[Watcher's keep final seal]

Magodark

I'm having a haaaaard time trying to beat the party that is summoned in the heart seal, i'd like to know if someone can help me on what i can do, i've been trying to beat for at least 2 days now...
I'll attach my save game so you guys can look if it is actually possible. Thanks!

Lord_Tansheron

Without looking at your file, that fight is simple about one thing: preparation. Well, and strategy. Two things, preparation, and strategy. And awareness. Okay. Three things. Prepare well for what's coming, lay traps, cast spells, get into position. Test things out to craft a strategy, see what is the biggest problem for you and how you can handle it, then move on to the next. And always keep an eye on what is happening. Don't let the large number of enemies confuse or distract you, be aware of your surroundings and of who does what, and when.

If you've made it this far through WK, then you can beat this fight.

bob_veng

try moving your party around to find more favourable terrain

Magodark

I only have Imoen that is a thief, it is my first playthrough baldurs gate, i never used traps... dont even know what it does, but she have only 10 in set trap that i didnt even bother... i tried put korgan to lure enemies and keep running distracting them while i rain down the others, but even in 4x1 that guy with two swords that use whirlwind hits like a bull and kill my fighters, since all of them are magic resistant i cant disable them... im hopeless

UnderstandMouseMagic

Can't open the file, could you give an outline of levels/party?

I find this fight horrific still and use loads of cheese to get through it unless I'm approaching epic levels, so you are not alone.

Magodark

@UnderstandMouseMagic I'm playing BGT with some fixes, maybe only someone with the same exact setup has mine can use the save, dont know...

Party:
My character pure wizard(conjurer) lvl 18
Korgan 21
Sarevok 21
Imoen 18
Minsc 18
Viconia 19

One thing that would help me is some advice on how can i use my wizard he just stands there doing nothing, nothing works on them, i just use some lower magic res and throw magic missiles on them, abi'dalzim dont hurt them as well, if i time stop i just dont see any advantage i can take...

Lord_Tansheron

Use your mage spells to lower their defenses. Figure out what's stopping you from killing which enemy, then find the spell to counter it. Between a cleric and a wizard you are guaranteed to find something to use. Dispel combat protections and clobber, or dispel spell protections and blast them with things like ADHW. You could also prepare some suitable contingencies, or use summons.

Make sure to analyze, don't go about things haphazardly. Combat in BG is fairly complicated, so make sure you are aware of what is going on first so you can then select what you need to counter it.

Magodark

My worst mistake was to take Comet instead of greater alacrity

UnderstandMouseMagic

Summons, (skeleton warriors/planateers/diva) buys you time while you try and get defenses down.

Before opening the seal, I cast fire storm and cloud kills, skull traps, delayed fireballs where the enemies appear (make sure you don't walk into them though when inserting the key).
Then high tail it away leaving the summons to delay the hoard. But keep them out of the AOE spells like firestorm.

Try and engage one enemy at a time, Korgan and Sarevok should be able to cope with one at a time. They need buffs of course and haste, potions or spells.

Use the wands of breach (lots of them to pick up in WK) or breach spells for the marileths. Then you can hurt them.
The same with the fighters.
I'm never sure quite what works but will use pierce shield, breach, secret word, dispell, you name it I'll use it, to bring defenses down.

Always replace a summons when one is destroyed, so lots and lots of use of the pause button so you can keep up with what's happening.

I tend to hide everybody in the room where you meet the ghost thing that says you have to pass the three tests (to the south). It usually means only one fighter gets through at a time for you to deal with. And send summons out from there into melee.

Beholders (the hive mother) really doesn't like cloudkill, the skeletons don't mind it.
Death spell for any enemy summons.
Your wizards should really be busier than anybody.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

PaulaMigrate

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

Summons, (skeleton warriors/planateers/diva) buys you time while you try and get defenses down.

Before opening the seal, I cast fire storm and cloud kills, skull traps, delayed fireballs where the enemies appear (make sure you don't walk into them though when inserting the key).
Then high tail it away leaving the summons to delay the hoard. But keep them out of the AOE spells like firestorm.

Try and engage one enemy at a time, Korgan and Sarevok should be able to cope with one at a time. They need buffs of course and haste, potions or spells.

Use the wands of breach (lots of them to pick up in WK) or breach spells for the marileths. Then you can hurt them.
The same with the fighters.
I'm never sure quite what works but will use pierce shield, breach, secret word, dispell, you name it I'll use it, to bring defenses down.

Always replace a summons when one is destroyed, so lots and lots of use of the pause button so you can keep up with what's happening.

I tend to hide everybody in the room where you meet the ghost thing that says you have to pass the three tests (to the south). It usually means only one fighter gets through at a time for you to deal with. And send summons out from there into melee.

Beholders (the hive mother) really doesn't like cloudkill, the skeletons don't mind it.
Death spell for any enemy summons.
Your wizards should really be busier than anybody.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

This pretty much sums it up - keeping your party in the south like you say, keeping the enemies occupied with summons. Try to get them one by one. The special thing in this battle is the mixture of the opponents, i.e. each needs a slightly different treatment. If you get one to attack your group, pause and consider which creature it is and how to harm that specific one the best. Try to get the humanoids first, the hivemother may die from all the area spells already at some time, the Marileth needs breach a lot. Do not waste more than you need on the enemy summons. Keep your party under control and out in the safe space whenever possible.

Magodark

I feel that luring just one enemy is kind cheeeeesy but, i guess i gotta accept my insignificance

PaulaMigrate

Magodark said:

I feel that luring just one enemy is kind cheeeeesy but, i guess i gotta accept my insignificance

That old exploit you describe should no longer apply for EE with the enhanced AI given to enemies. If they are supposed to work together they will. If you still succeed to isolate them, take your chances.

Magodark

@PaulaMigrate you're right, i couldnt they come together... i tried lots of skull traps too, but nothing... and the fiend he died with like, 2secs...

Khen_sai

I made this Reddit post a while back when someone asked about this encounter:

On my recent playthrough I figured out how to mostly solo the Final Guardians with just Keldorn* and bit of "Divide & Conquer": Have one party member with Cloak of Reflection + Boots of Speed + Oil of Speed near the seal, lock rest of your squad in the top-right corner room.

Once you activate the Seal, draw the marilith (Y'Tossi) and the Kensai Lady (Yxuan-whatever-the-heck) on the bottom room. Kite around to make enough distance between you, dash for the door and lock them in. Boom, two down.

Now you'll have easier time beating the succubus (Nalmrissa) and the beholder (Hive Mother), they'll go down once you pound them enough.

Sometimes The Huntress and drow priest gets up on your face. You can keep The Huntress occupied simply by leaving a summon (preferably Mordy's Sword) near the top-right door and then use HLA Smite and shoot her with bow/bolt: This knocks her all the way back, she focuses on Mordy's Sword for a good while as she can't deal with it effectively (and she can't see other hostiles in her LoS). Now you've taken out all the physical hitters out of comission, leaving only the squishier casters ripe for the picking. Couple Greater Whirlwinds + Carsomyr swings should suffice.

Once you've dealt with the casters, deal with The Huntress, regroup and then deal with marilith + Kensai Lady at your own leisure... or you can let 4 Mordy Swords + Planetar sweep the remainers.

... or you could just be a big Cheaty McCheat, swap out one of your party members for Jan/Haer'Dalis and spam Spike Traps before activating the Seal.


*Note that you don't specifically need Keldorn, any warrior with Cloak of Reflection + Boots of Speed + Oil of Speed will do. The fact that Smite HLA works with ranged weapons means you'll just want all the APR you can (damage is irrelevant) to maximize those knockbacks, Minsc with Longbow should have highest APR count here.

You'll need both Boots and Oil of Speed in order to outrun Y'Tossi and the Kensai Lady, having one or the other isn't enough.

Magodark

It's been 6 days in a row now... can someone please try my saved game? i'm this bad? starting to give up

Magodark

YES!!!! I F**CKING DID IT!!!!
Thanks everyone for the tips!!

MacDaddyD

That one battle is heroically epic. The most difficult battle Ive seen in the BG series up to that point. Good luck lol

charleswatkins

Has anyone pointed out that this battle is unnecessary? As soon as you've turned the key you can open the seal and go through before you are attacked.

jmerry

Why would you? There's a fantastic item in there for fighting it out. All three final seal fights drop weapons that have ToB upgrades, and the demonic women also drop the gauntlets with +1/2 APR.

The original post is several years old, but I kind of have to wonder how they got there with such low levels. Even starting fresh in ToB, clearing out Saradush and the upper levels of Watcher's Keep should get you farther than that. There's just a ton of XP there.