Thanks@Lemernis, I've been using some of these strategies, but have learned some things too, and its good to have this all in one place.
Do you have any specific spell strategy tips for fighter/mages (primarily the multi-class), as these classes can play quite differently? Thanks
As we know, a multi-class Fighter-Mage won't gain new spell levels as fast as a pure mage, nor gain as spells levels as high as a mage, but the trade-off is they are hardier and can melee or use bows.
I don't see much point to using a Fighter-Mage to begin with unless one wishes to use both fighting skills and spellcasting in combination...
If you're going to melee with a F-M you'll need to spend a spell slot on Armor, which basically lasts for a full waking cycle in the game. Various enchanted items reduce AC as well. And Find Familiar will also boost HP.
Just how to combine spells and martial combat is a matter of taste, I guess.
There's something inherently risky about trying to spellcast during melee, so myself, I go with that and see what I can achieve. You do end up wasting some spells that get interrupted from successful hits by the enemy, but that's all part of the gamble.
I get a kick out of using Ghoul Touch and Vampiric Touch in the midst of melee. And early on I find it fun to use Color Spray (spell effect is neat), although you can easily end up knocking out your own party members if they fall within the cone. I sort of like using Lighting in melee as well, although that too is living a little dangerously re: causing friendly fire casualties. Agannazar's Scorcher is safer in that respect.
A F-M could also use a wand of paralyzation in combat. Ditto for wands of sleep and horror. But that feels a little cheap to me, somehow.
As for casting spells like Sleep, Horror, Glitterdust, Hold Person, Charm Person, etc., I tend to cast those first from the rear at the battle's onset, then rush in to melee and cast spells in the thick of combat.
I guess a F-M could also use bow and arrow (or darts of stunning) from a distance, along with the usual mage spells. Darts of stunning could be used in melee too, though, which could add another interesting dimension.
- Cast Shapechange: Mindflayer and Timestop, then intelligence drain everything to death. - Combine Simulacrum and Spelltrap to replenish your own spells. - Use Limited Wish to 'Summon a horde to overrun your enemies' then Wish to cast ADHW on every creature (I'm pretty sure this ADHW isn't friendly so protect yourself first!) - For Cleric/thieves, Cast Righteous Magic, Shapechange: Iron Golem (from a scroll) then Assassination. I believe Iron Golem fists do 4d10+4 damage. Enjoy!
Yea I only recently found out that half orcs can be cleric / thieves. I'll have to play one sometime, but I'll be waiting for BG2EE to test it out fully.
Its also a perfect support character for a party full of dual classers, so you always have healing and thief skills available.
Yea I only recently found out that half orcs can be cleric / thieves. I'll have to play one sometime, but I'll be waiting for BG2EE to test it out fully.
Yeah, my main first run through BGEE will be with an elf F/M, but I might do a slower parallel run with a Cleric/Thief, I think its an interesting class, though am unsure whether to go Gnome or Half-Orc, the only real advantage (apart from RP, which *is* a factor, especially with Dorn on-board...) the Half-Orc has is +1 strength, which will be great initially, but less significant later (and the Str damage bonus only gets added *after* the backstab multiplier), when a Gnome can buff almost as well with DUHM etc.
A Gnome meanwhile gets the shorty Con bonus saves for spells/wands (but not poison/death) plus the handy racial thief bonuses. The BG2 gnome paperdoll and avatar are terrible, though, so I hope 1pp changes that in BGEE...
19 str also boosts to hit by a lot more than 17, so your backstabs will land a lot more.
True, though a Gnome *can* start with 18 strength (they don't get -1 STR like halflings, though they do get -1 WIS, but there are LOADS of Wisdom tomes), and increase to 19 STR with a tome.
The gnome saves and thief bonuses are quite a help too, perhaps better than +1 STR. The Half-Orc can have 19 Con, but that is irrelevant for a non-fighter class
Can you also backstab from sanctuary like you can from invisible?
Unfortunately not, but you can scout traps with sanctuary, and when you spot enemies hide in shadows, STAB, then enter sanctuary, safely move out of the area, and hide again and repeat, in theory, though casting time for Santuary is 4, which might be a little slow.
Thanks@Lemernis, I've been using some of these strategies, but have learned some things too, and its good to have this all in one place.
Do you have any specific spell strategy tips for fighter/mages (primarily the multi-class), as these classes can play quite differently? Thanks
As we know, a multi-class Fighter-Mage won't gain new spell levels as fast as a pure mage, nor gain as spells levels as high as a mage, but the trade-off is they are hardier and can melee or use bows.
15=+1hp/lvl 16=+2hp/lvl 17=+3hp/lvl to Fighters/Rangers/Paladins ONLY (as well as any multiclass combo involving these classes) +2 to everyone else 18=+4hp/lvl (+2 to non-warriors) 19=+5hp/lvl (+2 to non-warriors) (+1 save vs poison/death)
then: 20: 1 hp/6 rounds (+1 save vs poison/death) 21: 1 hp/5 rounds (+2 save vs poison/death) 22: 1 hp/4 rounds (+2 save vs poison/death) 23: 1 hp/3 rounds (+3 save vs poison/death) 24: 1 hp/2 rounds (+3 save vs poison/death) 25: 1 hp/round (+4 save vs poison/death)
NB: only Dwarves and Halflings enjoy a better Save vs. Death for a high CON score.
higher con grants increased regen and greater poison bonuses, and an increase of hp IIRC +1hp/3 points of con)
constitution HP bonuses only count for HD levels (1-9 for warriors/priests
1-10 for thieves/bards/mages)
Regeneration through Constitution is not cumulative: If you are under the effect of a spell, potion, or item that grants Regeneration, the computer ignores all Regen rates except the highest one. The only ways to stack Regeneration is to equip 2 or more items that grant the same Regen rate, or to take a Regenerating character and cast Improved Haste (BG2 spell) on it.
Thanks, though how BG implements AD&D is not always the same as the Player's Manual...
This (excellent) site ( http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/bgguide.htm ) also documents another Con bonus not much discussed, which is the Fatigue Bonuses and penalties. This I'm pretty sure *is* implemented in BG, as my lower Con NPCs always get tired first
Hmmm, good luck getting 19 str, 18 dex, 19 con and decent Wisdom through a normal roll though
Well, quite... For a Cleric/Thief, even for a half-orc, there's still not much reason to go >16 con, though more so for a Gnome, as gets an extra +1 to spell/wand saves at 18
Well yea, I made a 19 str, 18 dex, 19 con, 4 int, 18 wis, 4 cha just now.
I couldn't RP a CHARNAME that stupid and ugly though, and don't like to drop INT below 8 or 9, as you can't even read scrolls below INT 9... Also makes you very vulnerable to those monsters that attack your INT (mind flayers?)
With those rolls, for a half-orc cleric/thief I probably would've gone with something more like:
19 str, 18 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 17 wis, 5 cha
As the Con tome is dead easy to get early on with a thief under sanctuary in BG1, and Wis is easy to raise with Tomes, and Int can be raised (eventually) to 9 with a Tome
BTW there is not a huge amount of difference between Str 19 and Str 20 (primarily just +1 damage, To Hit remains at +3), which is why I was saying a Gnome with Str 18 plus a Tome is perhaps a better bet than a half-orc, because of their other benefits.
Color Spray is great at lower levels, but after about level 7, it starts getting pretty useless. Just make sure not to knock out your own party members. I did that once by accident. It was not fun.
I just tried something really quick on a sorceror for the fun of it ...
Simulacrum, spider spawn and polymorph self. Summon simulacrum, precast polymorph self, summon a huge sword spider army with yourself and your simulacrum, polymorph both to sword spider.
Absolutely massive spider army FTW and I killed Gorion.
Gonna have to try that again with 6 sorcerors and make a video - absolutely massive spider army .
Comments
I don't see much point to using a Fighter-Mage to begin with unless one wishes to use both fighting skills and spellcasting in combination...
If you're going to melee with a F-M you'll need to spend a spell slot on Armor, which basically lasts for a full waking cycle in the game. Various enchanted items reduce AC as well. And Find Familiar will also boost HP.
Just how to combine spells and martial combat is a matter of taste, I guess.
There's something inherently risky about trying to spellcast during melee, so myself, I go with that and see what I can achieve. You do end up wasting some spells that get interrupted from successful hits by the enemy, but that's all part of the gamble.
I get a kick out of using Ghoul Touch and Vampiric Touch in the midst of melee. And early on I find it fun to use Color Spray (spell effect is neat), although you can easily end up knocking out your own party members if they fall within the cone. I sort of like using Lighting in melee as well, although that too is living a little dangerously re: causing friendly fire casualties. Agannazar's Scorcher is safer in that respect.
A F-M could also use a wand of paralyzation in combat. Ditto for wands of sleep and horror. But that feels a little cheap to me, somehow.
As for casting spells like Sleep, Horror, Glitterdust, Hold Person, Charm Person, etc., I tend to cast those first from the rear at the battle's onset, then rush in to melee and cast spells in the thick of combat.
I guess a F-M could also use bow and arrow (or darts of stunning) from a distance, along with the usual mage spells. Darts of stunning could be used in melee too, though, which could add another interesting dimension.
- Cast Shapechange: Mindflayer and Timestop, then intelligence drain everything to death.
- Combine Simulacrum and Spelltrap to replenish your own spells.
- Use Limited Wish to 'Summon a horde to overrun your enemies' then Wish to cast ADHW on every creature (I'm pretty sure this ADHW isn't friendly so protect yourself first!)
- For Cleric/thieves, Cast Righteous Magic, Shapechange: Iron Golem (from a scroll) then Assassination. I believe Iron Golem fists do 4d10+4 damage. Enjoy!
Its also a perfect support character for a party full of dual classers, so you always have healing and thief skills available.
A Gnome meanwhile gets the shorty Con bonus saves for spells/wands (but not poison/death) plus the handy racial thief bonuses. The BG2 gnome paperdoll and avatar are terrible, though, so I hope 1pp changes that in BGEE... And being able to find/disable traps and open locks under Sanctuary is great :-)
Can you also backstab from sanctuary like you can from invisible?
The gnome saves and thief bonuses are quite a help too, perhaps better than +1 STR. The Half-Orc can have 19 Con, but that is irrelevant for a non-fighter class Unfortunately not, but you can scout traps with sanctuary, and when you spot enemies hide in shadows, STAB, then enter sanctuary, safely move out of the area, and hide again and repeat, in theory, though casting time for Santuary is 4, which might be a little slow.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/76828432/AD-D-Player’s-Handbook-2nd-Edition-revised-TSR-2159
15=+1hp/lvl
16=+2hp/lvl
17=+3hp/lvl to Fighters/Rangers/Paladins ONLY (as well as any multiclass combo involving these classes) +2 to everyone else
18=+4hp/lvl (+2 to non-warriors)
19=+5hp/lvl (+2 to non-warriors) (+1 save vs poison/death)
then:
20: 1 hp/6 rounds (+1 save vs poison/death)
21: 1 hp/5 rounds (+2 save vs poison/death)
22: 1 hp/4 rounds (+2 save vs poison/death)
23: 1 hp/3 rounds (+3 save vs poison/death)
24: 1 hp/2 rounds (+3 save vs poison/death)
25: 1 hp/round (+4 save vs poison/death)
NB: only Dwarves and Halflings enjoy a better Save vs. Death for a high CON score.
higher con grants increased regen and greater poison bonuses, and an increase of hp IIRC +1hp/3 points of con)
constitution HP bonuses only count for HD levels (1-9 for warriors/priests
1-10 for thieves/bards/mages)
Regeneration through Constitution is not cumulative: If you are under the effect of a spell, potion, or item that grants Regeneration, the computer ignores all Regen rates except the highest one. The only ways to stack Regeneration is to equip 2 or more items that grant the same Regen rate, or to take a Regenerating character and cast Improved Haste (BG2 spell) on it.
This (excellent) site ( http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/bgguide.htm ) also documents another Con bonus not much discussed, which is the Fatigue Bonuses and penalties. This I'm pretty sure *is* implemented in BG, as my lower Con NPCs always get tired first
With those rolls, for a half-orc cleric/thief I probably would've gone with something more like:
19 str, 18 dex, 15 con, 8 int, 17 wis, 5 cha
As the Con tome is dead easy to get early on with a thief under sanctuary in BG1, and Wis is easy to raise with Tomes, and Int can be raised (eventually) to 9 with a Tome
BTW there is not a huge amount of difference between Str 19 and Str 20 (primarily just +1 damage, To Hit remains at +3), which is why I was saying a Gnome with Str 18 plus a Tome is perhaps a better bet than a half-orc, because of their other benefits.
Simulacrum, spider spawn and polymorph self. Summon simulacrum, precast polymorph self, summon a huge sword spider army with yourself and your simulacrum, polymorph both to sword spider.
Absolutely massive spider army FTW and I killed Gorion.
Gonna have to try that again with 6 sorcerors and make a video - absolutely massive spider army