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SCS - Random Ramblings

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  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 918

    To clarify, the point is not one of play style, but of encounter design. He's a spellcaster; but is apparently so unbalanced that the ideal/common tactic is to rob him of his ability to cast spells at the party. In which case, isn't it worth asking why he's set up as a spellcaster in the first place? Just change him to a fighter and let players skip the tedious process of waiting out his spells.

    Or, alternatively, make him a spellcasting enemy which is reasonable to confront and fight as, in fact, an appropriately challenging spellcasting enemy.

    Nothing wrong with that. If I would end up in a fist fight or something similar, a good tactic is to dodge your opponent and tire him out, or wait until he is in some other fashion weakend. The same thing applies here, I wait and parry enemy attacks until I get the upper hand. It's not lame. It may take a little longer than throwing a couple of skull traps on your regular enemy. Personally I feel good about killing these kinds of enemies.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,918

    To clarify, the point is not one of play style, but of encounter design. He's a spellcaster; but is apparently so unbalanced that the ideal/common tactic is to rob him of his ability to cast spells at the party. In which case, isn't it worth asking why he's set up as a spellcaster in the first place? Just change him to a fighter and let players skip the tedious process of waiting out his spells.

    As I said earlier I don't believe he is particularly unbalanced. Yes, he can be a dangerous opponent, but so can lots of encounters in that dungeon - golems, vampires, Firkraag himself can all make mincemeat of parties in no time if you don't use appropriate tactics. Apart from waiting out spells, there are lots of other viable strategies against Ruhk, e.g. spreading a party and using kiting / missiles, sending in summons to drain spells, buffing a single party member to take him on, stealth shots, using non-magical special abilities etc. Nerfing the encounter so that you only need to use basic run up and whack him over the head tactics doesn't seem required to me ...

    JuliusBorisovRelSundanCrevsDaakKurona
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,129
    edited February 2017
    Another way might be to pickpocket him for the ring of fire resistance if he starts out blue and then use potions of fire breath + kill the kobolds?

    One does sometimes wish for a button to accelerate time if waiting out a buff...but it rarely feels satisfactory. Not many BG battles have a time factor either, unless continuous respawning is enabled- SCS does this in some places.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
  • ArizaelArizael Member Posts: 263
    What Ardanis said. For me, the main appeal of SCS is that forces you to have backup strategy and adjust to the enemies. When the player is gladly, on daily basis, memorizing spells like Gust of wind or Remove paralysis instead of "moar dps", the design was done right.

    Also bear in mind that certain encounters can vastly differ in difficulty depending on your party compositions. If you have several casters including multiclasses, you will obviously have troubles with Rakshasas and other magically immune enemies, that hit hard.

    That said from my memory the main problems with Rakshasas were bugs - that is doubled APR and not working consistent breach component. Once you fixed the usual tactics of breach, true seeing and sword meets evil worked pretty well.

  • CyberDirectorFreedomCyberDirectorFreedom Member Posts: 13

    Also how does he have grandmastery? Whether an 18th level transmuter or a 15th level fighter/mage, he should be limited to specialization... seems to me that should mean 2.5 APR total.

    Heh, I use a Multi-Class Grandmastery mod. I always forget that it's not just how the game works (Multi-classes with Fighters are the only ones with any such restriction; you're not limited to only have 60% in your Thief skills, or level 7 as your maximum spell level, etc.). Though, that doesn't explain why he'd have Grandmastery as a Mage class (and even if he did, he shouldn't have more attacks, as only Fighters get those). Either way, without True Grandmastery, 2.5 APR would be the highest he should have.
    Ardanis said:

    A game that doesn't feature overwhelmingly difficult opponents popping up every once in a while, whom you can't really take head on and are forced to utilize underhanded methods, is repetitive and boring in my opinion.

    Whilst I agree, I disagree that this particular enemy should fall into the overwhelmingly difficult category. It doesn't make sense. Why is he subservient to Firkraag? Why does he bother with the transmutations? If it were Firkraag who were upsettingly powerful, I wouldn't have had a problem.
    Ardanis said:

    To put it the other way, balancing encounters to perfection belongs to the same school of thought that gave birth to auto levelling enemies to always match the player. Hopefully I don't need to explain what's wrong with that and how it can turn gameplay into monotonous grind.

    I don't think anyone's saying that every enemy in the game has to be perfectly balanced; some fights should always be harder than others, of course, but just not this one.

  • kjeronkjeron Member Posts: 2,242
    I think it would be best if all creatures had their APR field set to 1. If they need more APR when using natural attacks(claw/bite/etc.), put it on the items, as was done with Wilson.

    What's just as bad is creatures with PC classes that use arbitrarily set AC, THAC0, and Saving Throw values, rather than values appropriate to their level or equipment, especially if it then stacks with said equipment.

    semiticgoddessCrevsDaak
  • AasimAasim Member Posts: 591
    Grond0 said:



    As I said earlier I don't believe he is particularly unbalanced. Yes, he can be a dangerous opponent, but so can lots of encounters in that dungeon - golems, vampires, Firkraag himself can all make mincemeat of parties in no time Nerfing the encounter so that you only need to use basic run up and whack him over the head tactics doesn't seem required to me ...

    I couldn't agree more...

    Grond0CrevsDaak
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,305

    Also how does he have grandmastery? Whether an 18th level transmuter or a 15th level fighter/mage, he should be limited to specialization... seems to me that should mean 2.5 APR total.

    in pnp rakshasa and rukh have 3apr

    pure caster and 3apr is correct. but grandmastery in any weapon isn't
    fighter/mage technically isn't correct but rukh is a warrior subtype of rakshasa so it's an okay choice

    as a rakshasa he should always use a lot of spells, especially this one who is explicitly a transmuter. rakshasa casting ability isn't excessively high, normal rakshasa shouldn't cast spells above level6 and rukh as a higher tier above lvl7, but since he's a melee focused subtype i'd limit him to lvl6 too

    semiticgoddess
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881

    Ardanis said:

    A game that doesn't feature overwhelmingly difficult opponents popping up every once in a while, whom you can't really take head on and are forced to utilize underhanded methods, is repetitive and boring in my opinion.

    Whilst I agree, I disagree that this particular enemy should fall into the overwhelmingly difficult category. It doesn't make sense. Why is he subservient to Firkraag? Why does he bother with the transmutations? If it were Firkraag who were upsettingly powerful, I wouldn't have had a problem.
    If you can't defeat the Ruhk, then you have absolutely no chance against Firkraag. His SCS version is far, far more dangerous. Though ultimately you don't have to kill either of them in order to finish the quest.

    Grond0semiticgoddessCrevsDaak
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    Ardanis said:

    A game that doesn't feature overwhelmingly difficult opponents popping up every once in a while, whom you can't really take head on and are forced to utilize underhanded methods, is repetitive and boring in my opinion.

    To put it the other way, balancing encounters to perfection belongs to the same school of thought that gave birth to auto levelling enemies to always match the player. Hopefully I don't need to explain what's wrong with that and how it can turn gameplay into monotonous grind.

    Being especially difficult is one thing, being especially difficult by breaking the rules of the game because he gets bonuses that his class and level shouldn't have is another.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,918
    edited March 2017
    I'm not sure he does break any rules - perhaps just a slight bending: :p
    - his base APR is that of a rakshasa (as it should be).
    - if he were a multi-classed party member I agree he wouldn't be able to achieve grandmastery in the standard game (though there are mods that permit that to happen anyway). I wouldn't expect that all monsters would be bound by the same rules though, even assuming that he's not dual-classed ...
    - remember that even the standard game is stuffed full of NPCs who 'break the rules of the game' in multiple ways relating to stats, proficiencies, special abilities, class choices etc. That's because they're unique individuals - as is this Ruhk.

    CrevsDaakJuliusBorisovAasim
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,129
    Ruhk is such an odd case that he's almost worthy of having a quest associated with him, plenty of possibilities for a transmuter.

    CrevsDaak
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Kurona said:

    Ardanis said:

    A game that doesn't feature overwhelmingly difficult opponents popping up every once in a while, whom you can't really take head on and are forced to utilize underhanded methods, is repetitive and boring in my opinion.

    Whilst I agree, I disagree that this particular enemy should fall into the overwhelmingly difficult category. It doesn't make sense. Why is he subservient to Firkraag? Why does he bother with the transmutations? If it were Firkraag who were upsettingly powerful, I wouldn't have had a problem.
    If you can't defeat the Ruhk, then you have absolutely no chance against Firkraag. His SCS version is far, far more dangerous. Though ultimately you don't have to kill either of them in order to finish the quest.
    The difference is, Firkraag is by far one of the most easily cheesable enemies in the game. The Ruhk Transmuter is... Rather hard to cheese.

  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    edited March 2017
    CrevsDaak said:

    The difference is, Firkraag is by far one of the most easily cheesable enemies in the game. The Ruhk Transmuter is... Rather hard to cheese.

    Like with every spellcasting enemy not encountered in an enclosed space, you can cheese easily by leaving the area every time he starts casting a spell until he has nothing left. Even if you don't do this you can run around like a chicken because unlike Firkraag he doesn't move at supersonic speed.

    That's boring, sure. Stacking a bunch of traps at Firkraag's feet while he's neutral is boring too, and you can't even do it anymore with SCS.

    Even putting aside Big F what do you find further in his lair? Vampires. SCS Vampires are cheap. Really cheap. Tactics-level cheap. Not to mention Conster, the mandatory end boss who can pepper your party with ADHW and summon Fiends.

    Really, the Ruhk is just a warning. You want a true unfair fight look at Ihtafeer.

  • RelSundanRelSundan Member Posts: 918
    Conster barely hurt me. Thanks to My seducer aka new wizard slayer?

    semiticgoddessCrevsDaak
  • DavidWDavidW Member Posts: 817
    CrevsDaak said:

    Kurona said:

    Ardanis said:

    A game that doesn't feature overwhelmingly difficult opponents popping up every once in a while, whom you can't really take head on and are forced to utilize underhanded methods, is repetitive and boring in my opinion.

    Whilst I agree, I disagree that this particular enemy should fall into the overwhelmingly difficult category. It doesn't make sense. Why is he subservient to Firkraag? Why does he bother with the transmutations? If it were Firkraag who were upsettingly powerful, I wouldn't have had a problem.
    If you can't defeat the Ruhk, then you have absolutely no chance against Firkraag. His SCS version is far, far more dangerous. Though ultimately you don't have to kill either of them in order to finish the quest.
    The difference is, Firkraag is by far one of the most easily cheesable enemies in the game. The Ruhk Transmuter is... Rather hard to cheese.
    But the Ruhk accepts SCS philosophy, and so isn't willing to use cheesy methods to defeat Firkraag :)

    Grond0CrevsDaak
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153
    Kurona said:

    CrevsDaak said:

    The difference is, Firkraag is by far one of the most easily cheesable enemies in the game. The Ruhk Transmuter is... Rather hard to cheese.

    Like with every spellcasting enemy not encountered in an enclosed space, you can cheese easily by leaving the area every time he starts casting a spell until he has nothing left. Even if you don't do this you can run around like a chicken because unlike Firkraag he doesn't move at supersonic speed.

    That's boring, sure. Stacking a bunch of traps at Firkraag's feet while he's neutral is boring too, and you can't even do it anymore with SCS.

    Even putting aside Big F what do you find further in his lair? Vampires. SCS Vampires are cheap. Really cheap. Tactics-level cheap. Not to mention Conster, the mandatory end boss who can pepper your party with ADHW and summon Fiends.

    Really, the Ruhk is just a warning. You want a true unfair fight look at Ihtafeer.
    Conster is fodder once you Breach him (besides he isn't immune to low level spells), and Vampires aren't immune to being entertained with Skeleton Warriors while you blast them from existence with Skull Traps. Ihtafeer is much harder, yes, which is why I always pick it up way later, while on the other hand I usually do Firkraag's Dungeon really early on, so I usually have only level 5 and maybe one or two level 6 spells, which means I can only damage the Ruhk in melee/ranged combat.

  • comebackhomecomebackhome Member Posts: 254
    Is it just me or did someone mention that he's only using a non magical long sword therefore wouldn't protection from normal weapons render him useless in melee making him only formidable with spells?

    CrevsDaaksemiticgoddess
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881

    Is it just me or did someone mention that he's only using a non magical long sword therefore wouldn't protection from normal weapons render him useless in melee making him only formidable with spells?

    Whoever told you that is right. Most Rakshasas use normal weapons.

    CrevsDaaksemiticgoddess
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