P.S. I like the fact that Keldorn doesn't have a Bodhi abduction. I suppose it's because the variables are a nightmare but it gives a nice touch, I like to think of it as if she knows that she has no chance of turning him.
@Arvia Thank you very much for the kind words, I'll try to pass them on to berelinde.
That there is no Bodhi abduction is more because the romance is not really committed in SoA, I think, but your interpretation is a good one, too. (Scripting it is not such a huge problem, actually, with all the existing mods there is good templates how to do it without having to search through the game resources.)
@jastey I just discovered the Alternatives mod, I suppose this one is compatible? (Would be the only two mods installed) .
Does it matter which one I install first?
They are compatible, and it doesn't matter which order - for these two mods. In general, I'd suggest quest mods before NPC mods. The rule of thumb is:
-Fixpack
-Questmods
-NPC mods
-Tweak mods
So I have a bug, but you may have fixed it already and I might just have an old version.
Keldorn's reoccuring conversation that starts "Yes?" kept triggering over and over for me no matter how many times I did it. (It's the last one on the list of your dialogues, highest weight, in KeldorJ). I uninstalled the romance and what immediately triggered was a conversation starting with Keldorn speaking from another mod. Once that passed I reinstalled Keldorn Romance and I was fine.
Looking at NearInfinity the issue (best I can tell) is that when I installed the other mod after your mod the weight on the other mod's conversation is higher than your always true repeatable dialogue, so when the other conversation was set to trigger yours just triggered endlessly instead. So it could use some sort of qualifier.
@BCaesar there is not much I can do. The other mod needs to weight the dialogue accordingly so it can be called properly, i.e. a "WEIGHT #-1" needs to be added to the dialoge that was supposed to trigger.
That or Keldorn Romance needs to be installed after the other.
Which mod was it?
@BCaesar there is not much I can do. The other mod needs to weight the dialogue accordingly so it can be called properly, i.e. a "WEIGHT #-1" needs to be added to the dialoge that was supposed to trigger.
That or Keldorn Romance needs to be installed after the other.
Which mod was it?
The one that triggered it this time was the Mazzy one that Ratatoskr and I are doing, but the Imoen Romance has a conversation with Keldorn, Imoen, and CHARNAME that looks like it would do the exact same thing that ours did as it's an unweighted conversations with KeldorJ as the first speaker.
I don't have that many mods installed, and none of them other than the Keldorn romance are Keldorn based, but since there are plenty of mods that don't weight their conversations I bet there are others out there that would have the same conflict as well.
Ratatoskr will put a weight #-1 in ours, so that conflict at least will be solved, but that won't help any other mods.
If you habe a good solution what I can do in the Keldorn Romance mod then let me know. PID (player initiated dialogue) has to be an always true dialogue, so it needs to be installed last for one, and all other added dialogue need to be WEIGHTed. There is nothing I can do to make the engine skip the always-true PID dialogue because it's supposed to call another dialogue that is further down in the DLG without a weight.
It's imperative to put WEIGHT#-1 to any j-dialogue you add to a BioWare (BeamDog)'s NPC. It' s the same if you'd add scripted dialogue to another mod NPC that has PID.
@jastey I've looked and so far I don't see a good solution. The NPC flirtpack has a similar issue and the readme says they weighted their PID talks to the bottom to avoid it, but I can't actually see that in their code.
I'll adjust the Keldorn talks in our mod to try to fix BCaesar's bug. However according to the Weidu docs you can't use weights with Chain, only Append, and the whole section actually advises never using them so the issue may keep coming up with other mods. Our original Keldorn talks were coded with Chain instead of append since I find the former easier for banters, which is what started this whole issue.
The best solution I can think of is to add a disable trigger like the flirtpack has so people can manually turn off the PID talks if they hit this problem with another mod without losing the romance entirely. I doubt BCaesar or I will manage to come up with anything better since you know the engine in more detail, but we'll definitely let you know if we do.
You can use WEIGHT with CHAIN without problems.
The statement that the PID is weighted at the bottom can only be true for the mod itself. There is no way to weight a dialogue so it will be less weighted than any dialogue added later.
To use WEIGHT with CHAIN just do the following:
CHAIN
IF WEIGHT #-1
~[your conditions]~ THEN dlgname chainname
~Blabla.~
EXIT
Using a cheat variable to turn off the PID is an idea; I'd still be glad if modders would understand how this problem arises and that they need to WEIGHT their dialogues accordingly. If documentation is missing or misleading, then we should update it.
@jastey Thanks for that code; it will make life much easier. I'll fix our Keldorn talks for the next update.
Unless I'm misreading something, which is entirely possible, the section on stateWeights in the main Weidu documentation here http://www.weidu.org/~thebigg/README-WeiDU.html#WEIGHT is definitely misleading. It says both that weights are irrelevant for chains, which is clearly not true, and that you should avoid them unless you know what you're doing, which means most new modders will probably not use them.
It'd be great to get that updated but I don't know who to talk to about that. And since new modders will probably continuing making that mistake, the PID turn off cheat might be a good backup until everyone learns better. For now I'll fix ours at least.
You can use WEIGHT with CHAIN without problems.
The statement that the PID is weighted at the bottom can only be true for the mod itself. There is no way to weight a dialogue so it will be less weighted than any dialogue added later.
To use WEIGHT with CHAIN just do the following:
CHAIN
IF WEIGHT #-1
~[your conditions]~ THEN dlgname chainname
~Blabla.~
EXIT
Using a cheat variable to turn off the PID is an idea; I'd still be glad if modders would understand how this problem arises and that they need to WEIGHT their dialogues accordingly. If documentation is missing or misleading, then we should update it.
Thanks that'll make life much easier, since I'm sure Rataoskr is looking forward to her new job of going through the entire mod and sticking weights on all the dialogues that don't have them already.
Surprise fun, I just opened up Mazzy Friendship and it looks like none of the dialogues are weighted so I realized I better figure this out since we may add flirts to Mazzy Romance, and there's a good chance that anyone who likes Mazzy will install both (and could easily install that one second) in which case they'll have tons of friendship talks, every one of which will create a game-breaking conversation loop.
So I had an idea. I haven't tested this so there may be something I'm not thinking of, but lets say I'm coding Mazzy and I have flirts, I could make it that every time a flirt triggers it sets a 5 round timer (doesn't have to be five rounds, any short amount of time would do), that prevents any new flirt from triggering until that time is up.
That way my flirt will trigger once when a Mazzy Friendship conversation is supposed to trigger, but then because of the 5-round delay there will be time for the friendship conversation to trigger.
Blocking the PID for a certain amount of time will be annoying as hell to players who want to go through the klicktalk flirt menue. It will give "NPCx has nothing to say to you" in between, and probably "bug" reports of players on top.
Blocking the PID for a certain amount of time will be annoying as hell to players who want to go through the klicktalk flirt menue. It will give "NPCx has nothing to say to you" in between, and probably "bug" reports of players on top.
Hmm. Well I'll keep thinking about it since with the MazzyFriendship mod being well known we can't do flirts without fixing this. Luckily flirts weren't high on our priorities list, but still it'd be nice. I'll let you know if I think of something better.
@BCaesar One thing that would be possible is to put the PID into a seprarte component. This way, players have the possibility to install it, indeed, last, even after other mods. This and add a safety cheat variable to disable it temporarily. I'll note these down for the Keldorn Romance.
so i noticed a very odd bug with keldorn with this mod installed. if you tell him you don't want him to join your party he gets a no valid reply link and is just stuck in the sewers instead of walking back to the order building like he is supposed to. the only way i saw to fix this was haveing him join then when it gets to the party screen kick him out and then he will leave.
@megamike15 thanks, I'll have a look at it. Might well be noone with this mod ever refused him, heh.
Just to make sure, would you also post your weidu.log?
Hi @jastey , I have a quick question: by "reconciling with his wife" do you mean letting him leave for good (so I'm assuming that he'll come back) or picking the line "you've got one day with her"?
@DJKajuru , yes, you have to do his family quest, then when you talk to him at his house after his reconciliation with Maria, you let him leave for good. Then after a couple of days he will join you again and the mod content starts. BTW I have played it and really liked it.
@DJKajuru , yes, you have to do his family quest, then when you talk to him at his house after his reconciliation with Maria, you let him leave for good. Then after a couple of days he will join you again and the mod content starts. BTW I have played it and really liked it.
Thank you! I've followed your orientation and started doing some npc quests till keldorn comes back.
@DJKajuru , yes, you have to do his family quest, then when you talk to him at his house after his reconciliation with Maria, you let him leave for good. Then after a couple of days he will join you again and the mod content starts. BTW I have played it and really liked it.
Thank you! I've followed your orientation and started doing some npc quests till keldorn comes back.
If I remember correctly, he only joins you in Athkatla, but I might be wrong. So if he doesn't turn up after 5 days, you might want to return to the City if you're off in Umar Hills or something.
-first rest lovetalk in ToB should trigger outside of the Pocket Plane, too.
-added dynamic install order syntax and global labels to support Project Infinity.
Comments
That there is no Bodhi abduction is more because the romance is not really committed in SoA, I think, but your interpretation is a good one, too.
Does it matter which one I install first?
-Fixpack
-Questmods
-NPC mods
-Tweak mods
So I have a bug, but you may have fixed it already and I might just have an old version.
Keldorn's reoccuring conversation that starts "Yes?" kept triggering over and over for me no matter how many times I did it. (It's the last one on the list of your dialogues, highest weight, in KeldorJ). I uninstalled the romance and what immediately triggered was a conversation starting with Keldorn speaking from another mod. Once that passed I reinstalled Keldorn Romance and I was fine.
Looking at NearInfinity the issue (best I can tell) is that when I installed the other mod after your mod the weight on the other mod's conversation is higher than your always true repeatable dialogue, so when the other conversation was set to trigger yours just triggered endlessly instead. So it could use some sort of qualifier.
Thanks.
That or Keldorn Romance needs to be installed after the other.
Which mod was it?
The one that triggered it this time was the Mazzy one that Ratatoskr and I are doing, but the Imoen Romance has a conversation with Keldorn, Imoen, and CHARNAME that looks like it would do the exact same thing that ours did as it's an unweighted conversations with KeldorJ as the first speaker.
I don't have that many mods installed, and none of them other than the Keldorn romance are Keldorn based, but since there are plenty of mods that don't weight their conversations I bet there are others out there that would have the same conflict as well.
Ratatoskr will put a weight #-1 in ours, so that conflict at least will be solved, but that won't help any other mods.
It's imperative to put WEIGHT#-1 to any j-dialogue you add to a BioWare (BeamDog)'s NPC. It' s the same if you'd add scripted dialogue to another mod NPC that has PID.
I'll adjust the Keldorn talks in our mod to try to fix BCaesar's bug. However according to the Weidu docs you can't use weights with Chain, only Append, and the whole section actually advises never using them so the issue may keep coming up with other mods. Our original Keldorn talks were coded with Chain instead of append since I find the former easier for banters, which is what started this whole issue.
The best solution I can think of is to add a disable trigger like the flirtpack has so people can manually turn off the PID talks if they hit this problem with another mod without losing the romance entirely. I doubt BCaesar or I will manage to come up with anything better since you know the engine in more detail, but we'll definitely let you know if we do.
The statement that the PID is weighted at the bottom can only be true for the mod itself. There is no way to weight a dialogue so it will be less weighted than any dialogue added later.
To use WEIGHT with CHAIN just do the following:
CHAIN
IF WEIGHT #-1
~[your conditions]~ THEN dlgname chainname
~Blabla.~
EXIT
Using a cheat variable to turn off the PID is an idea; I'd still be glad if modders would understand how this problem arises and that they need to WEIGHT their dialogues accordingly. If documentation is missing or misleading, then we should update it.
Unless I'm misreading something, which is entirely possible, the section on stateWeights in the main Weidu documentation here http://www.weidu.org/~thebigg/README-WeiDU.html#WEIGHT is definitely misleading. It says both that weights are irrelevant for chains, which is clearly not true, and that you should avoid them unless you know what you're doing, which means most new modders will probably not use them.
It'd be great to get that updated but I don't know who to talk to about that. And since new modders will probably continuing making that mistake, the PID turn off cheat might be a good backup until everyone learns better. For now I'll fix ours at least.
@Ratatoskr
Thanks that'll make life much easier, since I'm sure Rataoskr is looking forward to her new job of going through the entire mod and sticking weights on all the dialogues that don't have them already.
Surprise fun, I just opened up Mazzy Friendship and it looks like none of the dialogues are weighted so I realized I better figure this out since we may add flirts to Mazzy Romance, and there's a good chance that anyone who likes Mazzy will install both (and could easily install that one second) in which case they'll have tons of friendship talks, every one of which will create a game-breaking conversation loop.
So I had an idea. I haven't tested this so there may be something I'm not thinking of, but lets say I'm coding Mazzy and I have flirts, I could make it that every time a flirt triggers it sets a 5 round timer (doesn't have to be five rounds, any short amount of time would do), that prevents any new flirt from triggering until that time is up.
That way my flirt will trigger once when a Mazzy Friendship conversation is supposed to trigger, but then because of the 5-round delay there will be time for the friendship conversation to trigger.
Hmm. Well I'll keep thinking about it since with the MazzyFriendship mod being well known we can't do flirts without fixing this. Luckily flirts weren't high on our priorities list, but still it'd be nice. I'll let you know if I think of something better.
Just to make sure, would you also post your weidu.log?
Thank you! I've followed your orientation and started doing some npc quests till keldorn comes back.
If I remember correctly, he only joins you in Athkatla, but I might be wrong. So if he doesn't turn up after 5 days, you might want to return to the City if you're off in Umar Hills or something.
Changelog:
-first rest lovetalk in ToB should trigger outside of the Pocket Plane, too.
-added dynamic install order syntax and global labels to support Project Infinity.
The new version fixes the chapter variables for all LTs in EET.
Changelog v8:
-Corrected use of EET compatible global chapter variables.
Changelog:
-Changed blackslashes to slashes in the tp2 (fix Linux install issues).