which is probably a grand total of one (me), I'm thinking I'll play a Kensai (pure) through the game)...

Mungri

BG:EE will make it easier if you play a thief ad raise your set traps.

moody_mage

Single Weapon is good for multi-class characters as those guys can only take 2 pips in a weapon anyway.

@MikeMasters
Berserker is always fun and is actually extra fun in BG2. Gaining immunity to a large chunk of the status effects the game spams at you is very satisfying - especially as you are usually chainsawing down swathes of goons at the same time (assuming two weapon style fighting).

Oxford_Guy

Mungri said:

I'd recommend a fighter, ranger or paladin for your first playthough.

For kits Berserker, Archer or Inquisitor are all strong

As is the Cavalier. If going for a non-multi/dual fighting class, I'd pick a Ranger or Paladin over a straight fighter for a PC, even though you lose being able to put 5 points into weapon mastery, as they're just more interesting.

Oxford_Guy

MikeMasters said:

@Oxford_Guy I meant avoid clerics or druids as my main character, happy to have one on the team though.

Ah, I see, makes sense now! I did consider playing an evil Halfling Cleric of Talos for my first BGEE playthrough (still might do for my second), partly because the idea of a magic-using halfling in full plate is entertaining, but also because its actually not as bad as it sounds, what with the shorty saving throw bonus, high dex and +1 THAC0 with slings (actually useful for a cleric), and the Talos bonus abilities(Lighting Bolt and Storm Shield, which are both awesome, see: http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Classes_and_Kits#Cleric_Kits) would be more of a ranged weapon/offensive spell caster than the typical more melee-oriented Cleric, though

Oxford_Guy

reedmilfam said:

First playthrough of BG:EE or ever? It matters because I think you learn things as you play.

I'm going to try a pure Kensai, actually. I'm not really one to do dual-class (gimped for a big portion of the game). Even though it's powerful in the long run, it isn't something I'd be into doing.

I'm not a huge fan of dual-classing (except sometimes Fighter dualed to something else at Level 3 to get extra proficiencies etc. for a thief or mage etc.) either, you spend half the game being something you don't really want to be, and I don't like the idea of having to stop progressing in one class. I prefer my CHARNAME to be multi- or single-classed. Also some people forget the advantages of mutliple classes, just looking at THAC0/attacks/spells isn't the whole story, e.g. mutlis can be non-human (with the consequent bonuses e.g. saves/charm resistance, THAC0 sword/bow/sling bonuses, theiving bonuses etc.) and also can get HLAs for *both* classes. Think you can only have one stronghold (unmodded) in BG2 as a multi, but I'm not 100% sure about that

reedmilfam said:

I do think I'd like to see how the barbarian class works.

I did consider a Gnome barabarian for BGEE at one point... think about it, its better than it sounds - you get up to 18 dex (unlike a dwarf), up to 18/00 strength (unlike a halfling) and get the shorty spell/wand saving throw bonuses (though lose out on the poison/death one a dwarf or halfling would get)

reedmilfam said:

The problem is, if you're a fighter, you want those 5 stars (kensei get those) or have supernatural/magic power at your disposal (ranger/paladin) to somewhat keep up with the magic heavy monsters later.

I'm inclined to agree, though the Barbarian immunities help

reedmilfam said:

However, as you're dual classing...

I'd say you can make the kensai work and then switch to mage later. I know they're powerful, but it seems an odd combo for me. I'd prefer rogue/kensei for the back-stab and evasion-type abilities to help him/her be even stronger in a fight.

Kensai>Mage is less odd than Berserker>Mage in my opinion, though, at least both Kensai and Mage are classes that share the idea of focusing the mind, whereas Berserker is more about losing one's mind...

Oxford_Guy

Mungri said:

Im going to be totally wierd and play a shapeshifter druid kit on my first playthough, plus an evil party. All stuff I've never done before basically.

@Mungri, as I think you know from some other threads I've posted in, I'm currently playing my first proper run-through BG(Trilogy) with an evil party, am having lots of fun. Failed pickpocket? Nevermind STAB, take item anyway. Healing oneself by casting Larloch's Minor Drain (as a Bhaalpower) on wild animals is also entertaiing.

Shapeshifter is weird, but could be fun - its not all about power-gaming

Mungri

I keep forgetting who you are since the avatar change lol.

Oxford_Guy

reedmilfam said:

I never killed Drizzt and think BG:EE will make that harder to pull off. Anyway, I need to re-learn the proficiency rules, because the single weapon style seems awesome, but not at the cost of Grand Mastery.

Single weapon style is a good choice for thieves, as you double the crit chance on a backstab and the -1AC bonus protects against missile weapons, which a buckler doesn't. Not so good for other classes, though

Oxford_Guy

decado said:

Single Weapon is good for multi-class characters as those guys can only take 2 pips in a weapon anyway..

Yes, but the AC bonus is less important in BG2 and Two-Handed Fighting Style or Two Weapon Fighting style are better options for most multi's, I think

reedmilfam

I'm planning to be straight Kensai, so the AC bonus is really important. I'm not super interested in two weapon fighting, although I'd probably go that route as a rogue or ranger (double daggers for rogue!).

Oxford_Guy

reedmilfam said:

I'm planning to be straight Kensai, so the AC bonus is really important. I'm not super interested in two weapon fighting, although I'd probably go that route as a rogue or ranger (double daggers for rogue!).

Double daggers is a cool idea, let down by not amazing weapons in BG2 (Dagger of Venom in BG1 is vicious, though) and magic short-swords are just as fast

Dino

Oxford_Guy said:

Thief/Cleric is a interesting combo, can find/disable traps hidden by Sanctuary (but not backstab from, still need to hide/go invisible for that) and Draw Upon Holy might helps boost backstabs, but limited weapon options, especially for backstabs (just staves and clubs, I think, until the UAI HLA), though you could still arm yourself with a hammer or flail when not backstabbing, at least.

I'd rather have a Fighter/Mage than a Bard for CHARNAME, if wanting a bard would pick up an NPC, though in BG1, at least, the bard options are not great, though Eldoth is better than Garrick (and less annoying).

I have no problems with the Quarterstaff. Itll be like a wise monk with a walking stick. Ben Kenobi stealthy, clever like William of Baskerville

reedmilfam

Oxford_Guy said:

Double daggers is a cool idea, let down by not amazing weapons in BG2 (Dagger of Venom in BG1 is vicious, though) and magic short-swords are just as fast

Looking more at the character I want to play than the metagame aspects. I understand how people want to maximize, but I want to play something that interests me and figure out how to make it work. Not saying one approach is any better than the other; I'm guess it's more that I want to role play more than optimize the overall build.

Maybe short sword/dagger is a better mix? I'd want a hand-axe in the second hand for a ranger though. Again, RP thing

Oxford_Guy

reedmilfam said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Double daggers is a cool idea, let down by not amazing weapons in BG2 (Dagger of Venom in BG1 is vicious, though) and magic short-swords are just as fast

Looking more at the character I want to play than the metagame aspects. I understand how people want to maximize, but I want to play something that interests me and figure out how to make it work. Not saying one approach is any better than the other; I'm guess it's more that I want to role play more than optimize the overall build.

Sure, nothing wrong with that, if it makes you enjoy the game more

reedmilfam said:

Maybe short sword/dagger is a better mix?

I reckon (especially as there's a shortsword in BG2 that adds +1APR....)

reedmilfam said:

I'd want a hand-axe in the second hand for a ranger though. Again, RP thing

Shame you can only get battle axes in BG and BG2, then...

But I like axes too, I especially always give my dwarves and gnomes axes (if they can wield them)