I don't understand what kind of gameplay they're aiming at with the Black Pits.
Will it resemble the gladiator-esque fights in the tavern of Ust Natha during BG2, or work more like a traditional dungeon?
The latter would be awesome. I'm not playing BGEE trying to create the ultimate party, so tactical battles with auto healing and buying items between rounds wouldn't interest me at all.
@Quartz It has definitely has its own plot that gives a reason for the type of game play it provides. Hopefully when you get around to trying it out, your low expectations will help you enjoy it a bit more!
Low expectations are the best expectations!
It's true! You can't be disappointed that way! High-five @Tanthalas.
Trent Oster said in Sorcer's place interview that he was proud of it and thought it was brilliant, and as fellow knights of the Order of the Radiant Dev, we must follow our gods decision and trust on their judgement !
@Quartz It has definitely has its own plot that gives a reason for the type of game play it provides. Hopefully when you get around to trying it out, your low expectations will help you enjoy it a bit more!
Low expectations are the best expectations!
Mine couldn't be lower. As for the 'hey, give it a chance, anyway' ( @AlexM ), I stand by my initial assessment. Nothing I've seen about this makes me remotely interested in it. Others think differently - good for them. Arena gauntlets don't interest me even slightly. Even if it's a story inside a story, it's another 'rats in the cellar' for me.
*edit because the @ didn't work without spaces in the ()*
As for @LordsDarkKnight185 - don't let my reticence dissuade you from your excitement. My issue is when people tell me I ought to have a different opinion than I do. It's similar to my never wanting to play a mage and not caring that they're powerful. Others find that stance silly, which is why they get to make their own CHARNAME and I get to make mine. Kind of works, nicely, that way.
I dont get why so many of you want story. Its apparently a mode seperate from the regular campaign, not in any way connected to that story or characters. Why would anyone want some tacked on, unrelated mini story? A dungeon disconnected from the rest of the saga?
I would def prefer it was focused around the action, arena style.
It's undoubtedly going to be a dungeon crawl. But so were Durlag's and Watcher's Keep, and those had basic plots/stories that drove the crawl. (Wasn't Watcher's Keep originally envisioned as an expansion pack while it was being developed?) If the Black Pits is at the same professional level of development as those two forerunners (which is fair to expect), then I'm sure it'll be great fun.
It's undoubtedly going to be a dungeon crawl. But so were Durlag's and Watcher's Keep, and those had basic plots/stories that drove the crawl. (Wasn't Watcher's Keep originally envisioned as an expansion pack while it was being developed?) If the Black Pits is at the same professional level of development as those two forerunners (which is fair to expect), then I'm sure it'll be great fun.
Those two were connected to the story in that they were new locations on the worldmap, which you could explore with your original party. More story and more treasure to loot. The Black Pits, however, will not be a place on the worldmap but rather accessed from the menu. It seems more like an added gameplay feature rather than a new adventure.
Your accomplishemnts in here will not be carried over to BG2 in the same way as Durlags Tower/Watchers Keep.
@Dino All true, but I'm just talking about the design of the adventure per se, and gameplay experience itself.
It doesn't particularly bother me that it won't be connected to the rest of the game. The XP gained from it would be unbalancing, reportedly. Not that that will stop modders from integrating it into the game! Because all the mods will add XP that will be unbalancing as well.
I'll eventually be playing with SCS/SCSII installed, so I'm not worried about XP totals. I expect to eventually see the Black Pits integrated via a mod.
Personally Id rather have the standalone option for those times I just want some I-Engine mayhem. Because there really is no place for that in the current game. Up until now, Ive had to rely on going on random killing sprees to satisfy that urge. Then loading, and pretend it was just a CHARNAME daydream. And even then, it aint challenging in the way that Black Pits seem to offer.
Also, as a possible multiplayer feature, it would be a hassle to create a game and going to a specific area on the map to enjoy it.
@Dino Yeah, this is definitely a matter of personal taste and what sort of itch to be scratched by the player with the Black Pits mod.
I play BGT heavily modded (which adds loads of additional XP), and to avoid the whole issue of unbalancing XP I use the SCS/SCSII mod that scales difficulty according to much better AI scripts than the vanilla game. But anyway, with all those mods installed I'm used to heading off on a lot of side-quest excursions that have nothing to do with the main plot. BG1 is chockful of that type of content to begin with, actually. Anyway, for me there's no right or wrong to it, just personal preference. How to derive satisfaction from replays via creativity is what interests me the most at this stage.
I don't know enough to really say either way. I'll be trying it out for sure but anything else is pure speculation for me. Maybe it will be have really interesting story/plot elements weaved in with the fights, maybe it will be complete garbage, who knows. I'll wait until I can try it to say one way or the other.
All I know is that a smaller more stand alone piece of content will lend itself nicely to quick multiplayer games with friends. As opposed to securing the time of up to 6 friends for 80 hours of role playing. Plus I'd rather play something like this on the bus/ subway than the main game.
I would be looking forward to it more if there were actually some new monsters to fight. As it is, it looks like it will just be an early preview of some BG2 monsters. This actually destroys the novelty and excitement when they arrive in BG2 proper for any new players, not to mention damaging the separation of atmosphere between the two games. Beholders, mind flayers and vampires for BG2. Tasloi, gibberlings and basilisks for BG1. That's how it should be.
I would be looking forward to it more if there were actually some new monsters to fight. As it is, it looks like it will just be an early preview of some BG2 monsters. This actually destroys the novelty and excitement when they arrive in BG2 proper for any new players, not to mention damaging the separation of atmosphere between the two games. Beholders, mind flayers and vampires for BG2. Tasloi, gibberlings and basilisks for BG1. That's how it should be.
This is a good point. This is a VERY good point.
Counterpoint: in PnP games, these monsters are actually often met at lower PC levels. The conflicts I remember most about these characters are from my PnP games when we fought only one of them with a band of mid-levels. They really shine the best as awesome monsters before high levels and that might be the best place for them.
Yes as a player who already know BG2 I'm looking forward for these fights with BG1 lvls. But for sure for newcomers it's not so good to introduce BG2 specifics early. Did they actually say there will be no new monsters?
Actually that's a very good point, for me it really gives a real sense of progression when that monster that was such a threat to my level 5 party is now something they're carving through by the dozen.
Okay, stupid question. What exactly is going on with the whole party thing in the Black Pits? Do you create a specific party just for that or can you use the same party you're using in the main game, or what?
Okay, stupid question. What exactly is going on with the whole party thing in the Black Pits? Do you create a specific party just for that or can you use the same party you're using in the main game, or what?
to be fair, I think the only person on this thread who really has the ability to judge on its quality at the moment is @AlexM so I think I'm gonna heed his words, but then again if it ain't your cup of tea, no sweat still heaps of great stuff in the main game @LadyEibhilinRhett from what I can gather you can either create your own custom party or you can import your party from the main game. edit: he also raises a good point Trent also said Mark Meer voiced the antagonist awesomely so it'd be cool to hear that
It seems a fair bit like a mini-TotSC to me. That expansion also has no real place in the BG1 plotline and mostly serves as three extra adventures. The only difference is that the TotSC-content can be accessed from within the game, but just mentally RP that your party ended up in the Underdark during events between BG1 and BG2 and it should be largely the same thing. That's the time when the TotSC event logically would have happened as well.
I would rather put the whole development effort into BG itself (bugfix, improving ai, extra storyline..etc) rather than a new Campaign that has nothing to do with the whole saga, but, hey~ I'm not a developer. Or was the black pit a level they used for testing?
might just check it out when I have the time... but playing the new charname and his revamp saga(sorry I don't normally play a she) my top priority when BGEE comes out, not the 6 random hack machines
Durlag's Tower and Watcher's Keep both were driven by a story. With the Black Pits the story is as follows:
"Rouse yourselves, you lice-laden layabouts. Stand and salute your new master, Baeloth the Entertainer!"
Across the realms, individuals of great power and prestige receive a scroll via magical means. Unfurling it, they discover that they have been selected as one of the very few to enjoy the finest forms of entertainment in all creation...
Come one, come all! Baeloth the Entertainer cordially invites you to the greatest spectacle the realms have to offer - mortal pitted against mortal in a desperate bid to survive! Thrilling combat, scintillating magic, and the grim spectre of death lurk above this, the greatest of all shows! All this and more can be enjoyed within... THE BLACK PITS!
Deep within the Underdark where few dare to tread, the mad drow Baeloth has used his extensive mastery of magic to force a duergar colony into creating an entertainment complex of his own design. He has invited guests from across the realms, from Maztica to Menzoberranzan, and they will readily attend - Baeloth is known to be an excellent showman.
The Black Pits is one of the enhancements that make up Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition that allows you to create a full party and battle through fifteen hellish battles in a desperate bid to escape. Difficult challenges, unique battles, and a bizarre cast of characters await you within the Underdark!
• A stand-alone adventure set deep within the Underdark • Fifteen levels of arena-style combat challenges • Full control and customization of up to six party members • Over 6 hours of additional gameplay
The Black Pits are your new home... enjoy your stay while you can!
Why do we expect that there will be less story/lore driving this action than we saw with Durlag's or WK?
@Lemernis Indeed, I'd expect them to be similar in that regard, and as such it doesn't seem like a bad addon. Having said that, the saving grace is the option to import the party that you played through BG1 with. Without that, it really would be disconnected from the rest imo.
Well, arena fights aren't really my cup of tea. But the tactical component may make it a bit more interesting. And I think it's an original idea, never really seen before in other IE games. If the show is as thrilling as the Provings in DA:O and well written, all the better.
Comments
Will it resemble the gladiator-esque fights in the tavern of Ust Natha during BG2, or work more like a traditional dungeon?
The latter would be awesome. I'm not playing BGEE trying to create the ultimate party, so tactical battles with auto healing and buying items between rounds wouldn't interest me at all.
*edit because the @ didn't work without spaces in the ()*
But I do, and i'm excited to try out the black pits (when I want a break from main-story)
As for @LordsDarkKnight185 - don't let my reticence dissuade you from your excitement. My issue is when people tell me I ought to have a different opinion than I do. It's similar to my never wanting to play a mage and not caring that they're powerful. Others find that stance silly, which is why they get to make their own CHARNAME and I get to make mine. Kind of works, nicely, that way.
I would def prefer it was focused around the action, arena style.
The Black Pits, however, will not be a place on the worldmap but rather accessed from the menu. It seems more like an added gameplay feature rather than a new adventure.
Your accomplishemnts in here will not be carried over to BG2 in the same way as Durlags Tower/Watchers Keep.
It doesn't particularly bother me that it won't be connected to the rest of the game. The XP gained from it would be unbalancing, reportedly. Not that that will stop modders from integrating it into the game! Because all the mods will add XP that will be unbalancing as well.
I'll eventually be playing with SCS/SCSII installed, so I'm not worried about XP totals. I expect to eventually see the Black Pits integrated via a mod.
Personally Id rather have the standalone option for those times I just want some I-Engine mayhem.
Because there really is no place for that in the current game. Up until now, Ive had to rely on going on random killing sprees to satisfy that urge. Then loading, and pretend it was just a CHARNAME daydream. And even then, it aint challenging in the way that Black Pits seem to offer.
Also, as a possible multiplayer feature, it would be a hassle to create a game and going to a specific area on the map to enjoy it.
I play BGT heavily modded (which adds loads of additional XP), and to avoid the whole issue of unbalancing XP I use the SCS/SCSII mod that scales difficulty according to much better AI scripts than the vanilla game. But anyway, with all those mods installed I'm used to heading off on a lot of side-quest excursions that have nothing to do with the main plot. BG1 is chockful of that type of content to begin with, actually. Anyway, for me there's no right or wrong to it, just personal preference. How to derive satisfaction from replays via creativity is what interests me the most at this stage.
Counterpoint:
in PnP games, these monsters are actually often met at lower PC levels. The conflicts I remember most about these characters are from my PnP games when we fought only one of them with a band of mid-levels. They really shine the best as awesome monsters before high levels and that might be the best place for them.
But for sure for newcomers it's not so good to introduce BG2 specifics early.
Did they actually say there will be no new monsters?
@LadyEibhilinRhett from what I can gather you can either create your own custom party or you can import your party from the main game.
edit: he also raises a good point Trent also said Mark Meer voiced the antagonist awesomely so it'd be cool to hear that
rather than a new Campaign that has nothing to do with the whole saga, but, hey~ I'm not a developer.
Or was the black pit a level they used for testing?
might just check it out when I have the time...
but playing the new charname and his revamp saga(sorry I don't normally play a she) my top priority when BGEE comes out,
not the 6 random hack machines