You can't do that to anyone, that's the point. If you can do very nasty things to men but not to women, then your point is relevant. This isn't about what you can and can't do in a game, it's about why you can do some things to some entities but not to others. The point is it makes the game inconsistent.
Do we add this to the "reasons to buy BG:EE" thread now?
I find Tenya easy to accidently kill before she turns back neutral when you press her to find out what is going on. I have definitely hit with a critical and accidently wiped her out multiple times. That is a spot where I quick save to avoid that accidental outcome.
I think that there's an extremely interesting new trend in modding that caters to all.
Now if you can remember back to the hot coffee incident in GTA3, developers need to be extremely careful of the features that they include in a game. Although there was no legitimate way to access the content without modifying the game files, rockstar nonetheless developed a sex minigame, including (terrible) animations and full nudity.
Despite this, due to the fact that the content was included on the game disc and easily accessible with a simple online download, rockstar were found guilty and got into tons of trouble. Since that event, developers have had to be extremely careful of the content they include in games. The inclusion of a single feature such as hot coffee can dramatically alter the rating of the game and the legality of its sale.
Fast forward to today, games like Skyrim neatly bypass the issue. In Skyrim, and like all other bethesda games, children are invulnerable. No fusrodah, no stabbing, no fire allowed. Regardless of the rationale behind that design decision, it protects the developers from any difficulties with game rating by the ESRB or whatever ratings boards are in each country. However by including modding frameworks with the game, it allows for fans to expand and change the game into other morally questionable area. The end result; bethesda give a sly wink to their community. Go nuts, enjoy the game.
Now I realise that ingame nudity, sex, and the killing of children is of poor taste, but lets be honest here, we're talking about a video game. Depiction of this stuff in a fictional, digital environment is a infinitely better than in real life.
I can see both sides of the issue here, personally, and I say this speaking as a proud parent, seeing small children gibbed by a fireball is hilarious (and those kids in Fallout who kept pick pocketing me deserved what they stole my dynamite).
At the same time, I can see why someone might have an issue with the moral implications of their character murdering children, even accidentally. There are things people can just not enjoy.
Perhaps a "realism" toggle might be an idea, so people can decide if they'd rather go "Fallout" or.... Well, the other 99% of games that have immortal children.
Don't use AoEs then and you won't accidentally kill anything. I don't understand how I can play through the entire game without killing a single innocent NPC, but other people can't.
I did kill anyone in Athkatla once after finishing all the quests. I don't remember invincible NPCs even Belt in the tutorial, and Arkanis Gath can be killed. And that is the way it should be...
In fact, there's even a BG1 quest where you're sent to kill a twelve year old,
and you won't lose reputation because Tenya is not an innocent.
The kid uses a big-boobed adult sprite though (for casting and combat animations, I think). It's so disturbing to hear that childish voice coming from someone who looks like a grown woman.
I've always considered her a teenager (she was a cleric of Umberlee afterall) not a "real" child.
You can definitely kill children in BG2. When I was playing Shadows over Soubar and realized that my mage would have to wear armor that would prevent him from using his spells in order to continue the quest, I loaded and then slaughtered every man, woman, and child in the town to pay them back for wasting my time.
I believe in some countries it is actually illegal to portray the killing of children (I am too lazy to check, but I believe one such country is Germany?), even in pixellated form. This is one of the major reasons why Morrowind or Oblivion, for example, have no children at all by default; to avoid the higher ratings and censorship in certain markets.
Maybe if they really want to include this feature in those countries they can make some excuse about why they aren't 'really' children but are really halflings in disguise, or something.
@Awong124 if you go this way why cant my evil guys do very nasty things to every female we came across on our rampaging journey....
Apparently there are some Japanese games where you can. I've never played them, but they were in the news once a few years ago when some conservative Republican decided to promote these otherwise obscure games by telling major news stations how horrible they were.
I'm sure this was by design, but I was playing Icewind Dale in anticipation for Baldur's Gate: EE and I noticed that children cannot be killed.
Does Icewind Dale have the Shapeshift spell? If so, cast Shapeshift and then transform yourself into a mind flayer. In that form you should be able to kill almost any otherwise invincible character. At least you can in Baldur's Gate.
I remember using a flamethrower on those kids that would steal from you in the Den from Fallout 2. They would dance around like little living torches for a few seconds, then they would collapse in a burnt-out heap of ashes.
I remember a critical hit to their eyes being described as the eye bursting like a ripe tomato.
In other words, not only could you kill kids, but killing them gave you some of the most cringe-inducingly horrific critical hit descriptions in the game.
Good times. A time when developers had some balls. I salute the brutal killing of kids in games if for no other reason than that it serves as a huge middle finger to hypersensitive politicians and censors everywhere.
As do in game sex and homosexuality in recent RPGs. I love seeing and hearing all the outraged morally offended losers complaining about it. You know what, one time someone told me that Civilization games were just training games to become terrorists and blow people up. I found it difficult to controll my desire to harm that person IRL, and no, that's not because games make me violent, its because stupid people like that severely offend me.
@Mungri and the irony is that by decrying games for being violent all they're doing is giving them a lot of free advertising. I once read a news article that was basically a list of the top goriest video games of all time. The slant of the article was such that I could tell the author really hated the idea of these games and was trying to caution parents about how bad they were. The article said that some of the games had been banned in certain stores because of their level of violence, but it named the stores that still sold them and seemed to be trying to compel readers to boycott those stores in protest, which made the comments section absolutely hilarious. Nearly all the comments were from gamers thanking the article for telling them what the best games were and where they could buy them and in some cases recommending others that had not made the list.
Outside of Baldur's Gate and Nashkel (where I recall there being children playing) are there really enough children in game for you to even find? I mean I guess the halfling village might have some.
There are a fair amount of children inside buildings in Beregost as well iirc, also some in Ulgoth's Beard, and some on the TotSC island.. but those are trickier to spare.
Can't help but agree with those who find such a restriction ridiculous. Children's death is sometimes depicted in movies, in books and in other works of art. It does happen, and trying to deny that in such a form leads to the inconsistency of the game's world. Naturally, some people would like to protect their own children from violence in the games, but that's what parental control is for. And really, just think about it - when the player wipes out whole villages (yes, Nexlit, I'm thinking of you here), it's all fine and dandy, but when a stray AoE is being launched at a family passing by, we have to face all these bizarre restrictions. Gosh.
Comments
You can't do that to anyone, that's the point. If you can do very nasty things to men but not to women, then your point is relevant. This isn't about what you can and can't do in a game, it's about why you can do some things to some entities but not to others. The point is it makes the game inconsistent.
Hey I have a newsflash for you, children can die, and they do die in our present world.
Now if you can remember back to the hot coffee incident in GTA3, developers need to be extremely careful of the features that they include in a game. Although there was no legitimate way to access the content without modifying the game files, rockstar nonetheless developed a sex minigame, including (terrible) animations and full nudity.
Despite this, due to the fact that the content was included on the game disc and easily accessible with a simple online download, rockstar were found guilty and got into tons of trouble. Since that event, developers have had to be extremely careful of the content they include in games. The inclusion of a single feature such as hot coffee can dramatically alter the rating of the game and the legality of its sale.
Fast forward to today, games like Skyrim neatly bypass the issue. In Skyrim, and like all other bethesda games, children are invulnerable. No fusrodah, no stabbing, no fire allowed. Regardless of the rationale behind that design decision, it protects the developers from any difficulties with game rating by the ESRB or whatever ratings boards are in each country. However by including modding frameworks with the game, it allows for fans to expand and change the game into other morally questionable area. The end result; bethesda give a sly wink to their community. Go nuts, enjoy the game.
Now I realise that ingame nudity, sex, and the killing of children is of poor taste, but lets be honest here, we're talking about a video game. Depiction of this stuff in a fictional, digital environment is a infinitely better than in real life.
And sometimes it's just downright halarious
At the same time, I can see why someone might have an issue with the moral implications of their character murdering children, even accidentally. There are things people can just not enjoy.
Perhaps a "realism" toggle might be an idea, so people can decide if they'd rather go "Fallout" or.... Well, the other 99% of games that have immortal children.
I remember a critical hit to their eyes being described as the eye bursting like a ripe tomato.
In other words, not only could you kill kids, but killing them gave you some of the most cringe-inducingly horrific critical hit descriptions in the game.
Good times. A time when developers had some balls. I salute the brutal killing of kids in games if for no other reason than that it serves as a huge middle finger to hypersensitive politicians and censors everywhere.