non-Mages weak in SCS... what am I missing?

Baldurspawn

By now I am in the Underdark, but all my chars without any kind of arcane power die like moths in an open flame...
Lord_Tansheron's opinion is, more fighter-types are better, but pure fighters seem like they cant survive a pebble thrown at their toe in anything harder than below core-difficulty setting...
My ranger/cleric is in constant need of babysitting and I need to keep her out of any group, my Berserker and Inquisitor cant survive anything harder than bandits...
What am I missing in terms of tactics and such???

Lord_Tansheron

Baldurspawn said:

Lord_Tansheron's opinion is, more fighter-types are better, but pure fighters seem like they cant survive a pebble thrown at their toe in anything harder than below core-difficulty setting...

That's why I'm also always saying not to use PURE Fighters, but hybrids. I haven't used a pure Fighter in like years - I always have them either in dual or multi-class setups (or true hybrid, in the case of Archer/Paladin).

As for your setup, Ranger/Cleric can be made very tanky, so it shouldn't require babysitting by any means. Have you considered using a more defensive setup? Slap a shield on, get some good buffs going, all that. Inquisitor should also not exactly be squishy with the heavy plate and easy access to buffs like Armor of Faith.

Are you only using those 3 characters?

Baldurspawn

I have a full party, Kensai-Mage, Swash-Mage, Skald, Berserker (not yet mage), Inquisitor, Ranger/Cleric.
I use a defensive spell setup, dealing mostly physical damage, but aside from my overexaggeration with the bandits, any kind of real damage leaves me severely crippled...

Kurona

Berserkers are consistently good throughout a SCS game, especially dwarves, so if yours die all the time, you may want to check his equipment. Contrary to popular belief AC isn't useless until the big fights of Throne of Bhaal (or dragons) and AC is the only real protection of pure fighters against physical damage. You aren't at the level where you can dual-wield flails and pump out Hardiness like candies so keep a shield.

Inquisitor is probably a poor choice in such a caster-heavy party. Their super-dispel will cripple you unless you aim very precisely and they lose all access to divine casting (so no Armor of Faith to mitigate damage).

semiticgoddess

I think it would help if you told us how exactly your characters were dying. When your party members died, who were you fighting? And which party members died?

Other things that could help explain what's going on: What difficulty are you playing? What level is your party? And what kind of equipment or spells are you using?

BG2 is a complex game, especially with SCS. There are all kinds of ways to die.

Baldurspawn

All members are at 1.5mil exp, protective spells mostly, some debuffs... dying against everything but low mobs... elemental portals meant death to Berserker and inquisisitor, Sahuagin meant death to these two and my Ranger/cleric. for example ^^

Kurona

Baldurspawn said:

All members are at 1.5mil exp, protective spells mostly, some debuffs... dying against everything but low mobs... elemental portals meant death to Berserker and inquisisitor, Sahuagin meant death to these two and my Ranger/cleric. for example ^^

Do you have aTweaks installed? SCS elementals aren't much different from vanilla, it just puts a lot near the portals. If you do have aTweaks, then yes -- elemental portals will shred fighters in seconds without proper strategy (especially earth and air). If you're dealing with vanilla elementals however, as long as you stack AC on your fighters they shouldn't die all that much. Good armor, shields and casting Improved Invisibility on them help considerably.

Improved Sahuagin is an optional component and it makes them strong. Their strategy boils down to stunning your guys with crossbow bolts so they can kill them easily. You need good saving throws and preferably outright stun protection: Berserker rage, Protection from Evil (raises both AC and saving throws against them, since they are evil), Free Action, Defensive Harmony (they can't stun you if your AC is too low for them to hit). You'll still have do deal with their priestesses (Cleric/Mages iirc) who probably will dispel your buffs.

Generally speaking, fighters are heavily gear-dependant. If you feel your fighters are dead weight and they don't happen to be painfully underlevelled, it's almost always a matter of giving them the right equipment. Also don't forget potions! It's a good idea to give fighters invisibility potions: if they lose health faster than you can heal them, turning invisible to disengage and heal can save them.

Baldurspawn

Thank you, will try your tips now

UnderstandMouseMagic

I find the fighters are always the most difficults to keep alive. Even when OP, it seems it's sheer physical damage that causes the most grief, so mob fights, a nightmare.
My last run, SCS/insane, the only fight I just couldn't do on that level was Sendai, not because of magic but the Drow fighters chunking my fighters.

Take the Sahaugin fight for instance, why are your fighters even in the front line at the beginning? Use summons, 5 skeleton warriors up front to take the edge off, ranged attacks to cut numbers down and only really engage when you have to.
And that's after you have had your mages throw out some AOE spells stealthily before they get to you, web to cut the numbers down, Cloud Kill to get some damage in or even kill a few, confusion, fear ect. to disrupt the attack.

Always use haste, even if it means extra resting, for mob fights. Always buff, (the summons as well), always have an escape route for a fighter to move away and heal. Keep throwing out magic, Malison in particular to bring down saving throws, emotion ect., use your wands, paralyse/sleep/fear (money is not a problem, keep them recharged). And pause, pause, pause, and read what's happening, are their weapons actually doing damage? Swap weapons for different enemies.

My experience says that regardless of AC (though very important) if you have fighters slogging it out blow for blow, they are going to end up quite dead unless you have really worked the odds in your favour.

Good luck.

Lord_Tansheron

If you're struggling defensively, adopt a more defensive style. Either tank outright with a character suited for it (shield + buffs helps, Stoneskin/Ironskin is easy mode) or do things like kite around enemies to minimize the damage they deal. With enough micro control, you can effectively disable a lot of enemy heavy hitters while you pick off priority targets.

If you just right-click charge in, don't be surprised if things keel over. There is more to combat than going in with the right equipment.