I want to dedicate 5 years to make NWN as a IE Campaign Mod for BG. Where do I start?
spacejaws
Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 389
As the title says. I've wanted to get into modding for so long but never really had the time or motivation for it. My largest dissapointment around Neverwinter Nights is how detatched it feels from Baldur's Gate gameplay and I am interested in dedicating years to learn how to go about adapting the scenario to an IE game and eventually do so.
What are the recomendations on how to learn the modding scene from scratch and whether anybody would actually be interested in the idea.
Is it feasible? Should I begin my mad quest? (Has it already happened?!)
What are the recomendations on how to learn the modding scene from scratch and whether anybody would actually be interested in the idea.
Is it feasible? Should I begin my mad quest? (Has it already happened?!)
2
Comments
im still relatively new to the mod scene and I did a complete revamp of IWD/HoW/LotLM and let me tell you: it is NOT easy ( and those games are relatively easy to revamp since there is only 173 areas or so)
first, you are going to need to know NWN like the back of your hand and be able to play the game in your sleep, if you want it to have the true NWN ( every quest, every encounter, every item so on and so on)
second, I don't know how well it would translate over to BG since BG used 2nd edition rules, and NWN uses 3rd edition rules, so that would require a lot of tinkering, unless you try and make an IWD2 game use the mod ( because it has a closer rule set to NWN) but I don't know how good the modding tools are for IWD2 though
so with that being said, if you really want to make this mod ( which if somehow you were to actually complete it, in all honesty it would be amazing) there are some smaller steps you need to take
start off small, real small
its so easy to get caught up in something and want to do a big project off the start, but what happens is, that you start to get over whelmed and before you know it, you just give up on it because the task at hand it too much to handle, so start small, like dedicate a day or two on how to make custom items for example, learn how your mod editor works with item properties and such, learn all the menus, learn all the abilities, learn why certain item do certain things and so on, once you get a grasp for that, then make a couple of your own custom items and play test play test play test to make sure you truly grasp the item section, then do the same for creatures, scripts and so on, don't try and do all this at once, one category at a time
once you start getting a feel for how your mod editor works and how items/creatures/scripts etc work, then you can slowly start going forward, NWN does have some things going for it ( like the fact it's a very linear game so that is helpful) but again, don't start with big projects right away, because it's easy to get overwhelmed fast, slow and steady wins the race
My starting point is two fold. Draw out every NWN map in 2D and begin an NPC mod for BG adding each of the NPC's from NWN to try and become accustomed to the modding scene as it seems many people start at the NPC stage. Good thing there's a Half Orc now!
And yea I preferably would adapt the game system to the 2nd edition rules and trying to think of the many ramifications.
This is not something I intend to do quickly, but uh maybe before I die? So I went for 5 years
Thinking the title is Baldurs Gate: Winter Nights so check one is done phew I work faster than I thought.
Edit: the OP before edits suggested porting the entire game after learning how to code from scratch. My comments above reflect that.
Once you have completed this first goal and released it, you will not only have learned what you need to know about coding the IE games, but give all of us eager mod players a new toy to add to our own games.
I look forward to enjoying the fruits of your labor.
I'll begin with an NPC project, Tomi Undergallows, place with in BG as a recruitable NPC as a Swashbuckler due to lack of classed thiefs. Even if this ended up 5 years down the line with some semi-useable NPC's and a mattering of magical items for Baldur's Gate I'd be at least happy in some regard
I'd start with Spock lookalike Boddyknock if I knew a way to break the system to gove a gnome the sorcerer class.
I would suggest a plan like this:
1) Make a small change to an existing BG item, "by hand". [half a day]
[spoiler]
E.g. remove an on-hit effect from some weapon, or change its enchantment level from +1 to +2, or similar.
Try to modify the item's description as well, to reflect your change.
Simply install the latest version of NearInfinity, and you might be able to figure it all out yourself with a bit of trial and error. (Google or ask on the forum if you're stuck.)
Then in the game, use the cheat console to give the item to one of your party members, and test whether your modification worked.
Goals:
- Get accustomed to NearInfinity.
- Get a first impression of how the Infinity Engine game data is structured.
- Learn about item codes and ITM files.
- Learn the purpose of the 'override' folder.
- Learn about the purpose of the 'dialog.tlk' file, and the complication it adds to modding.
- Get comfortable with the in-game cheat console to help with testing mods.
- Find out if you're even cut out for this.
[/spoiler]2) Turn it into a proper WeiDU mod. [half a day]
[spoiler]
Download the latest version of WeiDU.
Take the "mod" from the last step, and turn it into a WeiDU mod that cleanly patches the item instead of overwriting the whole ITM file and dialog.tlk.
This has a bit of a learning curve, but it is well worth it to learn it early on. Follow a WeiDU tutorial for this one, or look at the code of another simple mod as a guide. The WeiDU README is also indispensable – bookmark it.
Goals:
- Get accustomed to WeiDU.
- Learn how to write a simple TP2 file.
- Learn to write and use TRA files.
- Learn how to use a simple WeiDU command (COPY_EXISTING).
[/spoiler]3) Add a new item. [1 day]
[spoiler]
Now add a second component to your WeiDU mod, that adds some magical item from NWN to BG – with a custom icon and description and everything – and places it in an existing store or in the inventory of an existing character in the game.
(Try to find a decent tutorials for this.)
Goals:
- Learn about BAM files and how to create them.
- Learn about other modding tools besides NearInfinity and WeiDU.
- Learn some additional WeiDU commands (COPY, ADD_CRE_ITEM, ADD_STORE_ITEM, etc.).
[/spoiler]4) Add a new NPC. [2+ weeks]
[spoiler]
The first real project, that isn't just a learning exercise.
Create a WeiDU mod for BG, that allows the player to recruit some NWN character to their party. It should include appropriate intro dialog, interjections, soundset, portrait, and personal equipment items, etc – but probably no quest content yet. Publish the mod.
Goals:
- Learn all about NPC modding.
- Learn the basics of dialog modding.
- Learn about BSC files and the basics of LUA scripting.
- Get comfortable in the Infinity Engine modding community (e.g. register a modder prefix, learn where to ask for help about what topic, learn the best practices for structuring and publishing mods, etc.)
[/spoiler]5) Add a new quest and area. [2+ weeks]
[spoiler]
Add a simple personal quest for your NPC, in the course of which players will visit a new (small) area. Publish this new version of the NPC mod.
Some quest states should be updated based on player actions (e.g. dialog choices, or picking up an item, or visiting an area, or killing a monster etc).
The area should have at least one hostile creature and at least one lootable container placed into it.
This could take a lot of time/effort, depending on what capabilities you have to produce the 2D background for the new area.
Goals:
- Learn all about area modding.
- Learn the more advanced aspects of dialog and script modding.
- Learn to work with quest variables etc.
[/spoiler]6) After completing steps 1-5, you'll have a decent understanding of what would be involved in making your big goal happen, and whether you even still want to continue. If you do:
- Try to recruit co-authors to your project, because it really doesn't sound like a one-man task.
- Consider learning how to use git, and host your project on github or similar to help keep track of everything.
- Also take a look at some previous Infinity Engine-related total conversion projects (BGT/tutu, EET, IWD-in-BG2, IWD-in-ToEE...) to learn how they used WeiDU or other scripting tools to automate repetitive tasks etc., and ask the ones that are still active for insights and help.
Good luck!Bear in mind that as a one man show you are responsible for
- Converting conversations/text to use the infinity engine.
- Menu Design
- Area design/creation
- Encounter design/creation
- Scripting
- Testing, testing, testing
Joking aside, no, it really is a hopeless endeavor. Is it physically possible to accomplish? Yes. Is there a semblance of a realistic chance that you'll get it through to the end *and* it will look nice and not be ridden with bugs and glitches *and* there'll be anyone left around to appreciate the effort? Well...
I'm sure someone must have tackeld that.
I uh not to sound like a lazy sod but work on a ship and have not been able to download the suggested programs. I've mostly ever played BG series vanilla, tried a few mods in the past with Dark Side and NPC's for BG2 but was dissapointed in the quality. I've just spent some time making general NWN characters with sort of close attributes tht don't make them OP death machines. I am going to follow the suggestions and start with a magical item, add Undergallows then some quest involving undergallows and that possible enhances said item. Then if I start to get a bit comfortable a quest that where Undergallows takes you to a custom location.
That's the ultimate goal for the meantime. I like the idea of NWN characters in BG because the games are actually chronologically near each other it could be considered believable whereas less so for Icewind Dale. I wouldn't be opposed to looking at it though and seeing what people have done in the past but I fear I might not be up to scratch with DnD to create original characters. Someone would pull out the rulebooks and school me.
Also I just want to say thanks for all the feedback in the thread it's honestly really helpful and I'll post anything I do here so you can rip it apart