Good 'n' Evil

darko1beamdog

Hello there.

I'm new to Baldur's Gate and still green on a lot of things despite completing the game on normal once.

Does anybody know what happens if you roll a Blackguard (or any class that's inherently evil) and do only good deeds? Do you suffer penalties or can you somehow roleplay your butt out of evil and thus have a more interesting experience?

I will be grateful for insight into this matter.

Thanks in advance.

Shikao

Unfortunately BG series clearly steers you towards being good, because of how reputation system works. There are no penalties for being good (as in high rep) for good or evil characters, being evil (as in low rep) on the other hand is quite bad for all characters =/

darko1beamdog

Thanks for the reply.

So does the reputation system work independantly of alignment, or do you, after doing good deeds as a Blackguard for instance, automatically "raise" your alignment to the neutral or even good ones?

PaulaMigrate

My opinion on this may differ from others, but I always felt about it like this
- the *evil* that is in your character is mostly how others see you. You are drow or Blackguard or a red wizard from Thay - or bhaalspawn >>> so you are evil.

It is always part of at least my roleplay to have a character who *appears* evil but still can do the *right* things.
If you play the trilogy to the very end, to the ToB finale, you will see that in the end it's your decisions and your way you chose through the game that counts, not some setting that has a lot to do with prejudice.
Also, the game is not very consequentual in applying that good or evil concept. A PC killing innocents and getting a bad reputation may be evil or he may just be stupid. Evil may be the good-doer who is a wolf in sheeps clothing, while the openly acting villain is just so stupid as let public opinion grow against him.

Evil or good is how others feel about you and may have little or nothing to do with how you conduct yourself. Just the other way round, nothing prevents a lawful good character to drench the Sword Coast is blood.

darko1beamdog

Thanks very much for the comment, PaulaMigrate.

I was under the impression that the alignment system was just a way to limit your conduct in accordance to what the descriptions state.
This was further backed by certain evil characters leaving my group after I've hit some "good" threshold, reputation-wise.

Shikao

darko1beamdog said:

Thanks for the reply.

So does the reputation system work independantly of alignment, or do you, after doing good deeds as a Blackguard for instance, automatically "raise" your alignment to the neutral or even good ones?

As far as I know there are no option to 'raise' your alignment for CHARNAME, but the opposite is possible in SoD.
Planescape Torment has it much better imo - you start as True Neutral and your alignment changes accordingly to your deeds.

Grum

It means nothing for the class. I once played a Blackguard who was like Vhailor. Purge all evil. Ended up with 20 rep with no issue. Killed Winski at the end and took a rep nose dive. Neither made any mechanical difference

PaulaMigrate

darko1beamdog said:

Thanks very much for the comment, PaulaMigrate.

I was under the impression that the alignment system was just a way to limit your conduct in accordance to what the descriptions state.
This was further backed by certain evil characters leaving my group after I've hit some "good" threshold, reputation-wise.

The evil NPCs leaving...that is something that never made sense for me, at least not for some of them.
Viconia and Edwin, to name some - they come as outsiders to the Sword Coast. A company provides them shelter against a hostile surrounding. What can be better for them than a high reputation party? Who would harrass a drow walking besides a shining paladin? On the other hand, joining an evil party would make Viconia as hunted and despised as before, so where is her gain? And neither Viconia nor Edwin give a damn about what the peasants of that babaric lands think about the protagonist.

The good thing is, you can easily give those companions
opcode = 360 i.e Ignore reputation
and you play the game as you decide and they will not leave.

darko1beamdog

Thanks for shedding light on the subject, everybody. Really appreciate it.
Have a very nice day.

jsaving

If you want to play a game where actions affect alignment, you might consider taking a look at PST EE.

darko1beamdog

jsaving said:

If you want to play a game where actions affect alignment, you might consider taking a look at PST EE.

Thanks. I'll definitely check it out once it's on a GOG sale.

tbone1

Remember, being evil does not always mean doing the evil thing. Maybe you don't want your village overrun by orcs. Maybe by saving a child from kidnappers you are treated like a hero, which is more suited to your long-term purposes.

Unfortunately, computers insist on clear, well-defined ideas so the improvisation that is required with PnP can't always translate to a game.

And at least there IS a system which checks actions vs alignment, however flawed it may be.

fateless

Tbone has a point.

Keep in mind that Sarevok is quite evil but for much of the BG story he's actually seen by the masses more as a semi-benevolent merchant or kind of a hero type working hard to come to the rescue of the tormented city with nobody realizing he's causing much of that torment.

darko1beamdog

fateless said:

Tbone has a point.

Keep in mind that Sarevok is quite evil but for much of the BG story he's actually seen by the masses more as a semi-benevolent merchant or kind of a hero type working hard to come to the rescue of the tormented city with nobody realizing he's causing much of that torment.

I personally think the karma system in Fallout is better. Or the flexible alignment system in PST EE which changes according to your actions (as mentioned by jsaving).

It may only be a box of text, but it goes a long way. Especially for someone as pedantic and OCD-ridden as I am.
I dislike the idea of having "evil" (or good) pinned to your character sheet regardless of whether you act like it or not. It makes it seem precisely as you and tbone1 said - in terms of character motivation.
And the fact that the alignment doesn't change with your actions could very well hint to all of your behavior conforming to your transparent or concealed long term "goal", which is in line with your characters moral compass (aka alignment).
The problem with this is that there's no apparent room for change within a character.

Of course there are exceptions to the non-alignment change rule in BG II - Viconia and Sarevok.
My opinion is that they should have extended this kind of influence your character may have on others to every companion.
The ability to corrupt or enlighten someone would add to the overall depth, I believe, further strenghtening the bond your character has with the ones you recruit.

This is just an opinion and I know it's not going to happen, but I appreciate the discussion and views others might have on the subject matter.