Skip to content

Unexpected Plot Twists and Other Things (Hypothetical BG3)

ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
A conversation with my father got me thinking about an interesting topic, what kind of plot would we see in Baldur's Gate 3?

My father came up with kind of a joke, but it would be very unexpected if it happened: "I'm waiting for the sequel to Baldur's Gate where Minsc turns out to be evil and the smartest person on the planet"

So two topics
1. Serious Plot Ideas for BG3
2. Building onto this Marvel Comics-Esque Minsc is evil twist.

This could be fun :)

Please note: The Minsc is evil twist is a JOKE it isn't meant to be taken seriously, I would never do that to my favorite character.
Post edited by ZaramMaldovar on

Comments

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Both 1 and 2 (post ToB): Firkraag is back from the dead and becomes a joinable NPC on a dangerous high level quest.

    1: I've always thought that Viconia was too nice for a Sharan priestess, I mean, all FR lore I've read indicates that sooner or later they get down to business and spread some serious damage, and Viconia has both the faith and power to do it.

    2-Neera turns chaotic evil as in a "dark phoenix" plot !

    Personally I tend to avoid marvelesque plot twists, for that same reason I'm resistant to mods that ressurect certain plot characters or turns them into joinable npc's without good reason.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    edited May 2017
    @DJKajuru
    Oh I know, but the whole "Minsc is Evil" thing is just a joke so I think we're free to discuss it.
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    Baldur's Gate III. CHARNAME and Imoen (with her familiar, a lazy wolf called Fred) are hired by Minsc and Boo, disguised as Big Enos and Little Enos, to bring back bootleg Dark Thunder Dwarven Ale from across the border, in a warehouse in Rock That's Little of the Our Canned Saw Mines, in twenty-three hours. To do this, they need enough gold to buy the horse Tra'nZam, with Horseshoes of Speed. On the way back, they pick up a damsel in distress, Nalia, fleeing from an arranged marriage to the son of the head of The Flaming Fist. They get back in the nick of time, dodging ambushes along the way but just ahead of an invasion, then take double or nothing on getting Dragon chowder from Neverwinter.

    All the while Garrick is singing his tale of the adventure, "Amn Bound and Down".

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    No offense, but Minsc-as-Evil-genius is definitely a joke rather than a serious BG3 plot.

    As a serious plot idea ... I've long liked the idea of BG3 (and perhaps even BG4) being the story of how the new Church of [Your Original Protagonist] grows and develops after [Your Original Protagonist] accepts divinity at the end of ToB. [Your Original Protagonist]'s avatar might make a cameo appearance (and so might some of your former BG1+2 companions), but you'd be playing a new protagonist: a supporter of the new Church (either as a believer or as a mercenary), starting from level 1 and recruiting a new team of companions.

    There'd be natural opposition (Cyricists in all cases, plus various others varying according to the alignment/actions/etc. of [Your Original Protagonist] in BG1+2) and perhaps also natural allies (one or two similarly-aligned gods might lend your new Church a hand). The end objective could be securing the safety of the new Church (to operate openly, gain acceptance, build its own Temples, etc.) It'd be easy enough to plan various suitable main-plot incidents - such as raising building funds, guarding missionaries travelling to set up the new Church in a new area, rescuing followers imprisoned by hostiles, foiling some elaborate plot to discredit the new Church, saving beleaguered worshippers from a Cyricist siege, a planar excursion to find special equipment (perhaps the Godsbane sword with which Cyric originally killed Bhaal?), and a final showdown with the avatar of Cyric to end the opposition of his followers. Obviously there'd be a variety of side-quests along the way, to acquire treasure and recruit companions.

    I reckon it should start in BG City (because it's a natural place for the Church of [Your Original Protagonist] to be founded and headquartered), then heading out along the Trade Way to Daggerford and then Waterdeep (with a tidy opportunity to revisit the SoD locations in the early stages, including the ruins of Dragonspear Castle). Side-quests in that area might even include (at high level!) a run-in with Larloch at Warlock's Crypt, as well as (lower-level) opportunities to explore the High Moor, Misty Forest, maybe Secomber, maybe Ched Nasad (which is in that region's Underdark), and so on.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    edited May 2017
    @Gallowglass
    I said it was a joke.

    Other than that, your original plot idea is awesome.

    To prevent further confusion, I have added a joke disclaimer to the original thread.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    Can somebody make me an Evil Minsc Meme in the theme of the Captain America Hail Hydra panel?
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Minsc is evil, that wouldn't be a plot twist.

    "Swords not words"
    "Swords for everyone" ect. ect. ect.

    Would you let Minsc anywhere near "the button"?

    It is evil to believe that every conflict can be, should be, solved with bloodshed. Having a hamster doesn't change that, neither does being nice to your Mum.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @UnderstandMouseMagic
    Minsc isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he can be convinced not to solve things with bloodshed. He's suffered a lot of mental trauma from one too many blows to the head but he is still a good person.

    I'm simply asking people to provide more for the joke/twist OR come up with a legimate plotline for BG3. Although I would love to hear a plot for the "Minsc was fooling everyone" joke.
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    @DJ_Sweatz_2013

    I have a problem with Minsc because he attacks me if I don't agree to rescue Dynaheir.

    Leaving that to one side, a plot twist that would/could sustain another game is that Bhaal wasn't working to resurrect himself, but instead wanted the essence to be scattered when he became mortal and realised what he had become.

    That the Gods instructed Allundo to give the prophecy to encourage him, that only when he was mortal could the Gods influence him to do the right thing and ensure that the essence was taken away. As a God he was too powerful to stop.

    The game could be about the collected essence being stolen, Bhaal is resurrected as mortal in an attempt to retrieve it. But for the Gods not himself.

    Needs work I admit. But for whatever reason, I never feel that badly towards Bhaal in the game and would quite like to get to know the man he once was.
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    @DJ_Sweatz_2013 Just curious, have you read into the Illithid plot? I always thought building off of that would be the best option for the third installment.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @UnderstandMouseMagic
    If you don't like Minsc you're entitled to your own opinion. However as I will repeat: Minsc is mentally disturbed, not evil.

    Other than that, I like your idea about Bhaal being ressurected, but it was made very clear that he plans on Ascending to where he once was and becoming the Lord of Murder again.

    Personally I think TOB would have been better if you actually had to face Bhaal himself, but Amellysan wasn't a terrible villain either.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @Chidojuan
    No I don't think I have, could you elaborate?
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    @DJ_Sweatz_2013 Of course, so we may want to get more people in on it, @JuliusBorisov? If I have it right, it's the conspiracy that the Illithids are the driving force behind every nefarious plot in both games or close to it. It starts with the fact that the Windspear Key from Tazok opens the Illithid lair in the sewers, and you pick up a suspicious unreadable correspondence from them, but then expands from there. It was tied in to Durlag's tower, and how they were the driving force behind the doppleganger invasion, and even in SoD there is an Illithid that has taken over the old temple of Bhaal. There is the "Hidden" plot with Jan Jansen as well. If you look close enough, you can create a conspiracy theory that ties their influence to almost everything, such as the De'Arnise Keep, and the Umber Hulks being used to burrow in, supposedly from the Underdark, and being a precursor to an Illithid invasion. I may be grasping at straws now, but it's pretty fun to consider the possibilities.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    @Chidojuan
    Wow, now if only MatPat was a Baldur's Gate fan.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300

    @DJKajuru
    Oh I know, but the whole "Minsc is Evil" thing is just a joke so I think we're free to discuss it.

    @DJ_Sweatz_2013
    Sorry , I didn't mean to sound rude or anything. I just meant to say that , even though it was a joke, there are mods that deal with marvelesque changes and I tend to avoid those.
  • WatchForWolvesWatchForWolves Member Posts: 183
    Plot Twist: BG3 is a completely stand-alone game and has nothing to do with Bhaalspawn saga or even that time period.

    Please.
  • DaevelonDaevelon Member Posts: 605
    It's impossible that Minsc turns out to be evil, if they want to keep the continuity: i don't want to spoiler but let's just remember the ending in Tob where they explain

    the future of the companions in your group


    So fan fictions and jokes are ok but no canon:P
    Anyway, i really expect that they will make real that Boo IS a Giant Space Hamster.
    With some plot handling there shouldn't be problems against it, and i want it
  • _Connacht__Connacht_ Member Posts: 169
    I would vote against a BG3 because the tale of the Bhaalspawn has ended, unless it brings a new protagonist and no clues/ties to what happened in TOB, or unless somebody discovers a way to present a believable and acceptable way to continue without screwing up all the story.
    Either CHARNAME refused to ascend to godhood or he became a good, and this choice is left completely to the player. A new game easily would force to make canon one of the two endings, which is bad.
    Of course I don't say that it is impossible to write down something that allows to continue the tales of the Bhaalspawn without forcing to choose one of the endings of TOB or retcon, but chances are that it would be freakingly hard to set up something good.

    However I was told that lately Forgotten Realms publications in the last years say that
    Bhaal still returned after some centuries, so actually we could assume that CHARNAME didn't take the essence of Bhaal to become a god (thus this could be the base from which a new plot could arise)
    .
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    I'd love a BG3 but rather than the continuity stemming from the "charname", it relied on the NPC.

    A new charname with a credible threat to the realms that causes them to seek out the NPC who helped the original charname with the last threat.
    But they need to do it fast for the voice actors.

    Players already seem to be able to change their charname, character/alignment/class depending on the game they wat to play so that I think would work.
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    Adding on the post @Gallowglass made, there was an old formspring where George Ziets detailed his vision of a BG3 following Charname's ascension to godhood. Unfortunately the formspring doesn't exist anymore but there's some trace left courtesy of Gamefaqs.

    His quote:
    I’ve always thought that the struggles of a new FR deity could be pretty interesting. Think about what the Bhaalspawn would be up against: 1) few or no followers in a setting where a god requires worship to survive, 2) no divine portfolio to speak of, and 3) a fortress / headquarters that is still floating somewhere in the Abyss – not friendly territory, even for an evil PC.

    Under those circumstances, I think a divine campaign would be a battle for survival. It’s suggested at the end of ToB that Cyric and his allies will be coming after you (whether the player is evil or not) because Cyric took over Bhaal’s divine portfolio. The player, as a nascent god, would be facing off against some powerful deities.

    Terrible odds? Yes. But that’s great for a story hook.

    Initially the player may just be staving off imminent disaster as Cyric and his friends move quickly against the player – several strong deities against a relatively weak one. I could imagine the player being forced to abandon the Throne of Bhaal and going on the run across the planes. The player’s goal would be to gain followers (faith=power), usurp the divine portfolio of another god, and carve out a base of power in the wider multiverse. Your journey could take you to some of the planes we’ve never visited in a CRPG – Mount Celestia, Limbo, and Mechanus, for example – as well as revisiting old favorites like Sigil, though seeing the City of Doors through the eyes of a minor deity could be a very different experience. In a divine-level planar campaign, the player might stir up a civil war on Mount Celestia, conquer a layer of the Abyss, or assemble an adventuring party of divine avatars. Ultimately you’d take back the Throne of Bhaal, smack down Cyric and his friends, and establish a place for yourself among the pantheon of gods.

    Mechanically, it seems like a critical resource would be your divine power, which would rise with your number of followers (humans, divines, demons, or whatever), the extent of your notoriety and influence, and the importance of your divine portfolio. (The concept of divine rank could conceivably replace character level.) You’d create avatars to go adventuring in the various planes, so death wouldn’t force a reload. And as you travel the planes, you might learn ways to change or improve the traits of your avatar, or to create multiple avatars, each with different shapes and abilities, useful for different situations.

    That’s just some quick brainstorming, but I think a divine-level BG3 could be a lot of fun, and the Bhaalspawn’s story could certainly go on if developers wanted to pursue it.

    Note that I don't agree with everything he said (like Sigil's involvement) but I always thought the core concept could be interesting if done well.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @Kurona - I hadn't seen that before, and it's interesting. Thanks!

    However, the problem with a divine-level game is that (SFAIK) there's never been a D&D ruleset for that. Therefore devs would have to make it up as they went along ... and they'd surely need detailed step-by-step engagement with WotC in doing that, even if WotC would actually licence such a development at all, which I suspect they wouldn't. Even if permission could somehow be negotiated, it'd be a whole heap of extra work, including work by WotC for which they'd want paying ... so probably well beyond Beamdog's resources.
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    Wow this is great guys, loving the material. Keep it up!
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,309
    Daevelon said:

    It's impossible that Minsc turns out to be evil, if they want to keep the continuity

    I know that @Daevelon that's why I said it was a joke. It isn't meant to be taken seriously.

    Could somebody make a picture of Minsc saying "Buttkicking for Evil" in the same vein as Captain America saying "Hail Hydra" because I think that would be hillarious
Sign In or Register to comment.