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Sanguihn City: What is the moral path?

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  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 367
    scriver said:

    Bigfish said:

    Paladins we just fighty-er clerics anyway, from a thematic view.

    No, from a thematic view Paladin's are supposed to be Galahad, not just a cleric with a sword.
    Maybe, but I see them more often as the military branch of a church as opposed to "the chosen one" thing Galahad had going on, but that's a side effect of D&D classes become staples rather than legendary archetypes. When everyone is Sir Galahad, no one is.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    I think Bors and Percival would take affront with that.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    Excessive use of Romantic Encounters should make paladins fall... to judge by Sir Lanced-a-lot :). I once had a knight in an an rpg scenario I was running whose nickname was Sir Fellatio come to think of it :D.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Captain Fellatio Hornblower of the Royal Lancers?
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    edited April 2017
    scriver said:

    Captain Fellatio Hornblower of the Royal Lancers?

    Now I know what to name my char for my next BG run. (Well, the Captain and Fellatio and Royal Lancers part have to put in the bio to due name space issues.)
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    If you look as the original inspiration for paladins, it is the chivalric knight. So they should really be all about following the code, and personal honour, rather than "the greater good".

    It is clerics who where based on the idea of "crusader priests", acording to Gygax's own words. Which is where the 1st edition idea of no edged weapons came from.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Fardragon said:

    If you look as the original inspiration for paladins, it is the chivalric knight. So they should really be all about following the code, and personal honour, rather than "the greater good".

    It is clerics who where based on the idea of "crusader priests", acording to Gygax's own words. Which is where the 1st edition idea of no edged weapons came from.

    I don't see it. What part of the Paladin's alignment sets them apart from their idealogical opposites? Neutral and even evil characters can be lawful. Laws and codes in and of themselves are not good. Its the striving for something better in the realms that set Paladins apart. They should emphasize "good" over "law".
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited April 2017
    No, following a code is not inherently good. Which is why later games/editions have removed the "good" alignment requirement from paladins.


    pala|din
    [ˈpalədɪn]

    NOUN
    historical
    1) any of the twelve peers of Charlemagne's court, of whom the Count Palatine was the chief.
    2) a knight renowned for heroism and chivalry.


    2) Was Gygax's inspiration when he created the class.
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    That definition, as reductive as it is, does however imply good. The epitome of chivalry, the True Christian Knight, which is what the Paladin is supposed to be, embodies all the seven virtues: Diligence, Patience, Temperence, Compassion, Charity, Humility, and Chastity. Along with the knightly ideals of bravery and justice, person who unfailingly holds to these ideals (as a dnd Paladin must) is a man that will undoubtedly be Good according to the DnD alignment system. It is also a person for whom Good holds a priority than "just following a code". The purpose of the code is, after all, to do good.

    As for the Paladins losing the Good alignment requirements I think that has much less to do with whether Lawful or Good is more important to them and more to do with Paladin's becoming less about being the Ideal Knight and more about being Holy Warrior in the service of any god. Regardless it doesn't exactly help your argument since they also lost the Lawful requirement over time.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited April 2017
    The "goodly knight" is largely an invention of Tudor period (17th century) romance (which was already harking back to an imaginary lost golden age of chivalry). And, by the standards of the time, the knightly virtues listed above where what was considered "good". However, the concept of "the greater good of all mankind" did not exist at that time. So, keep your word and slaughter infidels, peasants, and anyone whose family couldn't pay the ransom. Which would equate to kill ALL the sanguihn, without promising to help either faction. They are infidels, and foreigners to boot!
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Fardragon said:

    The "goodly knight" is largely an invention of Tudor period (17th century) romance (which was already harking back to an imaginary lost golden age of chivalry.

    The genre is called fantasy. DND paladins are paragons of virtue in the same way Indiana Jones survives car chases and ambushes with 20 machine gun toting Nazis. Also, the lawful knight is every bit as much an invention as the goodly knight, so by the same standards, paladins also do not need to adhere by the law.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    DrakeICN said:

    Fardragon said:

    The "goodly knight" is largely an invention of Tudor period (17th century) romance (which was already harking back to an imaginary lost golden age of chivalry.

    The genre is called fantasy. DND paladins are paragons of virtue in the same way Indiana Jones survives car chases and ambushes with 20 machine gun toting Nazis. Also, the lawful knight is every bit as much an invention as the goodly knight, so by the same standards, paladins also do not need to adhere by the law.
    Paladins where invented by someone called Gary Gygax, who based them on Chivalric Knights, not Indiana Jones. If you want to create a character who is motivated by an overwhelming desire for the greater good, then that is fine. But there is no reason why they should be a paladin. They could belong to any class. A good paladin is not more good than a good wizard.

    The key feature of paladins is their adherence to a code. In modern games, the detail of the code is more flexible, and may actually require the paladin to be not very nice, as with PoE's Bleakwalker paladins. Thus, alignment restrictions have gone out of fashion, but the code (along with consequences for breaking it) remains.
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