Solo Opinions
Wandering_Ranger
Member Posts: 175
Long-time players of the game have more than likely challenged themselves with a solo run.
After perusing the various threads addressing this topic, it seems to be the consensus of the general community that the following three classes present the most difficult solo challenge:
- Wizard Slayer
- Druid (any kit)
- Beastmaster
I don't see how Druid could possibly be hardest, since they have great summons, healing, and good offensive/defensive options.
Wizard Slayer I can definitely see because it can't use any magical items aside from weapons and armour, but the usage of these is enough to have a great Thac0 and AC, making you a formidable warrior. There are many amazing weapons and armour to be found, and the wizard slayer has access to all of these. Not to mention they can achieve grand mastery in weapons. BG1 would be a cakewalk, and I don't foresee many problems for the class until ToB.
Beastmaster, on the other hand just seems impossible beyond BG1 (and even there it would be a challenge). I've done several solo runs, but never with this class. It has severe weapon and armour restrictions, it can't cast druid spells beyond level 3 (and only a handful of spells at that). Its "strength" is the fact that it can summon animals, but these spells are really bad. If it could cast "conjure animals" for example, it would be really good, because those bears are powerhouses. But it can't. It can only cast Animal Summoning I, II, and III. These animals are weak and will get one-shotted most of the time by enemies. Thieves could be said to be in a similar position, but they can do a crazy amount of damage via backstab, can set traps and disarm them, as well as finding lots of great items via their lockpick/pickpocket ability. They even get "use ANY item" at later levels, making them close to overpowered.
The only utility Beastmaster has is stealth and a few weak spells. They can only specialise in weapons. Only leather armour. Only non-metal weapons.
Has anyone done such a run? What items did you use? What advice can be given?
After perusing the various threads addressing this topic, it seems to be the consensus of the general community that the following three classes present the most difficult solo challenge:
- Wizard Slayer
- Druid (any kit)
- Beastmaster
I don't see how Druid could possibly be hardest, since they have great summons, healing, and good offensive/defensive options.
Wizard Slayer I can definitely see because it can't use any magical items aside from weapons and armour, but the usage of these is enough to have a great Thac0 and AC, making you a formidable warrior. There are many amazing weapons and armour to be found, and the wizard slayer has access to all of these. Not to mention they can achieve grand mastery in weapons. BG1 would be a cakewalk, and I don't foresee many problems for the class until ToB.
Beastmaster, on the other hand just seems impossible beyond BG1 (and even there it would be a challenge). I've done several solo runs, but never with this class. It has severe weapon and armour restrictions, it can't cast druid spells beyond level 3 (and only a handful of spells at that). Its "strength" is the fact that it can summon animals, but these spells are really bad. If it could cast "conjure animals" for example, it would be really good, because those bears are powerhouses. But it can't. It can only cast Animal Summoning I, II, and III. These animals are weak and will get one-shotted most of the time by enemies. Thieves could be said to be in a similar position, but they can do a crazy amount of damage via backstab, can set traps and disarm them, as well as finding lots of great items via their lockpick/pickpocket ability. They even get "use ANY item" at later levels, making them close to overpowered.
The only utility Beastmaster has is stealth and a few weak spells. They can only specialise in weapons. Only leather armour. Only non-metal weapons.
Has anyone done such a run? What items did you use? What advice can be given?
1
Comments
Interesting that you mention a Beastmaster, as @Borco has just decided to go with a solo Beastmaster in a no-reload attempt after the poll here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/63487/which-class-would-like-to-see-in-the-no-reload-thread.
As for the most difficult choice, I suggest looking at this thread: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30508/which-is-the-most-difficult-solo-single-class-kit-or-no-kit-for-bg-saga
To me, a Wizard Slayer wouldn't be easier than a Beastmaster, as all those potions and consumable items are really the difference both in BG1 and BG2. We've had a documented attempt about solo WS by @Blackraven from Candlekeep to the Watcher's Keep (it ended there).
In what areas would consumables make a difference to overcome the poor armour and weapon choices of the Beastmaster as compared to the Wizard Slayer? I can certainly imagine very particular scenarios like Kangaxx and using the anti-undead protection scroll, but on a consistent basis I just can't see how a Beastmaster would be better than a Wizard Slayer.
I've soloed BGT no-reload with a WS and I would say that ToB is actually the easiest part of the trilogy, not the most difficult. The WS vulnerability is less in melee than defending against magic and progress becomes more straightforward once you've got magic resistance over 100%.
Incidentally you referred to the use of PfU scrolls. Note that the WS can use green scrolls and that makes a considerable difference. The PfM scrolls in BG1 and the PfU scrolls in BG2 are particularly useful.
Wizard Slayers are just underrated. Actually, the hardest part for me is early game SoA, since in ToB you should have at least 98% MR, or more if you're playing with WSR (which IMO makes WS a bit too powerful), and in SoA the threat of spellcasters of way higher level than you is more common than in ToB, and getting gold/xp in SoA is hard when you're low level. As the game goes on it starts getting easier and easier IMO. BG1 is a joke, like it always was with a Warrior class solo (except for Kensai/Beastmasters tbh).
Druids... Druids are hard. BG1 is tough depending on your setup (no SCS = free, with SCS it's rather harsh), SoA is ok except for the part in which you are level 13 and need to get to level 14, although if you're playing BG1 without the XP cap you get around a million just from BG1, and that's without putting SoD in question. As bengoshi said, the hardest for them is ToB. Their summons get you through SoA basically for free, and in ToB you need something else than summons because they'll get killed very easily. Shapeshifter is probably the worst after vanilla Druid (or before vanilla Druid, dunno), Avenger is pretty good, once you get past level 7 BG1 is a complete cakewalk (web+sword spider = free win), and has decent spell damage as well (Chromatic Orb, Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning) in mid BG1/early SoA. Totemic Druids are the best, their summons are great, specially at low levels, but much more in SoA/late BG1, when they get a good bunch of immunities and a rather large HP pool. Also, this http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/30553/the-tale-of-the-totemic-druid/p1, I'm not sure why @JuliusBorisov (AKA bengoshi) didn't link it, I think he's avoiding self-promotion. It proves how increasingly difficult ToB becomes for Druid as well.
@CrevsDaak I realise the weapon selection is not thatbad, but it is still very restricted, especially considering how many other great items they miss out on that Wizard Slayer can use.
The armour quality is horrendous. Beastmaster, at least in the early game, can use its familiar to dance around enemies while standing back and firing arrows. This is a particularly useful strategy to use until you have a few levels under your belt. This quickly becomes a non-option though, so other tactics will need to be used.
"Honestly, their only weakness is the Ranger's terrible high level XP progression and abilities, and the lack of good armour."
In other words, their only strength is the ability to use certain magic items.
As for druids, they just have so many useful abilities that I can't imagine it would be anywhere as difficult as BM and WS, but I suppose Borisov should know since he has done it.
As far as items go I used a reasonable range of weapons - particular favorites were FoA (not upgraded), Blackrazor and Answerer. Ras was helpful as a summons - for instance against dragons. Armor was essentially just plate. Shields were rarely used, though I think I used the reflection shield against the Fallen Solar at the Throne.
I think the Beastmaster negative points are not that bad. The armour restriction means you lose out on -3 AC if you were to compare the best leather to the best plate and many better players than I have pointed out that AC isn't important. Losing access to the DoE is a blow, but AoF and Hardiness means a decent period of time you'll have 65% DR and you could mix in the Orc leather armour I forget the name of, the Belt of Inertial Barrier and that helm that gives 50% blunt damage resistance to give yourself over 100% on blunt and missile damage. With your familiar in ToB, you'll get more HP than a Human barbarian, which is cool. And the weapon restrictions aren't too bad as has been pointed out above. On the other hand, what you get as a bonus isn't too great - the animal summons are cool, but will stop being useful in SoA. Still, not a terrible thing to have reserve bears if a quick escape is necessary and they do make the earlier parts of SoA easier. I'd guess that Shortbows are the way to go for the Gesen Bow, using a lot of hit and run tactics, but knowing you can still back it up in close combat with some of the excellent staves or indeed a club/dagger shield combo if AC still matters.
Druids I love even more. Particularly the Totemic and Shapeshifter. They are awesome in BG1 and if you pick your fights in good order to overcome the slow leveling then they quickly become mega at 15. Most of SoA can be overcome with fire elementals and constant Death Ward+Chaotic Commands up. The level 7 and HLAs are also awesome, and characterful. Admittedly, ToB is hard - the Totemic spirit animals aren't as good, albeit they are quick to summon. The Shapeshifter really intrigues me though, especially dualling to a fighter at level 15. You can pretty easily max out AC, elemental resistances and even have a hefty MR %. On the downside, the paws are not going to hit certain things at which point you need to rely on Ironskins to cover your woeful AC without armour. Still, I think there aren't too many solo fights that you won't be able to get through.
It's funny you mentioned rangers/druids, as those are usually my go-to classes as well (I'm an RP-er, and so they are right up my alley for thematic quality). However, unlike you, my favourite Druid is the Avenger, not because it is considered the best, but because it is the most militant of the lot, which I admire. I always wished you could somehow join Faldorn or have some other way or resolving her quest in SoA. It would be great is she was a recruitable NPC.
Shapeshifter I will agree with you on - that class is incredible. It never stops being useful. The only argument people use against it is "well, it's not as powerful as the other werewolves in game." So what?? That doesn't mean the Shapeshifter is bad.
I think the main problem people have with it is they don't know how to use it adequately. With most classes in the game, they have a specific role to fulfill - their speciality, their niche. The Shapeshifter's role actually changes and the player must be able to adapt to the change. In BG1, it is most useful to be used in shifted form, as another fighter. In BG2, the shifted form is still useful, though it drops off a bit before level 13, at which point you get the greater werewolf with its obscene armour class. Cast iron skins and shift, and you have a tank ready for any encounter.
During the "off-time" that the Shapeshifter has, simply use them as a caster. "It can't wear armour" people lament. Well, neither can mages! Shapeshifters when not shifted should be nowhere near the front lines. If attacked, Iron Skins should be sufficient to get them out of danger before the skins are used up.
In ToB, the Shapeshifter should be almost exclusively used as a caster, since its viability as a tank drops off due to AC not mattering much anymore (though occasionally, it can serve that role well, especially early ToB). In short, Shapeshifter is a 2-for-1 deal.
There are two things which annoy me about the class, and that is the GW should be +3 claws (not +2), and it should have at least some regeneration, even just 1hp per round. Aside from that, it's a great class.
The Avenger was my first kit play through when BG2 - loved it, favourite moment was when, having no metgame knowledge, I was ambushed by a vampire. It was destroying my party and I was out of options, as a last ditch attempt to do some damage, I cast a Chromatic Orb - instant death! Best.BG2.Moment. Real shame about the level 14 cap until ToB came out. Always liked Faldorn as well - and the idea of an aggressive approach to protection, but then I work in the environmental area, so no surprise there!
Same views on the Shapeshifter weaknesses, it doesn't seem to matter to me and you get a really competent fighter that is highly resistant so all is well! And the AC thing does make a difference imo - for instance going into the fire giant stronghold can be a painful encounter, but with the huge AC, Destroyer of Hills and the AC bonus from the Improved Invis spell in the improved CoR+2 for 23 rounds and you will not get hit enough to get through your stoneskins. The only time it really matters is some of the really tough encounters with dragons, demogorgon, final boss, which are relatively few and far between.
Dualling to a fighter really helps focus the Shapeshifter on tanking, which I like for its efficiency! But yeah, real shame the paws haven't been implemented properly...had they been though, I'd wonder if it is a little OP...
As for your avenger tale, see? They're a class made of pure gold! Totemic druid I've never gotten into, though they are certainly an improvement over the normal druid, since the shapeshifts for normal druids really suck. I literally cannot think of even one situation where they are useful in any way, shape, or form.
The druid shapeshifting is useful in BG1, but yeah...never been a fan. I was intrigued by some of the things you can do with the Avenger new forms, but I confess I haven't tested them...web and sword spider and there was something cool I read, but can't remember that you can do with a fire salamander. Still, level 10 at the end of BG1 is really impressive!
The Salamander is better in BG1 because it has haste (spider form gives no haste in BG1). It can shoot 3 fire bolts at a single target per day, which is useful for interrupting spells or killing trolls in a pinch.
Baby wyvern is pretty crap. It has a large form, which means navigation is impossible through doorways, and it has no special abilities aside from poison (however, unlike spider form, it offers the victim a chance to save).
That was before I started following the old BioWare forums. There I found my opinion challenged by @Alesia_B_H, who argued (and proved) that anyone who can use bows, wear shields and use potions is able to succeed.
Therefore, I totally agree with @CrevsDaak and @JasperRaith - a closer look reveals very solid and playable class for the entire sage.
Concerned about AC? There are many ways to mitigate exposure to range damage (including the use of shields) and you’ll have your helmet and deep HP pool to rely on in the event of crits. The reach and the speed factor of your staff will in turn make AC much less relevant in melee.
Available weapon pool gives you access to plenty of tactical ammunition (including darts) and stealth provides you with the means of using it effectively.
Could I get a familiar with group invisibility? Will I be able to summon fodder to eat out some enemy spells? Why yes - I like that. What about the druid spells, anything useful? You’re not a fighter/mage but I can think of few.
That said, the things that beast masters CANNOT do are - to a significant extent - irrelevant in the context of what they CAN do. Speaking of what we see as challenging, I, for instance, am terrified by Transmuter’s lack of abjuration spells ...
Goodness, I dread to think how one would handle that...I guess mirror image...summons, hmm, I wouldn't try it I have to say. That said Project Image is horrendously powerful and would at least give you extra spells and greater survivability. That and access to the Staff of the Magi. I wouldn't want to attempt a no reload challenge with that though!
@Wandering_Ranger you've sold me on the avenger, that sounds like a lot of fun in bg2
(OT: Is there any mirror of the BioWare forum content?)
Mages are a swiss army knife that can deal with practically anything. Tonnes of crowd control, tonnes of AoE damage, tonnes of great summons, tones of buffs/debuffs. Plus the Transmuter isn't without protections such as stoneskin, mirror image mislead, project image, simulacrum, and so forth. Sure, I would say that the lack of abjuration spells makes it more difficult, but I wouldn't put this class up there as comparable with solo druid, WS, or BM. It just has way too much at its disposal.
I may attempt this instead of a BM solo run, since everyone seems convinced that BM is not all that difficult to do, and I am looking for a challenge.
That being said, Alesia's opinion should be taken into account here. As Borco said: "That was before I started following the old BioWare forums. There I found my opinion challenged by @Alesia_B_H, who argued (and proved) that anyone who can use bows, wear shields and use potions is able to succeed," then shaman shouldn't be too hard. After all, it can use bows, wear bucklers, and use potions. Not to mention it uses the druid pool of spells and can spam summons due to having more casts per day.
edit: i think druids are fine, they have lots of options to success.
This is the reason I disagree that a WS would be a very challenging run. Many (steel) weapons and armour provide huge bonuses to the point they make the game a stroll through the woods. I suppose the BM can use some of these too, and perhaps their usage of potions/some items can make the game a bit easier situationally, but I can't see them packing the same punch as a full-plate-and-packing-steel warrior who has access to all these valuable sets of weaponry and armour.
Longbow / Melee Weapon & Shield
Locks? - No Problem
Traps? - No Problem
Stealth? - No Problem
Draw Upon Holy Might + Rings (forget about thief potions for a while
I know its cheesy, but its a legit kit
Very good, very fast, rarely pausing