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Invincible Children

HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
in Archive (General Discussion)
Just an observation...

I'm sure this was by design, but I was playing Icewind Dale in anticipation for Baldur's Gate: EE and I noticed that children cannot be killed. Found this out by casting an area of effect spell that accidentally netted one. They turn hostile but can't die. Interesting change by the developers and I'm sure there was reason behind it (a statement against violence against children maybe?). In the original Baldur's Gate, you can kill anything from cats to dogs to women to children to Gnolls. I'm not sure if BG2 is the same or different, but since it came out after IWD I'm betting the No Child Death mechanic was passed on. Now my goal is to get a kid in my party, since they can't die. Lol.
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Comments

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    edited November 2012
    It's the same in all the Bethesda games (Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, etc.).

    Here's an interesting article I read a while back, though I don't agree with the author's view:
    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2011/09/03/editorial-do-you-want-to-kill-children

  • RazorRazor Member Posts: 436
    edited November 2012
    About this matter, never thought about it. And dont really care, one way or another. But maybe games shouldnt have invincible children since its not real... But I dont rly care, it IS a game.

    There is this mod for Skyrim to kill children lol its not pretty but well its a game anyway Not for the faint of heart.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I thought it had to do with the WotC stipulating that children can not be killed in there gaming campaigns; part of their licence agreement.
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    No sane person would kill a kid in the real world, or think that because you can kill one in a game, it promotes the harming of one for real. I see games like this as stories, and in books, kids can die. Hell in Walking Dead, a TV show, kids die played by real actors. These are just sprites. I think its kind of dumb, and the only reason I can see behind it is that they're afraid little kids will play these games and get some kind of impression by doing that. But whatever. That's what parents are for.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    If I cast finger of death on a child in a dnd setting and it fails its save, then by the rules of the game it should die or I would feel heavily cheated.

    Why is it ok to go around killing fantasy people, but killing fantasy children is completely unacceptable?

    Either they should both be allowed, or both should be disallowed. There is no ethical difference over the age of the fantasy character.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    Hmm, I wasn't aware that this is an issue, because I always roleplay my goody-two-shoes self. I have never cast a damage aoe in a populated area. If there are innocents around, I just don't do it, even though some town and inn fights get much harder because of my own self-imposed rule.

    It's interesting to read about it, though.
  • RazorRazor Member Posts: 436
    edited November 2012
    Agree, but what did you quote me for?

    Ok... heres the article anyway: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2011/09/03/editorial-do-you-want-to-kill-children
  • KirkorKirkor Member Posts: 700
    edited November 2012
    Razor said:

    Agree, but what did you quote me for?

    I like quoting :P


    Wait.
    I quoted not the person I wanted :P
    Sorry :P
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    belgarathmth said:

    Hmm, I wasn't aware that this is an issue, because I always roleplay my goody-two-shoes self. I have never cast a damage aoe in a populated area. If there are innocents around, I just don't do it, even though some town and inn fights get much harder because of my own self-imposed rule.

    It's interesting to read about it, though.

    Have you honestly never had the cowled wizards pop up on you in BG2? I find that astonishing.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Mungri, the first time I played, I had them appear one time and give me a warning. I said, Oh, yes, sirs, I'm so sorry, sirs, and I never cast without a license again. I'm that way in real life, too.

    Now that I know that licenses can be obtained in the Government Building, and how much they cost, I always start every game by selling everything from Irenicus' dungeon, and making a beeline for the Government Building to buy a license. It's the first order of business in every run.
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    This thread has put the idea into my head the idea to harm imaginary children in a video game... Just to see if they are invincible or not... If not they will die... If they are invincible, have I caused them pain?

    This thread is promoting the harming of imaginary children! We must stop this wild fantasy before an imaginary child is hurt!

    Shame on you @HaHaCharade, for putting an imaginary child in harms way! I will be sending the social services to remove all the imaginary children from your laptop so that they can be placed on my USB Stick orphanage for the violently harmed or accidently fireballed...
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    But the Cowles wizards are evil, and you should crush every last one of them! Unfortunately I am not allowed to take that liscense for spellcasting because I am chaotic, and I would rather cast magic at my hearts content without paying, and simply slay all who oppose me.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    Hm.. iirc children can be killed in BG2 as well. There's a mod that introduces a sword you can get fairly early on, but leaves out that it belongs to a Marilith who eventually comes to Athkatla looking for it - and some of the spells loosed in that encounter killed quite a few bystanders, including children.

    Haven't looked into the IWD code, but if it's not hardcoded it shouldn't be that hard to make the children there mortal too.
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    Anduin said:

    This thread has put the idea into my head the idea to harm imaginary children in a video game... Just to see if they are invincible or not... If not they will die... If they are invincible, have I caused them pain?

    This thread is promoting the harming of imaginary children! We must stop this wild fantasy before an imaginary child is hurt!

    Shame on you @HaHaCharade, for putting an imaginary child in harms way! I will be sending the social services to remove all the imaginary children from your laptop so that they can be placed on my USB Stick orphanage for the violently harmed or accidently fireballed...

    The imaginary Social Services?
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    @HaHaCharade Yes. The Imaginary Social Services.

    They get a bum wrap for taking away imaginary children from imaginary families who should really know better... Can't reveal names for legal reasons... But one mother allowed a child to wander in the forests south of Beregost unattended! Of course the child was taken into care... And now lives happily on PC along many other children left homeless by a Simcity disaster initiated by a careless, uncaring player...
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    Anduin said:

    @HaHaCharade Yes. The Imaginary Social Services.

    They get a bum wrap for taking away imaginary children from imaginary families who should really know better... Can't reveal names for legal reasons... But one mother allowed a child to wander in the forests south of Beregost unattended! Of course the child was taken into care... And now lives happily on PC along many other children left homeless by a Simcity disaster initiated by a careless, uncaring player...

    Oh that annoying kid that was collecting berries to help feed his family? I think Xzar used Larloch's Minor Drain on him. It seemed appropriate since he was in fact, a minor.
  • BalquoBalquo Member, Developer Posts: 2,746
    Children can be killed in BG1 and BG:EE.
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    edited November 2012
    Balquo said:

    Children can be killed in BG1 and BG:EE.

    In fact, there's even a BG1 quest where you're sent to kill a twelve year old,
    and you won't lose reputation because Tenya is not an innocent.

    The kid uses a big-boobed adult sprite though (for casting and combat animations, I think). It's so disturbing to hear that childish voice coming from someone who looks like a grown woman.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    edited November 2012
    I never killed Tenya, though she is evil, she seemed to be innocent? It was the bad fishermen that stole her holy symbol or something.

    Go go power of non-lawful neutrality!
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I never killed Tenya either.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    I believe in some countries it is actually illegal to portray the killing of children (I am too lazy to check, but I believe one such country is Germany?), even in pixellated form. This is one of the major reasons why Morrowind or Oblivion, for example, have no children at all by default; to avoid the higher ratings and censorship in certain markets.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    In Germany any game with blood is illegal. Most games have to release blood-less versions to get approval for release there. They are OTT with censorship.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    Didn't Australia censor one game's blood with rainbows? It's country-to-country policies I guess...
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited November 2012
    I dont like the "realness" to kill children at all. No need to see dying and slaugthered kids for me... when i think a second more about this, it´s the first time i agree with a restriction in games.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    NWN_babaYaga said:

    I dont like the "realness" to kill children at all. No need to see dying and slaugthered kids for me... when i think a second more about this, it´s the first time i agree with a restriction in games.

    Then they should not include them at all.
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    All you see is pixels being gibbed into little bitty pieces. If you don't want to see it, then don't kill the fantasy children.
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    @Awong124 if you go this way why cant my evil guys do very nasty things to every female we came across on our rampaging journey....
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