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Problem with choosing a thief for evil party (including mods)

Gonzo100100Gonzo100100 Member Posts: 26
I play BG2 with not too many but considerable number of mods. Anyway, I still can’t decide who should I put in thief slot after Yoshimo is gone. Currently I am in chapter 2 but this thought occupies my mind.
It is of the most importance to mention that I play evil party and that limits the freedom to pick any of the available candidates.
My thoughts are:

Hexxat: I couldn’t find any positive review of her everybody agrees about the dull and shallow writing so I’m not interested in her if there is any better option. Actually, at the moment I have her in my party and I have to say that I’m not impressed to say at least. I’m about to remove her to make room for Edwin most likely as he is about to become available.

Imoen: I played with her before, few years ago, so I don’t remember how good of the option she is. Especially for an evil party. Anyway, I read somewhere that she is very silent and doesn’t have anything interesting to say. However, I have many NPC related mods such as Imoen friendship and I wonder if she is interesting enough option for my party?

Jan: I never ever had him in my party and since its release I played BG2 4 or 5 times so I actually could take him but again, he is chaotic neutral and many neutral characters are good in essence, how about him? Will he fit into evil party? (Viconia, Dorn, Korgan)

Another question, can I add some NPC mods to my current install or it will ruin my game? I have installed most of NPC-related mods but only few of additional NPCs.

Also, I am enjoying a lot the Viconia Friendship mod (and there may be some other mods I have too). There is plenty of banters with her involvement and conversations with her are interesting and complex. In my party, she is the most interesting character.
(Viconia, Dorn, Korgan, Yoshimo, Hexxat - I am about to exchange Hexxat for Edwin)
I also have to acknowledge Yoshimo with his friendship mod but I know that he won’t stick around for long.

Could you recommend me an evil party – especially a thief (including or excluding mods) based on their content and how they get along with each other (the NPCs)? The question is not about the NPC’s stats of course but about the complexity of the relationships.
OrlonKronsteen

Comments

  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 278
    edited April 8
    Adding mods while already playing the game is not recommended, which limits your choices to Imoen and Jan Jansen. Both will fit an evil party - Imoen sticks with charname no matter what, and Jan isn't very inclined to play the hero (unlike Jaheira). Out of these two, Jan has more dialogues (at the very least his speeches are longer :D ).
    OrlonKronsteenThacoBellAerakarGonzo100100
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 276
    edited April 8
    I too am frustrated by the lack of an evil thief option in BG2, and would love to hear about evil thief mods. As chimaera says, Imoen and Jan will work. But Imoen regularly complains if your rep is low, which can detract from the 'band of villains' flavor one often wants on an evil run. Jan is phenomenal from a mechanics standpoint, but he's very silly and can also detract from the flavor of an evil run.
    Gonzo100100
  • Gonzo100100Gonzo100100 Member Posts: 26
    Somehow, I’m not at peace with my options so at the current time I am unable to say whom I will pick but I will try Jan in act 2 for some time and if his silliness will overwhelm me I will go with Imoen hoping that her friendship mod will make her a bit more interesting. Just wonder if I can be rude to her without any major consequences like her living the party or getting silent for the rest of the game.
    I actually had her in my team the whole time in BG1 because I felt that it will be in order to start the adventure as a quite normal 20 years old person raised by good and wise sage and gradually roleplay the character transformation towards being evil (that was in BG1). I thought it would be natural to be attached to Imoen but now as my character got much colder, Imoen is no longer considered as someone that requires a care of my PC.


    I have checked the NPC mods that I actually installed in my Big World Setup and I noticed Amber (chaotic good) which hardly is a candidate but wanted to ask about her nonetheless. What’s your opinion about her, I guess she is not an option for an evil party?
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 2,818
    I don't play evil parties but I do rotate party members a lot. I feel that Hexxat's writing is kind Mary Sue-ish, but in terms of power, she is the best thief in the game. Her quests, however, are quite fun and have some good rewards.
    Imoen will stick with you no matter what, but her only adequate thief skills are find locks and open traps.

    Jan is amazing and wonderful.The End
    AerakarGonzo100100
  • GallengerGallenger Member Posts: 315
    edited April 10
    Waaaaaaaaay back in the day, before Hexxat, if I wanted to go evil and didn't want Imoen or Jan, the secret is to simply play BG1 as a thief yourself - you have a trillion options on how to accomplish this, you could:

    Play a thief kit or play a thief multiclass or you could....


    Dual class from thief to xyz - It's really easy to dual out of thief with *just* your traps/locks leveled. Conventional wisdom apparently thinks this is a bad idea - but what is the drawback of not having to have a thief in the party *ever* again?

    Here are some baselines you can accomplish. Now, lets assume you're building specifically with a certain ring in mind:

    Dual at level 5 thief (10K xp wasted to thief) locks85/traps75 - you'll still be able to detect most things, and unlock almost everything, and only occasionally will you need a potion to help you, and once you get the ring you'll have 100% traps.

    Dual at level 4 thief AKA Nalia (5k XP wasted to thief - ie hardly anything, solo kill a basilisk and you've made it back + 2k xp). Traps can still make it to 75 - and thus with a certain ring you'll be at 100 eventually, but locks will get busted down to 60/75. However a potion of master thievery will still be enough for it to reach 100%, so you still should be able to handle most any lock.

    I wouldn't really recommend dual classing at level 3 (2.5k xp wasted to thief) because by then your lockpick skill will be nearly useless, OR you'll *still* require potions when detecting even after the ring (dangerous).

    Misc. Benefits:

    You will almost certainly have a few saves that benefit from those thief levels very slightly early on, you may also (if you intend to play a mage) benefit in the form of slightly higher HPs at the start of the game. You will also (depending on what class you go to next) be able to use some items you wouldn't otherwise be able to use (short bows etc), and you'll get a x3 backstab multiplier which could come in handy at some point.

    Just as a reminder, you'll be able to create any multi-class so you'll be able to dual into: Cleric, Mage, or Fighter.

    Drawbacks: You don't want the thief kits because of the decreased points they get per level, you also can't dual into a kit or some of the custom classes (without modding the character in EEkeeper or using a mod that frees up the dual classing). So, I'll gladly give up a spell slot as a mage to play with the party I want etc or some of the THAC0 I'd have as a fighter/cleric lol. And of course if you had your heart set on a specific non-thief multi-class that's gone too.


    For BG2, that frees you up to use the full evil boat: Dorn, Viccy, Edwin, Korgan + you, and CN Haer'Dalis (who is a tiefling IE part demon you know so... he fits quite well).


    As far as BG1 goes, it will kinda stink to play 3-5 levels of rogue, because you get Imoen and/or Monteron right off the bat, but it also means you won't need to take Imoen or Monteron.... If you hurry, you could even get to Tiax right before or right after you dual, which would mean he takes all the thief duties while you regain your skillz. But it could also be neat, because you could build your thieves to focus on stabbing things (much more viable in bg1) and not have to worry about trap/lock.










    Post edited by Gallenger on
    Gonzo100100
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 389
    edited April 10
    It really depends on what your party setup is and how you define "evil". If you define evil as acting like a vengeful psycho and murdering everyone in the streets, then your options are a lot more limited. You're basically down to Hexxat and Sarevok as Jan Jansen/Imoen leave if your reputation is very low.

    If your definition of evil is more me-me-and-selfish-me or just amoral, then you can add Imoen and Jan Jansen to that list. Your reputation is likely going to stick to low/average, and neither will leave at those values.

    Jan has a plenty of interactions with everyone, but his humor is rather hit-or-miss. Imoen has very few interactions, but her best bits are for good/evil NPC combinations. Hexxat has the unique ability to talk to the other NPCs and somehow make them respond out-of-character, but who knows, maybe you'll find her tolerable. Sarevok is obviously one of the coolest NPCs, but he's available late.

    You should just test out these NPCs yourself if you're interested in them.
    AerakarThacoBellGonzo100100
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    If you're going to dual away from Thief at low levels, it's better to focus on Find Traps instead of Open Locks. First, plenty of other classes can open locks, (Mages with Knock, Clerics with DUHM + bash), but nobody else can disarm traps.

    Second, if you have a low lockpicking score, you can always try it to see if it's sufficient, and if it's not just equip a ring / drink a potion and try again. If you have a find trap score that is insufficient to find a particular trap, though, there is no "try again".

    Humans with 19 dexterity, (from tomes, say), start with 10% find traps. Devote all of your points to it and you can have it maxed by level 3, taking all of 2500 XP. That'd be the fastest dual worth pursuing, I'd say. Go to level 4 and you can get 45% Open Locks, too, which jumps to 70% with the ring of lockpicking in BG2, which will let you handle most of the locks in the game while saving your Knock spells for the uncommon locks that are past your threshold. Go to level 5 and you're at 95% with the ring, which should actually be all you need (since there's a 5% window of grace when picking locks).

    I wouldn't dismiss the kits so quickly, either. Swashbuckler gets no penalties to thieving points, he just sacrifices the backstab multiplier, (which would only be x2 or x3 at such low levels, anyway). Assassin gets a major thieving skills penalty, but can still get 95% Find Trap by level 4 or 100% by level 5. You'd want to take either to 5 for the extra kit bonus, but two applications of poison or +2 AC / +1 Thaco and damage are sweet bonuses that will remain relevant throughout the saga. (I guess less so for the assassin with poison now scaling.)

    Swash(10) duals are all the hype, but Swash(5) duals are pretty solid, too. The biggest drawback is more the limits it places on the second class. (No kits, no shorty races, no multis, no Paladins, Rangers, Druids, Barbarians, Monks, Sorcerors, etc. Just plain vanilla Fighter, Cleric, or Mage.)
    AerakarGonzo100100
  • Gonzo100100Gonzo100100 Member Posts: 26
    All the above are good advices but I am not going to restart the game now. I played BG1 as kensai as I want to try out kensai13/mage. Currently I started to level up as mage and I am a bit disappointed when I think how long it will take to regain fighter abilities (as I thought I will be – but want to try it anyway) I think more climatic option would be to play as fighter/mage.


    I thought to dual class Sarevok when I get him in TOB if I would do that at lvl 17, it would take 1,760,000 xp to regain his fighter abilities. Anyhow it’s kind of tough decision because Sarevok is brilliant fighter as he get HLAs. In my opinion dual wielding fighter doesn’t need HLA as much as 2 handed weapon wielder.

    2 weapons = 1 base attack + ** proficiencies 0.5 attack + *****proficiencies 0.5 attack + lvl 7 fighter 0.5 attack + lvl 13 fighter 0.5 attack + 1 off hand attack + Belm 1 attack = 5 attacks x2 improved haste = 10 attacks – no need for Whirlwind attack

    2 handed weapons = 1 base + 0.5 for ** + 0.5 for ***** + 0.5 for lvl 7 + 0.5 for lvl 13 + 0.5 for Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization = 3.5 x 2 for improved haste = 7

    Well, not bad as well but I find going for HLAs much more useful here and again, it seems hard choice to dual class Sarevok.

    In the other hand thief could use Carsomyr… so… ehm, I don’t know. ;p

    As the final note, I write about all of that because I like to make the best what is possible of what I have. I don’t mind having a character in my party who is weak and making with him something what will make them better but I find difficult to take someone who is a beast like Sarevok is and make him weaker. So, I don’t think it’s worth to make a thief out of him but I am not sure.

    Anyway, I think Sarevok in TOB will take place of Imoen/Jan (if I decide to dual class him to thief) or other non-thief character I will decide is the least interesting (if I will make Sarevok a pure fighter), so maybe Dorn? Or Korgan? I can’t say right now. I find it an interesting option to sacrifice Dorn in hell at the end of SOA as he is the guy who always talk about betrayal.
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