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Alignments that are Wrong in your Opinion

1. Coran
Original Alignment: Chaotic Good
Suggested Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
This is perhaps the biggest case of mistaken alignment in the entire series. Coran shows very few redeeming qualities. Now of course, Coran is NOT an evil man. We don't see him stealing from the poor or killing innocent people, but Coran is too much of a selfish jerk to be Chaotic GOOD. When we first meet Coran he seems to be motivated entirely by greed and will threaten to leave the party if the quest for Wyvern heads is not given top priority. Any sensible Chaotic Good character if they discovered evil was afoot would change their priorities at least until the matter was properly settled before returning to their own pursuits, whereas Coran does not. Now other people have pointed out Coran treating women like objects and abandoning his children but while these are terrible things to do they alone aren't enough evidence in my opinion to warrant him not being good as every alignment is more complicated than it appears. However when you combine these two you get a man who is motivated completely by the self, which does not align with the typically selfless principles of Chaotic Good

2. Minsc
Original Alignment: Neutral Good in BG1, changes to Chaotic Good in BG2
Suggested Alignment: Chaotic Good in BOTH games
Some people will make the argument that Minsc's alignment shifted due to the death of Dynaheir in BG2, but I suggest that Minsc's alignment shifted due the the head wounds he suffered prior to BG1. Others argue that Minsc should not be considered good at all due to his berserk actions against those that would refuse to aid him but I think such observations are ridiculous as this behavior is chalked up to Minsc's lack of judgement due to suffering obvious brain damage. Minsc is still good at heart but simply needs an guiding hand to keep him on the right track, he is still an excellent champion of butt kicking for goodness.

3. Baeloth
Original Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Suggested Alignment: Neutral Evil (I would also accept Lawful Evil, but this is pushing it)
Baeloth doesn't seem to have the bloodthirsty and carnal nature of Chaotic Evil. What he DOES have is the self-absorbed and practical nature of a Neutral Evil character. Baeloth is exceptionally intelligent, capable of weaseling his way into CHARNAME's group, doesn't constantly make suggestions but rather bides his time using CHARNAME in order to get stronger for his return to power and to get revenge on those who made him suffer. Baeloth is surprisingly polite and knows how to get along with most people and be tolerated by the rest even though it is clear he sees everyone as beneath him and thus actually fits into pretty much any party not led by a Paladin or some other LG or LN fundamentalist.

ArctodusBalrog99OrlonKronsteenmarkzaku
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Comments

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    Ooh, I forgot one more alignment.

    Corwin
    Original Alignment: Lawful Good
    Suggested Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    Now I know that being of Ranger class requires you to be Good, but I've never agreed with that particular distinction. Corwin is far too rigid and judgemental to be considered good. She is only interested in following orders and defeating her enemies. She does care about her family of course, but any alignment can care about that and she immediately condems the player regardless of their actions at the end of SOD. A Lawful Good person would of course be concerned about rules and order, but not to the extent that Corwin does. The rules are the only thing that concern Corwin and any who step out of line for any reason should be judged, everything about Corwin screams Lawful Neutral with the volume of Sam Kinison.

    ThacoBellOrlonKronsteenmarkzaku
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,210
    @ZaramMaldovar Pain In The Arse. Though personally I like her as a character.

    ZaramMaldovar
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    edited July 2017
    @ThacoBell
    I despise Corwin, although the bit at the end of Chapter 7 where she says goodbye to Rohma is so adorable. Rohma is one of my favorite minor characters.

    I'm not a child, I'm five years old. Gets me every time. Reckon it'll even warm the black heart of the Lawful Evil Blackguard I'm thinking of playing in the future.

    ThacoBellOrlonKronsteen
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    Kagain should be LN and Korgan should be NE.

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    edited July 2017
    @Raduziel
    I have to disagree, at least on the Korgan part.

    Korgan wears a necklace of ears, enjoys bloody battles and killing, belittles good aligned companions (with the exception of Keldorn and Mazzy for some reason) and if his behavior didn't make him being Chaotic Evil clear enough his biography literally ends with him going on a killing spree in the Underdark.

    @semiticgod
    Yeah but that can be chalked up to laziness by the coders or punishment for trying to add Irenicus to the party. I'm talking specifically about actually canon alignments.

    ThacoBell
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716

    Korgan wears a necklace of ears, enjoys bloody battles and killing, belittles good aligned companions (with the exception of Keldorn and Mazzy for some reason) and if his behavior didn't make him being Chaotic Evil clear enough his biography literally ends with him going on a killing spree in the Underdark.

    When asked about his past, Korgan growls that unless you want to end up like the members of his last scum-sucking, traitorous party, you'd best keep your over-curious nose to yourself. Seeing as the dwarf is only slightly short of a necklace of ears in proving his enjoyment of slaughter, you decide to obey his request

    I'm not a native speaker but seems like this is a force of expression. Like "the only way he could express best his love for killing would be wearing a necklace of ears".

    And none a thing said about Underdark. And in the D&D Good-Evil dichotomy, going on a killing spree in the UD would be a good action.

    In his banters he seems very NE. At least under my judgment. :)

  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @Raduziel
    Perhaps, but Korgan isn't going on a killing spree to rid the world of Drow, he's going on a killing spree because he enjoys it.


    Neutral Evil is far more complicated than it sounds and rarer than you would think. While Neutral Evil people can enjoy killing, it isn't their entire personality (usually)

    An example: Dorn is Neutral Evil, he enjoys killing but he isn't just going to go on a killing spree for no reason, Korgan might provided he knew he could get away with it, which when it comes to killing Drow he totally could.

    ThacoBell
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    edited July 2017

    Minsc:And sticking a live hamster into the backpack (or his loincloth, as seen in Irenicus's dungeon) is clearly a case of animal abuse.

    Boo isn't in the backpack, he's in the quickslot, which means on his belt. He's outside the pack, breathing fresh air and roaming about Minsc's body. At least that's how I always pictured it.

    But you have a point : the guy's dangerous. Ever fought Nimbul before, then activated Minsc's rage only to see him start to slaughter the villagers around ? He can only be Chaotic Neutral at best...

    Alora, : c'mon on, man, she's too mushy mushy to be evil... Embrace the joy. EMBRACE THE JOY. GAAAAH !!

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,590
    Korgan is Chaotic Evil. A Neutral Evil character doesn't particularly enjoy killing for no reason. It doesn't mind killing, and will sometimes kill for reasons that wouldn't deserve death (like hurt pride), but it won't kill for the sake of killing.
    Korgan however enjoys nothing quite like a bloodbath. He has limits (he won't murder children, for example) but he's still CE to the core

    ArctodusThacoBellZaramMaldovarSkatan
  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,077
    edited July 2017
    It's no secret that one hamster needs at the very least an area of 1m² with a height of 60cm and a couple of extra floors to live a healthy life.


    But Boo is miniature giant space hamster, and should be accustomed to crushing pressure of distant stars.
    :)

    Balrog99ThacoBellsemiticgoddessDreadKhan
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @Kamigoroshi
    Minsc? Evil? That's a joke right, and not a very good one. I suppose you could justify Chaotic Neutral, but Minsc IS good at heart, he just suffered brain damage and has poor judgement and you absolutely cannot justify Chaotic Evil. Such acquisitions are even more crazy than Minsc is.

    ThacoBell
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147

    @Kamigoroshi
    Minsc? Evil? That's a joke right, and not a very good one. I suppose you could justify Chaotic Neutral, but Minsc IS good at heart, he just suffered brain damage and has poor judgement and you absolutely cannot justify Chaotic Evil. Such acquisitions are even more crazy than Minsc is.

    Many years ago (because I never ever have anything to do with Minsc now) I took Minsc. He went berserk when we met the gnoll who tells you about Dynaheir, killed the gnoll and killed party members. Low level party, not that great at playing the game as it was early days.

    Isn't that chaotic evil?

    How many despots have carried out evil acts because they were convinced it was the "good" thing to do?
    So is the motivation that important in the long run when the end result is still dead bodies?

    Being "good at heart" means very, very little when you are persuing innocents and trying to chop them in half with a great sword.

    I tend to judge by actions not intentions, Minsc being able to turn on you marks him as evil in my book. Perhaps the worse kind as it's mindless and uncontrolable.

    (that being said, I have little regard for the whole good/evil dichotomy that's used in BG or in real life)

    KamigoroshiDreadKhanOrlonKronsteenArdul
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    edited August 2017
    I'm now beginning to realize that this thread was a bad idea.

    Post edited by ZaramMaldovar on
    DreadKhanShikaoThacoBellKilivitz
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859

    I'm now beginning to realize that his thread was a bad idea.

    Keldorn should be Lawful Evil, becauee reasons!

    ZaramMaldovarThacoBell
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623

    @Kamigoroshi
    Minsc? Evil? That's a joke right, and not a very good one. I suppose you could justify Chaotic Neutral, but Minsc IS good at heart, he just suffered brain damage and has poor judgement and you absolutely cannot justify Chaotic Evil. Such acquisitions are even more crazy than Minsc is.

    Many years ago (because I never ever have anything to do with Minsc now) I took Minsc. He went berserk when we met the gnoll who tells you about Dynaheir, killed the gnoll and killed party members. Low level party, not that great at playing the game as it was early days.

    Isn't that chaotic evil?

    How many despots have carried out evil acts because they were convinced it was the "good" thing to do?
    So is the motivation that important in the long run when the end result is still dead bodies?

    Being "good at heart" means very, very little when you are persuing innocents and trying to chop them in half with a great sword.

    I tend to judge by actions not intentions, Minsc being able to turn on you marks him as evil in my book. Perhaps the worse kind as it's mindless and uncontrolable.

    (that being said, I have little regard for the whole good/evil dichotomy that's used in BG or in real life)
    Not comparible. Minsc enters psychosis when he berserks, and well, lets be honest, also at other times. Despots, on the other hand, often have the opposite, extreme narcissism; intelligent thought devoid of emotion.

    ZaramMaldovarThacoBell
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,272
    @DreadKhan
    Lol. Although seriously while I think an argument can be absolutely be made for Lawful Neutral, Keldorn's alignment is ok where it is.

    Arguments for Lawful Neutral
    Drow burning on a stake? It must be evil, let it burn...and let's enjoy it while we're at it. This can't be seen as Evil really, only judgemental. Almost all Drow are evil, therefore Viconia MUST be evil (although she IS, but isn't the point). Keldorn might be seen as racist in this instance, but most people are towards Drow, so we can't really see this as inherently evil.

    Keldorn is an Inquistor, from history we know they are extremely tempermental and judgemental. While Inquistors can absolutely be Lawful Evil (at least according to history), Keldorn worships Torm and tries his best to do good, he is at the very worst, Lawful Neutral.

    OrlonKronsteenThacoBell
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    Branwen always struck me as more Neutral Good than Neutral.

    Garrick seems more Chaotic Good, but that's not available for bards.

    OrlonKronsteenThacoBell
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 863

    Corwin ...everything about Corwin screams Lawful Neutral with the volume of Sam Kinison.

    Yep, like how she's more than happy to escort a vile blackguard around for the whole game.
    tbone1 said:

    Branwen always struck me as more Neutral Good than Neutral

    Absolutely. Her comments and her reaction to rep increases are those of a good character. IIRC true neutral characters are supposed to get grumpy after your rep reaches a certain point (that contrived 'need for balance' that's coded into the D&D alignment system).

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,210

    @Kamigoroshi
    Minsc? Evil? That's a joke right, and not a very good one. I suppose you could justify Chaotic Neutral, but Minsc IS good at heart, he just suffered brain damage and has poor judgement and you absolutely cannot justify Chaotic Evil. Such acquisitions are even more crazy than Minsc is.

    Many years ago (because I never ever have anything to do with Minsc now) I took Minsc. He went berserk when we met the gnoll who tells you about Dynaheir, killed the gnoll and killed party members. Low level party, not that great at playing the game as it was early days.

    Isn't that chaotic evil?

    How many despots have carried out evil acts because they were convinced it was the "good" thing to do?
    So is the motivation that important in the long run when the end result is still dead bodies?

    Being "good at heart" means very, very little when you are persuing innocents and trying to chop them in half with a great sword.

    I tend to judge by actions not intentions, Minsc being able to turn on you marks him as evil in my book. Perhaps the worse kind as it's mindless and uncontrolable.

    (that being said, I have little regard for the whole good/evil dichotomy that's used in BG or in real life)
    Intent counts for A LOT though, Minsc isn't going out of his way to hurt innocents, but he loses control when he beserks. There is a nice moment in BG2 where if Minsc goes into beserk while Keldorn is in the party, Keldorn is able to talk him down.

    ZaramMaldovarArtona
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    Objection. Minsc very actively goes out of his way to hurt innocents left and right. All it takes for him is to judge people as evil based on... on... well... nothing in particular, really. Point in case: as long as you manage pissing him off you're the worst evil in the world. Buttkickin' for goriness!

    Another innocent bites the dust~
    Another innocent bites the dust~
    And another innocent gone, and another innocent gone~
    Another innocent bites the dust~
    Hey, Minsc gonna get you, too~
    Another innocent bites the dust~

    Yeah hey hey hey yeaaaah~~~

    tbone1UnderstandMouseMagic
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996

    Objection. Minsc very actively goes out of his way to hurt innocents left and right. All it takes for him is to judge people as evil based on... on... well... nothing in particular, really. Point in case: as long as you manage pissing him off you're the worst evil in the world. Buttkickin' for goriness!

    Another innocent bites the dust~
    Another innocent bites the dust~
    And another innocent gone, and another innocent gone~
    Another innocent bites the dust~
    Hey, Minsc gonna get you, too~
    Another innocent bites the dust~

    Yeah hey hey hey yeaaaah~~~

    Bravo! Any chance of using "Fat Bottom Girls" for Branwen?

    Or am I revealing too much?


    KamigoroshiPapa_LouThacoBellDreadKhan
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    tbone1 said:

    Objection. Minsc very actively goes out of his way to hurt innocents left and right. All it takes for him is to judge people as evil based on... on... well... nothing in particular, really. Point in case: as long as you manage pissing him off you're the worst evil in the world. Buttkickin' for goriness!

    Another innocent bites the dust~
    Another innocent bites the dust~
    And another innocent gone, and another innocent gone~
    Another innocent bites the dust~
    Hey, Minsc gonna get you, too~
    Another innocent bites the dust~

    Yeah hey hey hey yeaaaah~~~

    Bravo! Any chance of using "Fat Bottom Girls" for Branwen?

    Or am I revealing too much?




    ...did you just use Branwen and revealing together?

    ZaramMaldovartbone1
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    tbone1 said:



    Bravo! Any chance of using "Fat Bottom Girls" for Branwen?

    Or am I revealing too much?

    I am fairly sure she already appeared in adventurers illustrated as a cover girl, so don't sweat it.

    tbone1
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,996
    DreadKhan said:

    ...did you just use Branwen and revealing together?

    Yyyyyyep!!!

    DreadKhan
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