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What items should my party seek to acquire?

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Comments

  • AttalusAttalus Member Posts: 148
    edited June 19
    You're welcome. IIRC the bone Club you get from a dead Troll at the exit from Spellhold

    ETA: SPOILER


    You get the head of the Troll, and you put it on his altar. Then you get the Bone Club
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Bone Club is such a disappointing weapon. A +2 that, against the right type of enemy, gets boosted all the way to... +3. Yippee. Both Gnasher and Blackblood are much better.

    Interestingly, in bog-standard Shadows of Amn, there were only four magic clubs in the game and Bone Club was the only one of the four that wasn't tied to the Druid Grove. Gnasher is found on a druid at the end of the grove, Blackblood is available for sale in Trademeet after killing the Rakshasa in the grove, and The Root of the Problem is a reward for accepting the grove as your stronghold.

    (I guess technically you could just kill the Djinni in Trademeet and buy Blackblood without ever setting foot in the grove, if you were so inclined, but in a typical playthrough it's going to become available as a result of you exploring the grove.)

    The game didn't even have any generic +1s or +2s or anything. Those were the only four magical clubs in existence until Throne of Bhaal also added the Club of Detonation and a handful of generic +3s.
    AerakarQuartzZaghoulsemiticgod
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member Posts: 1,684
    Yup, clubs need more love in BG2, some nice magic versions added with mods in BG, and some interesting ones in SoD, but not BG2, as far as I know. I sure I will learn more with mods as I move to .BG2 modded'. B)
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,059
    To be fair, Club of Detonation is ridiculously powerful in the unmodded game. The upgraded version is one of the most damaging weapons in the game, if not the most damaging.

    Unfortunately part of that damage doesn't discriminate and will just hit everyone. Squirrels. Children. Your own precious face. Use with care!
    ThacoBellQuartzAerakar
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,059
    edited June 25
    @SomeSort excellent comparison, however keep in mind for FoA+5 that it prevents Improved Haste, which is a gigantic source of damage.

    Vorpal weapons and so on tend to not work against relevant enemies, the irrelevant chaff you can kill with a Long Sword of Stumbling-1 if it came to it.

    Also GWW is a thing, but that of course favors weapons like Staff of the Ram who are only held back by APR limitations.

    Crom is possibly great, but that depends on the party since it needs enough people to not use all the STR belts and/or DuHM; very possible, of course.

    And lastly, the Club has the nice side effect of actually HEALING characters with fire resistance >100 which is not that hard to achieve on whoever wields it.

    DISCLAIMER: I hope I'm remembering everything correctly it has been literal years since I last played unmodded. Way before the EE was even a glint in Beamdog's eye.
    Grond0AerakarQuartzArtona
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761

    @SomeSort excellent comparison, however keep in mind for FoA+5 that it prevents Improved Haste, which is a gigantic source of damage.

    Vorpal weapons and so on tend to not work against relevant enemies, the irrelevant chaff you can kill with a Long Sword of Stumbling-1 if it came to it.

    Also GWW is a thing, but that of course favors weapons like Staff of the Ram who are only held back by APR limitations.

    Crom is possibly great, but that depends on the party since it needs enough people to not use all the STR belts and/or DuHM; very possible, of course.

    And lastly, the Club has the nice side effect of actually HEALING characters with fire resistance >100 which is not that hard to achieve on whoever wields it.

    DISCLAIMER: I hope I'm remembering everything correctly it has been literal years since I last played unmodded. Way before the EE was even a glint in Beamdog's eye.

    The Club of Detonation healing effect is cute, but not terribly significant. The highest fire resistance you can achieve is 127%. If I'm correct about CoD fireballs being 6d6, that means they deal 21 average damage in friendly fire (provided you aren't allowed a save; I forget exactly how that works).

    27% of 21 average damage is 5-6 damage, (again, provided no save). So if you max out fire resistance on a character, then on one out of every 20 attacks he or she will heal 5-6 damage, for an average of about 0.25 damage healed per hit, (about half that if you are allowed saves against friendly fireballs).

    Basically, "Club of Detonation can let you heal your characters!" is something that's theoretically true and practically insignificant. It's generally not even worth equipping enough fire resistance gear to get all the way to 127%, in my experience, except to say that you did it.

    (It *does* synergize well if you were planning on maxing fire resistance anyway to let your mages chuck fireballs and delayed blast fireballs and sunfires with impunity, though.)

    Anyway, it's not my contention that Club of Detonation is a bad weapon, by any means. Just that it's not quite as good as it looks on paper. I'm not sure it's one of the top 10 weapons in the game in practice, (FoA, Crom, Belm, Kundane, Foebane, Ravager, SotR, SotA, Carsomyr, AotU, and DoE are all "better", just off the top of my head), though it's sort of in the same neighborhood and is probably better than other "top-tier" end-game weapons like Spectral Brand, Hindo's Doom, Storm Star, Angurvadal, Ixil's Spike, Gram, Short Sword of Mask, or Taralash.
    Quartzsemiticgod
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,705
    This topic turned into a weapon meta-game conversation and I ain't even mad. Way better than what I was asking. Carry on.
  • Livegood118Livegood118 Member Posts: 37
    Is the Ravager Halberd actually useful for killing stuff?

    In numerous playthroughs I've never actually used it, mostly because my dudes are dual wielding with a strong 1 handed weapon + an extra APR off-hand weapon with improved haste, which functionally works out at having greater whirlwind on 100% of the time.

    For example, what enemies are immune to the ravager decapitation and what aren't? Could I kill Abazigal with it for example?

    I suppose max APR with it would be:

    Specialised Fighter + Gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation + IH = 5 APR
    Master Fighter + Gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation + IH = 6 APR

    I read somewhere that the extra APR from potion of speed stacks with improved haste so if that was true you would be able to get a consistent 8 APR, though I've never tried it.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,194

    I read somewhere that the extra APR from potion of speed stacks with improved haste so if that was true you would be able to get a consistent 8 APR, though I've never tried it.

    It shouldn't do, no. However, remember in the late game that fighters will have GWW available. That's where 2-handed weapons suddenly look very attractive again compared to their 1-handed relatives.
  • Livegood118Livegood118 Member Posts: 37
    Grond0 said:

    I read somewhere that the extra APR from potion of speed stacks with improved haste so if that was true you would be able to get a consistent 8 APR, though I've never tried it.

    It shouldn't do, no. However, remember in the late game that fighters will have GWW available. That's where 2-handed weapons suddenly look very attractive again compared to their 1-handed relatives.
    IDK, mathematically Greater Whirlwind doesn't really have that much going for it for me vs Critical Strike:

    – Improved Haste can be on someone all the time, meaning APR gain from GWW is diminished
    – Improved Haste doesn't have to be activated every round, freeing up the character to do something else e.g. a quick cast spell
    – Critical strikes never miss
    – Critical strike will ensure that every attack does double damage vs non-crit immune foes and max dice rolls vs crit immune foes, meaning each critical strike hit will account for roughly anywhere between 1.5 – 2.5 multiplied damage per hit depending on the enemy (not taking in to account variations on dice rolls or elemental damage)
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,059
    edited June 26

    max dice rolls vs crit immune foes

    So you mean you always roll max damage? I was not aware it worked like this, is that true? No time to test right now.

    Anyway, if you can reliably maintain high enough APR through the right setup and IH, then yes CS tends to be better.

    If IH drops off or you can't max APR (e.g. because of Cleric, or 2h weapon, etc.) then GWW is likely better.

    As always, when in doubt do the math and err on the side of caution where the numbers aren't clear. Different setups will favor different abilities.
    Aerakar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,194
    edited June 26
    @Livegood118 I agree not missing is nice (particularly when used in conjunction with Harm :)). However, critical strike does not give maximum damage and most of the dangerous enemies in the end game are immune to critical hits. The extra damage offered by critical strike compared to a standard fighter attack (which will often only miss on a critical) is therefore generally not a lot per attack and the extra attacks from GWW will overwhelm that unless enemies are vulnerable to criticals.

    For users of 2-handed weapons I would personally have a clear preference for GWW, though for dual-wielding characters I would see it as more balanced (I would still not want to rely entirely on improved haste though due to the number of enemies that use dispel magic).
    QuartzAerakarsemiticgod
  • Livegood118Livegood118 Member Posts: 37
    edited June 26
    Ah my mistake then! Been a while since I theorycrafted BG.

    Still though – against non-crit immune targets I think critical strike works out in favour, depending on the weapon and whether added damage from enchantments can be increased when there's a crit.
    Grond0
  • Livegood118Livegood118 Member Posts: 37
    edited June 26
    Here's an example:

    Carsomyr +6 on an Inquisitor with gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation, Fire Giant Girdle and against a chaotic evil enemy.

    APR = (1 (Base) + 1 (Fighter level 13) + .5 (specialisation) + .5 (Gauntlets)) * 2 (Improved Haste) = 6

    Ordinary damage = 1 – 12 (2H Sword) + 6 (Enchantment Bonus) + 6 (Chaotic Evil) + 10 (STR) + 2 (Gauntlets) = 6.5 (avg) + 24 = 30.5 avg
    Crit Damage = 61

    GWW Round = 30.5 * 12 (extra added in for two crits) = 366
    Crit Strike Round = 61 * 6 = 366

    I swear I didn't plan for these to be equal before I started working it out!

    Edit: of course if you've got someone rocking the Ravager then GWW would always be superior imo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 2,194
    edited June 26

    I swear I didn't plan for these to be equal before I started working it out!

    I agree it's pretty balanced for enemies that are not immune to criticals:
    - in the above example you would only get one critical on average per GWW (and that's assuming that you had 2-handed proficiency, which you probably would - and would also add an additional 1 damage).
    - on the other hand there's only one lot of gauntlets to increase APR, so you might not want to account for those in the calculation.
    - on the other hand you won't always be able to maintain improved haste in fights.
    - on the other hand ... hang on a minute I'm running out of hands. There are so many possible permutations with grand mastery, kensai bonuses, spell buffs etc that there's never going to be a right or wrong answer.

    Incidentally, if you like critical strikes that means that you need to take power attack as well. That's a pretty powerful HLA in its own right due to the ability to stun-lock enemies.
    semiticgod
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761

    Is the Ravager Halberd actually useful for killing stuff?

    In numerous playthroughs I've never actually used it, mostly because my dudes are dual wielding with a strong 1 handed weapon + an extra APR off-hand weapon with improved haste, which functionally works out at having greater whirlwind on 100% of the time.

    For example, what enemies are immune to the ravager decapitation and what aren't? Could I kill Abazigal with it for example?

    I suppose max APR with it would be:

    Specialised Fighter + Gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation + IH = 5 APR
    Master Fighter + Gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation + IH = 6 APR

    I read somewhere that the extra APR from potion of speed stacks with improved haste so if that was true you would be able to get a consistent 8 APR, though I've never tried it.

    Your APR math is off. It should be 1 (base) + 1 (level 13+ fighter) + 0.5 (specialization) + 0.5 (gloves) = 3, which doubles to 6 with Improved Haste. For a pureclass fighter with Grandmastery, that's 3.5, which doubles to 7. Either way, you're ideally going to be using Greater Whirlwind to get it up to 10 most of the time.

    Ravager is amazing. Vorpal weapons use a different effect than the instadeath spells like Finger of Death, and the result is that a lot less stuff is immune. @Tresset wrote up the complete list here, but it's basically plot bosses, most (but not all!) ToB dragons, demiliches, and the Chromatic Demon.

    So Abazigail and Draconis are both no-gos... but you can slaughter Fire Giants until the cows come home.

    Ravager deals 11.5 damage per hit, plus 10.5 more every time the enemy fails its save vs. poison. If you assume enemies make 80% of saves, (most ToB enemies seem to have saves in the 5-6 range), that brings Ravager to 13.6 damage plus the Vorpal effect, which really lags even solid 1-handers like Foebane (15 damage per hit), to say nothing of the real top-tier on-paper contenders like FoA and Club of Detonation.

    But the Vorpal effect is really cool. It's hard to perfectly model it mathematically, but if you wanted a quick "good enough" shortcut... assume that you're facing a horde of monsters with X HP. Your ravager-wielder is attacking them and the vorpal effect is going off at random. It could be getting them when they have all X HP left, it could be getting them when they only have 1 HP left.

    If we assume all HP values are equally likely, (they're not, but as I said, we're just aiming for "good enough"), then the *average* monster who succumbs to the Vorpal effect will have (X+1)/2 HP left. So if a beast has 100 maximum HP, then the average beast will get vorpal'd with 50.5 HP left, meaning 10% of the time Ravager is effectively dealing an extra 50.5 damage, which is equivalent to 5 damage per hit. (Roughly equivalent; vorpal damage never suffers from overkill while flat damage sometimes does, so it tends to be slightly superior in practice.)

    Factor that in with the 13.6 and Ravager is up to 18.6 damage per hit against enemies with 100 HP, which is much more competitive, (point of comparison: Staff of the Ram is the highest-damage 2-hander from a conventional standpoint, and it deals 18 damage per hit). Against enemies with 150 HP, (I believe Fire Giants are in this range), that's 21.1 damage per hit, which tops even the Flail of Ages.

    Against weakling mobs, Ravager is a disappointment. Against the tougher mobs in the game, Ravager is on par with the other top-end damage weapons, provided you have the Whirlwind Attacks to feed it. I've always liked the idea of a weapon that gets stronger as your foes do.
    Grond0Aerakarsemiticgod
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,059
    SomeSort said:

    vorpal damage never suffers from overkill while flat damage sometimes does

    Well, it's tricky. Since vorpal doesn't REALLY do damage it's hard to model, but it DOES progressively become "worse" the lower HP the enemy is when it happens, because it's effectively the equivalent of dealing damage equal to current HP (not really damage, of course). That means a good amount of the time it translates to pitiful amounts of damage, since vorpal-ing a 2HP mob is practically irrelevant most of the time.

    In that, it is essentially the same as things like Deathbringer Assault, who also waste their damage more the lower the enemy HP is when they happen. In fact, both are statistically going to hit more lower-HP enemies than high-HP ones, simply because they're chance-on-hit and lower HP means more hits have happened.

    Also, against the most difficult enemies vorpal is most often entirely useless. While it's great to have against some of the tougher "trash" mobs, it's debatable how big of an upside it is on its own. That's not to say Ravager doesn't have okay damage (not great) by itself, just keep in mind that vorpal doesn't just translate to "everything will die in one hit".
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761

    SomeSort said:

    vorpal damage never suffers from overkill while flat damage sometimes does

    Well, it's tricky. Since vorpal doesn't REALLY do damage it's hard to model, but it DOES progressively become "worse" the lower HP the enemy is when it happens, because it's effectively the equivalent of dealing damage equal to current HP (not really damage, of course). That means a good amount of the time it translates to pitiful amounts of damage, since vorpal-ing a 2HP mob is practically irrelevant most of the time.
    But this was already accounted for in the model by using the (X+1)/2 factor, (where X = max HP). Counting it again is counting it twice.

    To simplify the math, imagine there's an enemy with 5 HP, and you deal 1 damage per attack with a 10% chance of vorpal. (To keep things simple, also imagine that vorpal triggers before the weapon damage; I know it doesn't, and I'll address that later, but let's keep things neat for now.)

    Now imagine you're in a room with a thousand of those guys, and you're just chopping them down one after the other. You attack the first one and either the vorpal triggers with it at 5 HP, or the monster drops to 4. Then you attack again and the vorpal triggers for 4, or the monster drops to 3. Then it triggers at 3 or the monster drops to 2, then it triggers at 2 or the monster drops to 1, then it triggers at 1 or the monster drops to 0.

    That gave you 5 attacks in the cycle. The average current monster HP at the time of each attack is (5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1)/5, or 3. You might notice that if you plug 5 (the monster's maximum HP) into my (X+1)/2 formula above, you also get an average HP at the time of attack of 3. That's not a coincidence, that's where this value is coming from.

    Across thousands of monsters, the vorpal effect will trigger 10% of the time and the monsters will have an average of 3 HP at the time it triggers. For average damage calculations, then, the vorpal is adding the equivalent of 0.3 extra damage per attack.

    Now, I mentioned vorpal isn't easy to accurately model and this was just a "good enough" approximation, and there's two major factors at play there. First, obviously vorpal kicks in *after* weapon damage, (or, alternately, it's only relevant provided weapon damage wouldn't have finished the monster anyway).

    So in truth, the factor shouldn't be (X+1)/2, it should be ((X - average damage per hit excluding vorpal)+1)/2. That'll lower the average HP remaining value at the time of the vorpal trigger, and consequently lower the amount of damage vorpal is adding.

    But there's another factor at play here, and that's that *some monsters never reach low-HP states precisely because they get killed by vorpal at high-HP states*. Go back to my 5-hp monsters and 1-damage weapon example, but this time change the vorpal percentage from 10% to 100%. What's the average HP of a monster at the time of vorpal triggering? Now it's 5; vorpal triggers themselves raise the value of vorpal triggers by culling lower-hp versions of the monsters before they come into being.

    These two factors weigh in different directions; the "weapon damage comes first" factor reduces the average HP of a monster you're attacking at the time of vorpal, while the "vorpal culls the herd" factor increases the average HP of a monster you're attacking at the time of vorpal.

    Accurately measuring the interplay between the two factors is far too involved for whatever minor gains in accuracy you'll achieve in your model, so I've simply set them to offset and stuck with the simplistic (X+1)/2 approximation for the average monster HP at the moment of vorpal.

    Which means Ravager's DPS boost then works out to (X+1)/2 * 0.10 (its 10% trigger chance), where X is the maximum HP of the monster you're attacking. Give or take.
    In that, it is essentially the same as things like Deathbringer Assault, who also waste their damage more the lower the enemy HP is when they happen. In fact, both are statistically going to hit more lower-HP enemies than high-HP ones, simply because they're chance-on-hit and lower HP means more hits have happened.
    Deathbringer Assault is flat damage and therefore mechanically different from vorpal. Deathbringer Assault, like all flat damage, is capable of overkilling. Vorpal is entirely incapable of overkilling. Vorpal always deals damage exactly equal to an enemy's remaining HP, not a single point more or less. (Well, vorpal isn't technically damage, but it's functionally equivalent to an attack that deals damage exactly equal to an enemy's remaining HP, yadda yadda yadda.)

    If you wanted to include Deathbringer Assault in DPS calculations, you shouldn't use the 200 damage * 0.03 figure, (6 damage per swing). Instead, you should treat it exactly like you do vorpal damage, using (X+1)/2 in lieu of 200. That'll be an accurate substitution for all monsters who have 200 or fewer HP at the time of Deathbringer Assault, which should be pretty much all of them.

    So if Sarevok is attacking a monster with 100 maximum HP, Deathbringer Assault is roughly equivalent to adding 1.5 extra damage to every attack. (Again, ignoring the caveat that by treating it like vorpal and ignoring the overkill, we're underrating it relative to traditional flat damage because some percentage of traditional flat damage will still be lost to overkill.)

    Anyway, massive wall of math aside, the conclusion stands; Ravager is about on par with or even slightly ahead of the other top-tier weapons in terms of raw damage per swing, and has the neat property of dealing more damage to tough enemies than it does to weak enemies, (provided those tough enemies aren't on the very short list of vorpal-immune monsters).
    ThacoBellAndreaColombosemiticgod
  • WrathofreccaWrathofrecca Member Posts: 60
    Jaheira: Do trademeet storyline to gain access to the shops and buy her a +3 club off one of the shopkeeps. Buy her a 19 str belt from main store in Waukeen.

    Dorn: finish slaver quest in copper cornet, then continue into sewers and do quest down there for +3 sword with immunity to charm and confusion. Dorn doesn't need much else and no amount of armor makes him a tank. the +18 con belt helps with the hp department but meh, he's dps not tank.

    Korgan: +3 axe from Nalia's keep quest, golem room inside a statue that activates them. With haste buff u can rob all the statues and be gone without dealing with the golems. I usually kill all but the big one since they're free exp. The big one can be killed but it can be a challenge. Otherwise just get Korgan the best armor out there and have him tank. The sewers under temple district have a good fight in the north corner, but be prepared as it can be rough.

    Hexxat: no amount of gear changes her play style. the copper cornet quest yields your first solid short bow, and staff of striking should be her backstab weapon until you get staff of ram from watchers keep.

    Haer'dalis: he just needs you to track down a stoneskin scroll and if he lacks it, mirror image or blur. He is a monster if you micro him right but he will die in a heartbeat if you don't keep stoneskin up. There is no shortage of short swords in the game and you get your first from traveling through athkatla so just wander from area to area. That said his swords are beat and wis affects saving throws. Defensive spin + spells for tanking make him extremely useful. Completing his quest where he's taken captive grants him bard only armor to raise his armor. You can eventually improve this with spells you can hunt down.

    Necromancer: Do the Sphere quest that involves Valygar. When you reach Tolgeras the wizard. Have a thief stealth and pick pocket him for his ring. I think you still get it if you kill him. You can then do the mage stronghold quest and gain more mage items. Mages don't care about armor or weapons so early game there is nothing you need except stoneskin and eventually bracers of ac x.
    QuartzAerakarsemiticgod
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,705
    @Wrathofrecca I like you!

    Jaheira: Do trademeet storyline to gain access to the shops and buy her a +3 club off one of the shopkeeps. Buy her a 19 str belt from main store in Waukeen.

    Already did these two exact things. Good to see you agree!

    Dorn: finish slaver quest in copper cornet, then continue into sewers and do quest down there for +3 sword with immunity to charm and confusion. Dorn doesn't need much else and no amount of armor makes him a tank. the +18 con belt helps with the hp department but meh, he's dps not tank.

    Got Lilarcor for him, I didn't think of the 18 Constitution Belt. The Cult of the Unseeing Eye quest is one of the few Chapter 2 quests I still haven't done, so good thinking.

    Korgan: +3 axe from Nalia's keep quest, golem room inside a statue that activates them. With haste buff u can rob all the statues and be gone without dealing with the golems. I usually kill all but the big one since they're free exp. The big one can be killed but it can be a challenge. Otherwise just get Korgan the best armor out there and have him tank. The sewers under temple district have a good fight in the north corner, but be prepared as it can be rough.

    Right now Korgan has the +3 Axe from the Copper Coronet, and the Rifthorn Axe for a throwing axe from Bodhi's quest, which I'm in the middle of. Still need to do de'Arnise Hold though...

    Hexxat: no amount of gear changes her play style. the copper cornet quest yields your first solid short bow, and staff of striking should be her backstab weapon until you get staff of ram from watchers keep.

    I do hear that giving her Throwing Daggers is a great idea for the strength bonus and 2 APR, but yea, right now she's got the Tuigan Bow.

    Necromancer: Do the Sphere quest that involves Valygar. When you reach Tolgeras the wizard. Have a thief stealth and pick pocket him for his ring. I think you still get it if you kill him. You can then do the mage stronghold quest and gain more mage items. Mages don't care about armor or weapons so early game there is nothing you need except stoneskin and eventually bracers of ac x.

    Yeah, I honestly wish I'd done the Planar Sphere quest earlier because the wait between stronghold quests suuuucks. And I'm not the type to metagame by sleeping repeatedly, lol.
  • WrathofreccaWrathofrecca Member Posts: 60
    I didn't think to use throw-return weapons for her when I used her last, but that would take advantage of her str.
    Aerakarsemiticgod
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 514
    She can use Tuigan for f/x arrows and special situations and then throwing daggers for normal combat. The boomerang, firetooth and poisoned throwing daggers are great for a high strength thief.
    Quartz
  • SomeSortSomeSort Member Posts: 761
    Aerakar said:

    She can use Tuigan for f/x arrows and special situations and then throwing daggers for normal combat. The boomerang, firetooth and poisoned throwing daggers are great for a high strength thief.

    There's (iirc) 100 Arrows of Dispelling for sale by the fletcher in Waukeen's Promenade. They're pricy, but so, so, so very worth it. Using them basically turns Hexxat with Tuigan into Keldorn with Holy Avenger: on demand dispels! (Better; Hexxat won't hurt your partymates as much when you're attacking them to dispel negative effects, and she won't have to chase them down, either.)

    The big problem in the long run is going to be THACO. A pureclass thief with a short bow will have garbage THACO, which means wasting a lot of precious arrows of dispelling. If you snipe from stealth, you get a THACO boost; I'd recommend taking advantage of this.
    AerakarQuartz
  • luskanluskan Member Posts: 269
    SomeSort said:


    There's (iirc) 100 Arrows of Dispelling for sale by the fletcher in Waukeen's Promenade. They're pricy, but so, so, so very worth it. Using them basically turns Hexxat with Tuigan into Keldorn with Holy Avenger: on demand dispels! (Better; Hexxat won't hurt your partymates as much when you're attacking them to dispel negative effects, and she won't have to chase them down, either.)

    She's a thief, you don't need to pay for those. ;)

    AerakarArtonaSomeSort
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