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Alignments that are Wrong in your Opinion

2

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  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @DrakeICN
    Yeah and Viconia posed for Playmale, so it's not that awkward.

    semiticgoddess
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    DrakeICN said:

    tbone1 said:



    Bravo! Any chance of using "Fat Bottom Girls" for Branwen?

    Or am I revealing too much?

    I am fairly sure she already appeared in adventurers illustrated as a cover girl, so don't sweat it.
    Pics or it didn't happen.

    (I'll just get my coat ...)

    ZaramMaldovar
  • Necromanx2Necromanx2 Member Posts: 1,237
    Doesn't Minsc act like a werewolf with his berserk? He is fine before transforming and a killing machine after. At least werewolves (from people infected and not natural WW) only change at the full moon.

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @Jimstrom
    Thank you, that's about the best explanation I can think of. It's the argument I'd been trying to make but I'm terrible at explaining things.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,210
    When push comes to shove though, Coran benefits himself over others. He can't stop himself from stealing, he cheats on every woman he is with (Brielbara shows us that not all of them are okay with this) thats some major emotional hurt, abandoned his child because he cant give up his lifestyle. He is firmly chaotic. The only thing keeping him from evil is a lack of malice.

    DreadKhansemiticgoddess
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @Jimstrom
    I still feel like all that stuff could apply to a Chaotic Neutral character. Granted, they are EXTEREMELY likely to betray anyone in general, but examples exist of those who wouldn't.

    For example:
    Safana and Saemon have absolutely no qualms about betraying people. Neera has done it before, but during her time with the party, she changes (particularly if you romance her). Jan and Garrick are iffy, which is exactly how CN should be.

    I feel that Coran should still be considered CN at least in BG1, but in BG2 he has definitely moved up in the world to CG.

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @ThacoBell
    Safana has the same disapproval of Coran in SOD, but we all know that Safana would totally cheat on anyone too. I mean, I've heard she cheats on CHARNAME with Voghiln if they are both in the same party.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,210
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @ThacoBell
    Yeah, Safana is CN and rightfully deserving of the alignment. Absolutely no case of mistaken alignment there. I was just continuing your argument by adding that Safana also got tired of Coran.

    ThacoBell
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    edited July 2017
    You might make an argument that Safana is a bit more evil than good. I don't think she's CE material though, so she's CN. She's kinda cruelly manipulative, but it can be argued she's using the tools she has; she doesn't have brawn after all, how else is she supposed to succeed as an adventurer?

    Edit: I really think Coran does just enough regarding his child to not be evil, he really does the absolute minimum. He's solidly CN.

    Also, Robin Hood is CG because he robs to fight oppression by an evil government and even shares the proceeds with those in need/offers sanctuary. Just stealing from the rich isn't CG behaviour.

    Alora the klepto is a bit much for me, but maybe she's helping Halflings orphaned by Kobolds?

    tbone1ThacoBell
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    I think the problem with neutral characters is that they have no particular reason to do evil. I know, because I am chaotic neutral, yet I always see my reputation creep up, forcing me to impale the most annoying bastard around, to keep it neutral. Like, we do not go out of our way to do good, but given the choice between good and evil (all other factors being equal), yeah, we're gonna side with good, because being good feels good man, and people will be all nice to you, and stuff. We need encouragement to do evil, like, it's lucrative, or highly amusing, or if we dont feed that snitch to the fishes we will get heat after us... the default choice will be good, so we might easily be misinterpret as good.

    ZaramMaldovartbone1
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    DreadKhan said:

    Also, Robin Hood is CG because he robs to fight oppression by an evil government and even shares the proceeds with those in need/offers sanctuary. Just stealing from the rich isn't CG behaviour.

    Good point. Someone once asked John Dillinger why he robbed banks; to which he replied "That's where the money is".


  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 98
    edited July 2017
    Something i forgot to mention, Coran was hired by Keldath Ormlyr to slay a dragon according to the townspeople, but he quickly came to that all witnesses had mentioned that the dragon had a barbed spikey tail, something that dragons lack that must mean it was wyverns instead. it's just a small notice, but since he was contracted he had a reason to hunt the wyverns in the first place.

    Post edited by Jimstrom on
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    edited July 2017
    @Jimstrom
    It's a common misconception that Chaotic Neutral characters don't have reason, the BG explanation of "lunatics and mad men tend toward this behavior" is a bit off. While your typical lunatic probably is Chaotic Neutral most of the Chaotic Neutral characters in Baldur's Gate are quite sane and capable of reasoning, including but not limited to
    1. Safana
    2. Garrick
    3. Neera
    4. Jan (Okay, Jan is a bit off, but he's still capable of reason)
    5. Saemon Havarian
    6. Haer'Dalis

    Others who are probably CN and are completely mad are
    1. Mad Arcand (though he was turned magically insane)
    2. Dradeel

    Edit: I just realized you meant A reason to do something, but I'm going to keep this comment here as a monument to my own stupidity.

    tbone1
  • dustbubsydustbubsy Member Posts: 246
    Re: Coran, I think that as elves are generally CG (in 2nd Ed manual) his race and upbringing has shaped his alignment. Given enough time adventuring away from his roots, he certainly could slip into CN territory.

    But elves are long-lived, and a few selfish or irresponsible acts along the way is not likely to change their frivolous but essentially well-meaning nature. True, we don't see Coran do any overtly good acts in the game, but we don't see any of Kivan or Alora either. He is at least working for Keldath, a good aligned character, to kill something evil.

    tbone1
  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 98
    Yes and Yago is an neutral evil mage who put a curse on his daughter so she would not live to her first birthday, it's a good deed to slay Yago and take back the spellbook som Brielbara cand break the curse, however once the good deed is done, he is off again to new adventures and good deeds.

  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    Jimstrom said:

    Yes and Yago is an neutral evil mage who put a curse on his daughter so she would not live to her first birthday, it's a good deed to slay Yago and take back the spellbook som Brielbara cand break the curse, however once the good deed is done, he is off again to new adventures and good deeds.

    Except

    It is Coran's child, not Yago's


    So the more you know, ...


    ThacoBell
  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 98
    Yes i know it is Corans child, Yago put a curse on Corans offspring because she had elven ears whe she was born, it is still a young child cursed to die, it is a good deed to try to prevent it.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,210
    I believe what we have here is a case of game balance over lore. Its pretty obvious that several characters were given certain alignments to keep alignment choices pretty balanced.

    tbone1Arctodus
  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    Yet all the "really good" characters are of the Evil alignment. Hmm... >.>

  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798
    I always thought Viconia's alignment was more neutral. She's got a cruel streak to her, but she almost never really pushes you towards the evil actions like Edwin and Korgan do. And considering she lived in the Underdark for so long, she's actually become pretty tolerant on the surface.

    Ardul
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @TheElf
    NE is a complex alignment. Most NE characters pursue evil or self-serving ends but don't really have a desire to push others to do the same. Many of them are exceptionally good at hiding their evil nature when necessary. Viconia is driven almost purely by a survival instinct and is also a cleric of Shar, a NE deity. Viconia doesn't tolerate weakness, is quick to berate a party that ventures into heroic territory but will side herself with whomever is necessary in order to pursue her goals and keep herself alive. She isn't the perfect example of NE, but she is a pretty good one.

    ThacoBellMortianna
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,210

    Yet all the "really good" characters are of the Evil alignment. Hmm... >.>

    Well, all the specialists are evil.

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @ThacoBell
    Dynaheir is a specialist, granted she isn't that great of a character, but she is a non-evil specialist.


    Also Jan is an Illusionist/Thief and he's not evil, so that's two.

    Neera is a Wild Mage so that's three.

    semiticgoddess
  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 98
    Xan is also a Lawful Neutral Enhanter and Quayle is a Chaotic Neutral Cleric/Illusionist

    semiticgoddessZaramMaldovar
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    edited August 2017

    Yet all the "really good" characters are of the Evil alignment. Hmm... >.>

    Kivan.
    Alora.
    Yeslick.
    Branwen.

    There you have: arguably the best archer, best thief, second best tank, best cleric (depending on playing style). There are no mages on that list, but no one is going to top Edwin as a mage, though I think Quayle edges him out as a spellcaster.



  • JumboWheat01JumboWheat01 Member Posts: 1,028
    Mmm... Yeslick is indeed quite awesome. Wish he was available earlier, and that I didn't have to leave someone to die or go through the mines with only five characters worth of carrying space to get him. Though I can see arguments for Kagain (who's evil,) who has better physical stats without needing to rely on spells to make him better, and natural regeneration all the time. Plus, Kagain is available quite early and quite easily too.

    I can also see arguments for Viccy (who's evil) over Branwen, do in no small part of her innate Magic Resistance. Spells be a problem, at all levels.

    As for Alora, by that point in the game, it's almost silly to try adding a new party member. All your current crew have been invested in with items and time.

    Kivan, though, I'll hand it to you. Well, if we ignore Coran, who's at least the same alignment.

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @tbone1
    That is true, no one can stop Edwin as a mage. Baeloth however is a Sorceror and tops Edwin quite nicely as an arcane spellcaster.

    @JumboWheat01
    While I've never used Alora, quick tweaking with the BG1 NPC Project Mod allows you to pick up late game NPCs a little earlier

    Tiax can be moved from Baldur's Gate to Beregost.
    Alora can be moved from Baldur's Gate to Gullykin
    Eldoth can be moved from Cloakwood to the Crossroads
    Quayle can be moved from Wyrm's Crossing to the Nashkel Carnival

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