Making an engine for isometric games from scratch is difficult. I do not think it makes sense for Beamdog to work on a new engine when they can spend the same resources working on the game itself. But then they are limited to either using IE - which is rigid, as @ThacoBell said above - or to licensing some other engine, for example, PoE engine from Obsidian based on Unity. And that engine is not as good as you want it to be: when you take a ready to use product you expect that it saves you a lot of a hassle, not adds more. Or you can try to revive IE, somehow modify it, and it might be just enough for creating the next great game.
What do you guys think about Aurora Engine? The graphics is not bad (I think NWN2 and Dragon are both using Aurora?) and it's much easier to make new areas.
What do you guys think about Aurora Engine? The graphics is not bad (I think NWN2 and Dragon are both using Aurora?) and it's much easier to make new areas.
I actually liked it (though I believe that opinion rather belongs to "unpopular opinions" thread). It promised a lot and was very modifiable. But... it's 3D! And full 3D might be too much: it makes game creation harder and what does it give back? Paradoxically, it's easier for me to turn on suspension of disbelief and use imagination when I see low-res sprites. As for me 3D should be of a very high quality for it not to break immersion and to avoid "uncanny valley". It doesn't mean that all games should use low-res sprites, but accurately done isometric game might be even better then the game with average 3D-models.
What I'm thinking is that Beamdog can continue making games with the updated IE engine. I mean, we still haven't seen IWD2 and PS:T, and I'm really eager to play games based on Dragonlance or whatever ADND setting. The potential is unlimited, they can even remake old games such as PoR.
At the same time, if the games generate good revenues, they can hire more people to make a new 3D engine that is suitable for DND games AND easier to mod. Actually they can even buy Aurora and polish the codes, might not be a bad idea.
What do you guys think about Aurora Engine? The graphics is not bad (I think NWN2 and Dragon are both using Aurora?) and it's much easier to make new areas.
I actually liked it (though I believe that opinion rather belongs to "unpopular opinions" thread). It promised a lot and was very modifiable. But... it's 3D! And full 3D might be too much: it makes game creation harder and what does it give back? It's easier for me to turn on suspension of disbelief and use imagination when I see low-res sprites. As for me 3D should be very good for it not to break immersion and to avoid "uncanny valley".
Yes, but wouldn't it be easier to build new areas on Tiles? I have never done any modding for IE, but from what I saw in the games, e.g. in SoD they do have to draw the whole map, right? But with tiles even modders can make new areas rather quickly.
If we are able to live with low-polys I guess it's not difficult to make new contents. After all NWN has a huge amount of user created contents, comparing to BG.
And about the "not to break immersion" part, I think keeping an isometric camera is a start. Make sure that the players are not able to turn the camera freely.
Yes, but wouldn't it be easier to build new areas on Tiles? I have never done any modding for IE, but from what I saw in the games, e.g. in SoD they do have to draw the whole map, right? But with tiles even modders can make new areas rather quickly.
If we are able to live with low-polys I guess it's not difficult to make new contents. After all NWN has a huge amount of user created contents, comparing to BG.
And about the "not to break immersion" part, I think keeping an isometric camera is a start. Make sure that the players are not able to turn the camera freely.
It'd be very interesting to see which way Beamdog chose for their next game (of course it's isometric game! it'd be a crime to just throw all that expertise out of a window!). But I'll be happy with any decision: either IE or updated IE, or licensed engine, or something completely new. I'm sure that they know better
Yes, but wouldn't it be easier to build new areas on Tiles? I have never done any modding for IE, but from what I saw in the games, e.g. in SoD they do have to draw the whole map, right? But with tiles even modders can make new areas rather quickly.
If we are able to live with low-polys I guess it's not difficult to make new contents. After all NWN has a huge amount of user created contents, comparing to BG.
And about the "not to break immersion" part, I think keeping an isometric camera is a start. Make sure that the players are not able to turn the camera freely.
It'd be very interesting to see which way Beamdog chose for their next game (of course it's isometric game! it'd be a crime to just throw all that expertise out of a window!). But I'll be happy with any decision: either IE or updated IE, or licensed engine, or something completely new. I'm sure that they know better
Agreed! Eagerly drooling for the next title. Even PSTEE or IWD2EE are able to satisfy my little greedy heart for a few months.
What do you guys think about Aurora Engine? The graphics is not bad (I think NWN2 and Dragon are both using Aurora?) and it's much easier to make new areas.
NWN2 and Dragon Age use the same engine? Are you sure about that? NWN2 is clunky, ugly and glitchy and have insane camera control, which combined makes the game near unplayable, while Dragon Age on highest graphic settings is almost as pretty as the Witcher 3 and does not crash / glitch every five minutes.
How about an VR engine which uses nothing but eye movement for controlling precise point-and-click action? Bonus points if it features 8k resolution textures even for misc items.
How about an VR engine which uses nothing but eye movement for controlling precise point-and-click action? Bonus points if it features 8k resolution textures even for misc items.
No please. I get headaches just from hearing VR being mentioned.
What do you guys think about Aurora Engine? The graphics is not bad (I think NWN2 and Dragon are both using Aurora?) and it's much easier to make new areas.
I actually liked it (though I believe that opinion rather belongs to "unpopular opinions" thread). It promised a lot and was very modifiable. But... it's 3D! And full 3D might be too much: it makes game creation harder and what does it give back? Paradoxically, it's easier for me to turn on suspension of disbelief and use imagination when I see low-res sprites. As for me 3D should be of a very high quality for it not to break immersion and to avoid "uncanny valley". It doesn't mean that all games should use low-res sprites, but accurately done isometric game might be even better then the game with average 3D-models.
you're wrong about 3d - ie is already 3d in a sense that it's prerendered...3d animations were created and all. if the resources were preserved you could now have a 3d version of the engine with the original models and animations and it would look the same, with some finishing touches and good modern lighting and shaders. it would only have perspective and you could rotate the camera...would that be bad or cause the uncanny valley efcect? of course not.
also, in general, 3d graphics don't have to strive for realism and photorealism. it can be a stylized design...
In fact, I almost prefer Red Steel 2 graphics to the Witcher 3. Cellshading is very... hmmm... how do I put this? To the point! It scales away ambient stuff, letting you focus on the action, sorts of. Smoother.
Another (unrelated to graphics) suggestion: Add execution moves. In every game I know that has it, it works well. Prince of Persia 3D (the one before sands of time etc, yes, there is a PoP like that, google it), Mortal Kombat, Red Steel 2, Dragon Age, the list goes on.
In my opinion, the reason the IE is so iconic is three fold:
1. The mechanics are open. You know how basically every roll the system makes works and why you passed or failed it. The whole thing being remniscient of playing an actual game of D&D feels great.
2. The way the engine utilizes graphics is top notch. For a 20 year old system, it does an amazing job of making you feel like you're tromping around in a beautiful, painted piece of fantasy art. The way the narrating scenes at the beginning of chapters play and the way the only thing you see when someone talks is their portrait feels like you're sitting around a table playing D&D.
3. The assets being so modular that modding was easy enough to get all the great mods people have made over the years.
You start getting in to 3D graphics and cameras that swivel around to capture facial expressions and you start getting in to this weird area of dialogue feeling unnatural, uncanny valley characters, and mechanics taking a back seat to looking good while slaying monsters.
If Beamdog wants to make a new engine going forward, more power to them. I just hope they recognize what others have done wrong and what the IE did right.
I love the IE and all the improvements that Beamdog has done so far (esp. the sprite outline & all the additional chars, kits & classes), but I'd still prefer they'd create a new engine in case they create a completely new(!) D&D game (best one with the most extensive character customization ever done *^_^*).
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At the same time, if the games generate good revenues, they can hire more people to make a new 3D engine that is suitable for DND games AND easier to mod. Actually they can even buy Aurora and polish the codes, might not be a bad idea.
If we are able to live with low-polys I guess it's not difficult to make new contents. After all NWN has a huge amount of user created contents, comparing to BG.
And about the "not to break immersion" part, I think keeping an isometric camera is a start. Make sure that the players are not able to turn the camera freely.
(of course it's isometric game! it'd be a crime to just throw all that expertise out of a window!). But I'll be happy with any decision: either IE or updated IE, or licensed engine, or something completely new. I'm sure that they know betteryou're wrong about 3d
- ie is already 3d in a sense that it's prerendered...3d animations were created and all. if the resources were preserved you could now have a 3d version of the engine with the original models and animations and it would look the same, with some finishing touches and good modern lighting and shaders. it would only have perspective and you could rotate the camera...would that be bad or cause the uncanny valley efcect? of course not.
also, in general, 3d graphics don't have to strive for realism and photorealism. it can be a stylized design...
In fact, I almost prefer Red Steel 2 graphics to the Witcher 3. Cellshading is very... hmmm... how do I put this? To the point! It scales away ambient stuff, letting you focus on the action, sorts of. Smoother.
Another (unrelated to graphics) suggestion: Add execution moves. In every game I know that has it, it works well. Prince of Persia 3D (the one before sands of time etc, yes, there is a PoP like that, google it), Mortal Kombat, Red Steel 2, Dragon Age, the list goes on.
1. The mechanics are open. You know how basically every roll the system makes works and why you passed or failed it. The whole thing being remniscient of playing an actual game of D&D feels great.
2. The way the engine utilizes graphics is top notch. For a 20 year old system, it does an amazing job of making you feel like you're tromping around in a beautiful, painted piece of fantasy art. The way the narrating scenes at the beginning of chapters play and the way the only thing you see when someone talks is their portrait feels like you're sitting around a table playing D&D.
3. The assets being so modular that modding was easy enough to get all the great mods people have made over the years.
You start getting in to 3D graphics and cameras that swivel around to capture facial expressions and you start getting in to this weird area of dialogue feeling unnatural, uncanny valley characters, and mechanics taking a back seat to looking good while slaying monsters.
If Beamdog wants to make a new engine going forward, more power to them. I just hope they recognize what others have done wrong and what the IE did right.