iwd anti-powergaming party
marcos
Member Posts: 72
I'm thinking of playing IWDEE again, this time with an anti-powergaming party. Some rules:
1. No kits (with the exception of Wizard schools, which were in the original IWD).
2. Only one score per character of 18.
3. No Half-Orcs; no monks, barbarians, or sorcerers.
My one concession to power-gaming: a multi-classed thief. I just can't seem to swallow a single class.
A question, though: Which is less power-gamey: A cleric or a fighter/cleric? I've played the game with a single-class cleric before, and she wiped up the Undead in the Severed Hand single-handedly. Boring. I was hoping that multi-classing her might slow her down a bit.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
1. No kits (with the exception of Wizard schools, which were in the original IWD).
2. Only one score per character of 18.
3. No Half-Orcs; no monks, barbarians, or sorcerers.
My one concession to power-gaming: a multi-classed thief. I just can't seem to swallow a single class.
A question, though: Which is less power-gamey: A cleric or a fighter/cleric? I've played the game with a single-class cleric before, and she wiped up the Undead in the Severed Hand single-handedly. Boring. I was hoping that multi-classing her might slow her down a bit.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
4
Comments
#1 no class mixing whatsoever with fighter in it, so that includes your fighter/cleric, no fighter/mages, no fighter/thieves, no fighter anything, and no dual classing with fighter period, having those fighter levels mixed in with classes that don't get those extra attacks per round and the good to hit really help bring up the power level of those secondary classes
#2 if you must have a multi class thief, just make sure again it's not a fighter/thief, fighter/thieves are pretty damn great especially an elf fighter/thief using longbows, complete carnage, if you must multi-class or dual for that matter, try out the cleric/thief, only gnomes can be cleric thieves for a multi class ( half-orc can to but you said no half-orcs ) so the only other option is human dual classing
#3 make a team of six, if you make a smaller team, then you are going to sky rocket in levels comparatively, unless you don't mind that
#4 also, what you could do it take the premade IWD team that comes with IWD EE, their stats aren't optimized to power game levels ( they only have the odd 18 here or there ) but they do have some class kits ( like the bersker and undead hunter ) so for those two classes you can just remake them and make one a fighter ( perhaps dwarf ) and one a paladin
#5 don't bring along any druids or bards, the bard songs in IWD are A LOT better than their BG counterpart and druids have even more amazing spells in IWD than their BG counterpart as well, these two class types are very VERY strong in IWD
for a team idea, mayhaps you could go with something like this:
1- human paladin
2- dwarf fighter
3- half-elf ranger ( or possibly even elf )
4- (any race) cleric ( although halflings and gnomes only get a max of 17 to their WIS )
5- gnome cleric/thief
6- elf mage or elf enchanter or human mage or human ( specialist mage )
You could also pick an enchanter mage-wise, because it will force you to be creative in your spell selection, since you'll have no evocation spells. Against the hordes of undeads you'll face, your mage will likely be relagated to support duty, because charming undeads is not something recommended. Although, even in support role, your mage can become a really important asset in your game. It just forces you to look deeper into the spell book to use other things than fireballs and magic missiles.
I also used a multi cleric/thief in my last run. While I think it becomes a very, very nasty backstabber later in the game, it's still a less powergaming choice than any other multi in the game, because of the heavy item restriction you have to deal with.
so making a non power gaming party in IWD gives it the feel that you are using joinable NPCs instead of just pregenerated children of the gods that will raze destruction across the land
OTOH, best way to use a thief is to make him/her a dual-class. After they reach level 13 (assuming a game played on normal), after finishing up Uper Dorn's Deep, there are no more traps to be had, so dual-classing is best done then, as there are plenty of quests (especially in Wyrm's Tooth Glacier) to recover thieving skills in no time. My favorite is dual-class Thief/Specialist Mage. Possible unfortunately only in the original non-baldurized version of the game.
I then reverted back to playing Hard difficulty but with gimped classes such as Fallen Paladin and pure class thief, cleric, and specialized wizard. The game was no longer a tedious chore, but now, again, an immersive adventure.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/706846#Comment_706846
My next run (after I finish my two ongoing runs) is going to be all single class non-warriors:
Bard
Monk
Swashbuckler (Thief kit)
Cleric
Shaman (spontaneous casting Druid)
Sorcerer
Dwarf Berserker
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric
Dwarf Fighter/Cleric
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist
Members of a Dwarven clan with an adopted gnome. Alternatively, you could make the clerics and thief not multiclassed if thats too "power-gamey" for you and drop the Gnome for another Dwarf fighter type. Though a fighter/mage isn't really THAT powerful in IWD with the lack of available scrolls. A sorcerer is far more powerful simply because they can choose what spells they want rather than waiting to find something useful.
Were I to start another game, I'd probably avoid using kits or any classes from BG2 along with no dual-wielding. With that in mind, my party would probably look like:
Dwarf Fighter
Human Paladin
Elf Fighter/Thief
Elf Druid
Half-Elf Bard
Gnome Illusionist/Cleric
Reasonably well-rounded without having to dual-class, and allows full access to class-specific quests and dialogues.
@sarevok57 had some great advice (as usual). If you're going for vanilla IWD flavor, you're doing it right. If you're looking for a challenge somewhat at the expense of vanilla flavor, you might consider (as others have hinted) using some of the more lackluster kits available. For instance, un-kitted Bards in IWD are very powerful due to their large repertoire of songs. Jester, on the other hand? Not so great. Instead of a Ranger take a Beast Master. That sort of thing.
I understand why an un-kitted single-class Thief is unappealing to you. In IWD they're just not needed because you'll find yourself rolling in extra thieving points you don't need and they'll seemingly plateau in effectiveness fairly early on. I agree that if you want something more useful without being overpowered, you should go for a Gnomish Cleric/Thief. Sanctuary + Find Traps is a neat ability without being OP, should make for some fun.
I wish I had a good suggestion for Mage kits. I tend to stay away from those in IWD due to the whole "two opposition schools" deal. In IWD 1.0 they functioned just like in Baldur's Gate, and that's what I played for yeeeeaaaars so I just can't wrap my head around it.
Dwarf Barbarian (Axe/Sword + Shield Style)
Half-Elf Blade
Half-Elf Avenger
Dwarf Cleric of Lathander
Gnome Assassin
Human Invoker
In my previous IWD games, I've had at least 3 fighter-type characters that made the game way too easy after a while. Since the original game wasn't balanced around dual-wielding, a half-orc barbarian equipped with two weapons that offer either damage resistance or bonus APR (no matter how fun that could be) was an express ticket to easy mode. Certain kits like Dwarven Defender or Archer also seemed to tip the balance a bit too strongly in my favor.
With this new party, I have to tailor party tactics in ways distinct to each encounter. Which has added a new element of challenge and makes the game a lot of fun.
ETA: I'm also keeping difficulty at "normal" setting to avoid any bonus XP.
I've always viewed IWD as a sort of spiritual prequel to BG1, so I always try to keep my party members' stats in line with those of BG1 NPCs.
Here are a few characters from my most recent IWD playthrough.
A barbarian with low (no HP bonus, except when raging) con:
My party leader, I use her mainly as an archer and a flanker, occasionally raging and rushing head-on into combat only as necessary.
A cleric with low wisd:
One of my favorite character creations, he uses the non-verbal male voice-set. Outside of casting spells, he's fervently devoted to combat, and the rest of my (rather unscrupulous) party members are only too willing to allow him to walk at the head of the party and draw arrow fire.
A thief (multi) with average dext:
The most physically powerful (str and con) member of my party, this is counterbalanced somewhat by her armor restrictions as a thief.
Ultimately, at the entrance of the Dragon's Eye I quitted as because of their squishiness, I failed to survive the battle at the entrance of the Dragon's Eye cave system and gave up after several retries.
My first IWD 2.5 party will have better stats hopefully, though I intend to use the IWD NPC party and that's not exactly power-gaming, to use a euphemism. My greatest concern is that it's adviced to make your PC the party leader for the triggering of banters but the combination of classes is such, that a cleric is the one best fitting in and I don't like a cleric to be party leader, so maybe I'll go for a fighter-cleric.
Unfortunately, some of the game's most powerful items are only available with a lucky roll and you'll never even know you missed them if the roll doesn't go your way. Because of this, people often consult FAQs/tables to see where those drops are and then use an editor to ensure they get the most desirable item. (Or alternatively, there are various mods that just give you the best item or let you choose which item to get.)
Going to play with whatever initial stat array is given at character creation. Party should be okay once xp starts really climbing, but the initial stretch of the game should feel pretty rough.
If we had data on how the game calculated random numbers, then RNG manipulation could theoretically let us control attack rolls and saves and such.