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Did Beamdog Change the Nature of Torment?

As an original player of all these games, I purchased the BG1, BG2, and IWD enhanced editions when they first came out, directly through Beamdog. The BG1 and IWD EE editions were great, but some of BG2's changes were unsettling and disgusting. However, I purchased Siege of Dragonspear and was completely appalled. Luckily, Beamdog gave me my money back. I've read encouraging news that Beamdog parted ways with Amber Scott and Dee Pennyway. Beamdog seems to have gone out of their way to assert that they changed/added no new content in PST:EE as an attempt at winning back former fans like me, claiming it was the creative choice of Chris Avellone, but I realize that David Gaider is still creative director.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Leftist propaganda has no place in AD&D games. If the game has no political agenda weaved into it like Siege of Dragonspear did, I will buy it. The same goes for future content. I am hesitant and skeptical though. Is PST:EE truly a clean and proper update of the original game which honest Southern gentlemen like myself can play with dignity as we drink our mint juleps and listen to Dixie?



  • dockaboomskidockaboomski Member Posts: 434
    edited April 2017
    EDIT: Not trying to get another one of these threads going.

    PST:EE is the same game that it was in 1999, go ahead and buy it.

  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    To be fair it's a good port. This is coming from me. A miserable dick who is critical of beamdog previous releases.

  • ZuTheSkunkZuTheSkunk Member Posts: 16
    The closest I can think of in terms of gameplay changes is that the game appears to be more difficult than I remember, even on the lowest difficulty. At the very least, the Nameless One seems to be taking hits more easily than normal.

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,158
    As others have said, PST:EE is very faithful to the original game. I'd go as far as to say it is the most faithful to the original of all the Enhanced Editions, as content was pretty much left untouched with the exception of a copy-editing pass on the game's text and added ability descriptions.

    Basically you get the 1999 experience with no loading screens, a few convenience features, and high-resolution UI and font (which, in a text-heavy game like PS:T, are a godsend.)

  • QueegonQueegon Member Posts: 353
    I sincerely hope these questions and so-called problems with Beamdog games die out after PS:T:EE.

    I couldn't care less about it myself. I didn't even notice it in SoD before the shitstorm that followed.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 5,457
    All kinds of people exist and sometimes your agenda may feel comfortable, sometimes not.

  • TeflonTeflon Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 517

    There may still be some leftist characters and ideas in the game though ... I'm so disappointed they were not removed and I'll potentially be on a crusade to get the word out.

    Can you locate me who is that lefty dude? :p I need to talk to that NPC.
    And I even fear that translator censored it out :o

  • Wulf2kWulf2k Member Posts: 27
    Teflon said:

    Can you locate me who is that lefty dude? :p I need to talk to that NPC.

    They're probably just taking that flaming dude in the bar out of context.

  • taclanetaclane Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 358
    edited April 2017
    [On second thought, let's not comment here. 'Tis a silly place.] :tongue:

  • FicusFicus Member Posts: 5
    edited April 2017
    Thank you for the responses and links. If I'm wading along the edge of the bayou checking my crawfish nets, I need to keep watch for water moccasins passing through, but if I see any big gators it is time to move on. I am a traditional man playing traditional computer games based on the 1980s and 1990s AD&D pen and paper games which essentially conformed to an RPG Hays Code. As Avellone and McComb seemingly approved of the Unfinished Business mod in the past, I do think cut content should be restored, rushed areas fleshed out in more detail, etc. I would even love to see an apolitical Siege of Dragonspear style expansion for PST:EE by writers who are actually qualified to write AD&D 2nd edition content and treat it with sacred reverence rather than as a vehicle for indoctrination. Assuming WoTC was given their pound of flesh, why couldn't the Nameless One take a vacation and experience the Great Modron March? Or even further original adventures in Sigil or any random plane? It does seem safe for me to test out this game, although I'll probably give it a few weeks to make sure there isn't some bug where Vhailor propositions you over and over for unnatural relations like Dorn.

    Pekingduckman, yes, you believe what you believe. However, the prohibition on diversity of thought and expression in "safe spaces" like this is vitally necessary to protect your narrative from completely unraveling when challenged.

  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,158
    @Peckingduckman - I believe the OP's question was legitimate, and so were the answers he got. You are entitled to your views as much as the OP is to his, and I don't see the need to call "troll" when someone disagrees with you.

  • Wulf2kWulf2k Member Posts: 27
    Whether you agree with them or not, Beamdog created quite a bit of controversy with their handling of SoD.

    I think it's a fair request to know whether any of that controversy has bled into this game.

    Or, to phrase it another way, it's about ethics in videogame rereleasing....

  • therdretherdre Member Posts: 79
    really pathetic trolling

  • FicusFicus Member Posts: 5
    If you've seen the painting "American Progress" by John Gast, I am, in the minds of some, one of the Indians being pushed into the shadows by the shining light of Manifest Destiny. Name calling is an automatic response to people like me, and fully justified because the problem, of course, is me. My attempts to gain knowledge about this game can be seen as annoying at best, and my skepticism entirely unfounded.

    I utterly reject those viewpoints. As a consumer, I wish to make informed decisions before spending the fruits of my labor. Many people will not buy Beamdog's products due to upholding principles based in traditional morality. Although I am a man of the South, I am still legally allowed to buy and play Infinity Engine games. Torment is a mere vessel which holds a few precious drops of the much deeper Planescape setting of AD&D. Fidelity to the source is paramount. My hesitation to purchase arises from my personal experience with Beamdog's abrogation of this duty in their last game. Julius Borisov provided good websites which I carefully read, and I watched some of the most recent Twitch video. It does seem that by changing almost no content, they kept the brindle bulldogs of Karl Marx chained to the tree.

    There seems to be a balancing act. Beamdog can provide technical updates with few changes to the content, which leaves them open to criticism for not "enhancing" enough. They can hire Huffington Post writers to create all the new content, which leaves them open to criticism from morally upright men everywhere, despite much of this criticism being censored. There is a third path where they provide technical updates but also create new content written by those who are loyal to the original masterpieces and the published literature from which they derive. Chris Avellone is a good step forward, but Tony DiTerlizzi, Zeb Cook, Monte Cook, Colin McComb, and others are still alive. The same is true for Forgotten Realms innovators.

  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2017
    "It does seem that by changing almost no content, they kept the brindle bulldogs of Karl Marx chained to the tree."

    Yep — either trolling or barmy, not sure which. In either case, the purpose of the thread seems to have been fulfilled: since no new narrative content has been added to the game, it is impossible for it to contain any references to morality other than it already had. Any attempt to bait people into arguing about Beamdog's writing staff or politics in gaming generally would be off-topic imho, but I'm no mod.

This discussion has been closed.